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A comparison between Challengers

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Posted by Anonymous on Sunday, September 19, 2004 3:23 PM
I believe the reason the Lionel Challenger pulls so little is it's dragging that 1 1/4 pound tender! [:0] One of the guys in my local club has one, and he plans on putting a plastic shell on the tender to lighten it...

That Bowser kit looks nice, I wonder how it runs?

And as far as riveting, it's not so much that I don't know how to install pop-rivets, as where the heck do I get a pop rivet tool thingy! [B)]
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Posted by Anonymous on Sunday, September 19, 2004 3:23 PM
I believe the reason the Lionel Challenger pulls so little is it's dragging that 1 1/4 pound tender! [:0] One of the guys in my local club has one, and he plans on putting a plastic shell on the tender to lighten it...

That Bowser kit looks nice, I wonder how it runs?

And as far as riveting, it's not so much that I don't know how to install pop-rivets, as where the heck do I get a pop rivet tool thingy! [B)]
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Posted by Anonymous on Sunday, September 19, 2004 3:51 PM
twhite Stated:
Banger1: 32 cars and you had to do all THAT? Funny, my Rivarossi Allegheny will do that and more up my 2.4 WITHOUT traction tires, and my BLI AC-5 does that and more regularly, just out of the box.

I have to agree with you on the pulling power of the Lionel Challenger as I do own the BLI AC-5 and two of the BLI PRR J1's.
It is true that the Lionel Challenger leaves a lot to be desired both in form and function, but I own twelve UP challengers and only one Lionel and two Rivarosssi's. For the record, I stated I do not recommend the Lionel engine for several stated reasons. I actually believe my Lionel engine has gearbox problems after only ten hours of being on the staionary rollers while breaking it in. The rest of my Challengers are good model locomotives built by Tenshodo, Key , Overland and Challenger and they run great and pull fairly well.

The Athearn looks great in the pictures, but I do not expect it to pull well either, because of the Mikado they sold me several years ago. It has a great drive train built by Samhonsa, but it is very light weight.

I have the Athearn on reservations just because I want to try it.
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Posted by Anonymous on Sunday, September 19, 2004 3:51 PM
twhite Stated:
Banger1: 32 cars and you had to do all THAT? Funny, my Rivarossi Allegheny will do that and more up my 2.4 WITHOUT traction tires, and my BLI AC-5 does that and more regularly, just out of the box.

I have to agree with you on the pulling power of the Lionel Challenger as I do own the BLI AC-5 and two of the BLI PRR J1's.
It is true that the Lionel Challenger leaves a lot to be desired both in form and function, but I own twelve UP challengers and only one Lionel and two Rivarosssi's. For the record, I stated I do not recommend the Lionel engine for several stated reasons. I actually believe my Lionel engine has gearbox problems after only ten hours of being on the staionary rollers while breaking it in. The rest of my Challengers are good model locomotives built by Tenshodo, Key , Overland and Challenger and they run great and pull fairly well.

The Athearn looks great in the pictures, but I do not expect it to pull well either, because of the Mikado they sold me several years ago. It has a great drive train built by Samhonsa, but it is very light weight.

I have the Athearn on reservations just because I want to try it.
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Posted by andrechapelon on Sunday, September 19, 2004 3:52 PM
QUOTE: Originally posted by jwaldo

I believe the reason the Lionel Challenger pulls so little is it's dragging that 1 1/4 pound tender! [:0] One of the guys in my local club has one, and he plans on putting a plastic shell on the tender to lighten it...

That Bowser kit looks nice, I wonder how it runs?

And as far as riveting, it's not so much that I don't know how to install pop-rivets, as where the heck do I get a pop rivet tool thingy! [B)]


You don't necessarily need a special tool. I've used a narrow center punch like the one on the far left of this picture and a small ball peen hammer on a hard surface. However, this method is prone to splitting the rivet flange unless you're very careful.

However, all is not lost. Bowser includes a riveting tool in their kits. You can also buy it separately.

http://www.geocities.com/budb3/arts/meth/rivet.html

Andre
It's really kind of hard to support your local hobby shop when the nearest hobby shop that's worth the name is a 150 mile roundtrip.
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Posted by andrechapelon on Sunday, September 19, 2004 3:52 PM
QUOTE: Originally posted by jwaldo

I believe the reason the Lionel Challenger pulls so little is it's dragging that 1 1/4 pound tender! [:0] One of the guys in my local club has one, and he plans on putting a plastic shell on the tender to lighten it...

That Bowser kit looks nice, I wonder how it runs?

And as far as riveting, it's not so much that I don't know how to install pop-rivets, as where the heck do I get a pop rivet tool thingy! [B)]


You don't necessarily need a special tool. I've used a narrow center punch like the one on the far left of this picture and a small ball peen hammer on a hard surface. However, this method is prone to splitting the rivet flange unless you're very careful.

However, all is not lost. Bowser includes a riveting tool in their kits. You can also buy it separately.

http://www.geocities.com/budb3/arts/meth/rivet.html

Andre
It's really kind of hard to support your local hobby shop when the nearest hobby shop that's worth the name is a 150 mile roundtrip.
  • Member since
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Posted by Anonymous on Sunday, September 19, 2004 4:08 PM
QUOTE: Originally posted by andrechapelon

QUOTE: Originally posted by jwaldo

I believe the reason the Lionel Challenger pulls so little is it's dragging that 1 1/4 pound tender! [:0] One of the guys in my local club has one, and he plans on putting a plastic shell on the tender to lighten it...

That Bowser kit looks nice, I wonder how it runs?

And as far as riveting, it's not so much that I don't know how to install pop-rivets, as where the heck do I get a pop rivet tool thingy! [B)]



You don't necessarily need a special tool. I've used a narrow center punch like the one on the far left of this picture and a small ball peen hammer on a hard surface. However, this method is prone to splitting the rivet flange unless you're very careful.

However, all is not lost. Bowser includes a riveting tool in their kits. You can also buy it separately.

http://www.geocities.com/budb3/arts/meth/rivet.html

Andre


Cool :) Although all I see in that picture is a red X [xx(] If they include the tool all is well.

*adds the Bowser kit to his holiday wish list* [;)]
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Posted by Anonymous on Sunday, September 19, 2004 4:08 PM
QUOTE: Originally posted by andrechapelon

QUOTE: Originally posted by jwaldo

I believe the reason the Lionel Challenger pulls so little is it's dragging that 1 1/4 pound tender! [:0] One of the guys in my local club has one, and he plans on putting a plastic shell on the tender to lighten it...

That Bowser kit looks nice, I wonder how it runs?

And as far as riveting, it's not so much that I don't know how to install pop-rivets, as where the heck do I get a pop rivet tool thingy! [B)]



You don't necessarily need a special tool. I've used a narrow center punch like the one on the far left of this picture and a small ball peen hammer on a hard surface. However, this method is prone to splitting the rivet flange unless you're very careful.

However, all is not lost. Bowser includes a riveting tool in their kits. You can also buy it separately.

http://www.geocities.com/budb3/arts/meth/rivet.html

Andre


Cool :) Although all I see in that picture is a red X [xx(] If they include the tool all is well.

*adds the Bowser kit to his holiday wish list* [;)]
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Posted by Anonymous on Sunday, September 19, 2004 5:28 PM
QUOTE: Originally posted by bangert1



The Athearn looks great in the pictures, but I do not expect it to pull well either, because of the Mikado they sold me several years ago. It has a great drive train built by Samhonsa, but it is very light weight.

I have the Athearn on reservations just because I want to try it.

Who knows. It may be a whole new motor.
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Posted by Anonymous on Sunday, September 19, 2004 5:28 PM
QUOTE: Originally posted by bangert1



The Athearn looks great in the pictures, but I do not expect it to pull well either, because of the Mikado they sold me several years ago. It has a great drive train built by Samhonsa, but it is very light weight.

I have the Athearn on reservations just because I want to try it.

Who knows. It may be a whole new motor.
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Posted by andrechapelon on Sunday, September 19, 2004 5:37 PM
QUOTE:
Cool :) Although all I see in that picture is a red X [xx(] If they include the tool all is well.

*adds the Bowser kit to his holiday wish list* [;)]


Sorry. Hopefully this is better: http://www.widgetsupply.com/page/WS/PROD/center-punch/BCX33.

Andre
It's really kind of hard to support your local hobby shop when the nearest hobby shop that's worth the name is a 150 mile roundtrip.
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Posted by andrechapelon on Sunday, September 19, 2004 5:37 PM
QUOTE:
Cool :) Although all I see in that picture is a red X [xx(] If they include the tool all is well.

*adds the Bowser kit to his holiday wish list* [;)]


Sorry. Hopefully this is better: http://www.widgetsupply.com/page/WS/PROD/center-punch/BCX33.

Andre
It's really kind of hard to support your local hobby shop when the nearest hobby shop that's worth the name is a 150 mile roundtrip.
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Posted by Anonymous on Sunday, September 19, 2004 6:01 PM
QUOTE: Originally posted by andrechapelon

QUOTE:
Cool :) Although all I see in that picture is a red X [xx(] If they include the tool all is well.

*adds the Bowser kit to his holiday wish list* [;)]


Sorry. Hopefully this is better: http://www.widgetsupply.com/page/WS/PROD/center-punch/BCX33.

Andre


It is :)

Is the loco diecast or plastic? If it's diecast that will work strongly in favor of me getting it... [}:)] No one in my family likes "plastic toys [:(!]"
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Posted by Anonymous on Sunday, September 19, 2004 6:01 PM
QUOTE: Originally posted by andrechapelon

QUOTE:
Cool :) Although all I see in that picture is a red X [xx(] If they include the tool all is well.

*adds the Bowser kit to his holiday wish list* [;)]


Sorry. Hopefully this is better: http://www.widgetsupply.com/page/WS/PROD/center-punch/BCX33.

Andre


It is :)

Is the loco diecast or plastic? If it's diecast that will work strongly in favor of me getting it... [}:)] No one in my family likes "plastic toys [:(!]"
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Posted by andrechapelon on Sunday, September 19, 2004 6:20 PM
QUOTE: Originally posted by jwaldo

QUOTE: Originally posted by andrechapelon

QUOTE:
Cool :) Although all I see in that picture is a red X [xx(] If they include the tool all is well.

*adds the Bowser kit to his holiday wish list* [;)]


Sorry. Hopefully this is better: http://www.widgetsupply.com/page/WS/PROD/center-punch/BCX33.

Andre


It is :)

Is the loco diecast or plastic? If it's diecast that will work strongly in favor of me getting it... [}:)] No one in my family likes "plastic toys [:(!]"


All Bowser engines are diecast metal and heavy. The Challenger weighs nearly 2 pounds (engine only). If you've never built a steam loco kit, however, I'd start with something simpler like the "Casey Jones" 4-6-0, the "Old Lady" 2-8-0 or the NYC K-11 4-6-2.

Andre
It's really kind of hard to support your local hobby shop when the nearest hobby shop that's worth the name is a 150 mile roundtrip.
  • Member since
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  • From: California & Maine
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Posted by andrechapelon on Sunday, September 19, 2004 6:20 PM
QUOTE: Originally posted by jwaldo

QUOTE: Originally posted by andrechapelon

QUOTE:
Cool :) Although all I see in that picture is a red X [xx(] If they include the tool all is well.

*adds the Bowser kit to his holiday wish list* [;)]


Sorry. Hopefully this is better: http://www.widgetsupply.com/page/WS/PROD/center-punch/BCX33.

Andre


It is :)

Is the loco diecast or plastic? If it's diecast that will work strongly in favor of me getting it... [}:)] No one in my family likes "plastic toys [:(!]"


All Bowser engines are diecast metal and heavy. The Challenger weighs nearly 2 pounds (engine only). If you've never built a steam loco kit, however, I'd start with something simpler like the "Casey Jones" 4-6-0, the "Old Lady" 2-8-0 or the NYC K-11 4-6-2.

Andre
It's really kind of hard to support your local hobby shop when the nearest hobby shop that's worth the name is a 150 mile roundtrip.
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Posted by Anonymous on Sunday, September 19, 2004 6:35 PM
While I can't say I've built one from a kit per se, I HAVE disassembled a steam loco for cleaning and reassembled it...

Besides, it can't be that hard! *has a vision of himself sitting at a workbench for 5 years staring at a pile of parts* [:0][:0][B)]
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Posted by Anonymous on Sunday, September 19, 2004 6:35 PM
While I can't say I've built one from a kit per se, I HAVE disassembled a steam loco for cleaning and reassembled it...

Besides, it can't be that hard! *has a vision of himself sitting at a workbench for 5 years staring at a pile of parts* [:0][:0][B)]
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Posted by andrechapelon on Sunday, September 19, 2004 7:16 PM
QUOTE: Originally posted by jwaldo

While I can't say I've built one from a kit per se, I HAVE disassembled a steam loco for cleaning and reassembled it...

Besides, it can't be that hard! *has a vision of himself sitting at a workbench for 5 years staring at a pile of parts* [:0][:0][B)]


I notice you neglected to let us know if it would still run afterward. [:D]

Sorry 'bout that. Just kidding.

As for degree of difficulty, it depends on the loco. The Bowser Challenger would be a challenge if you haven't actually built a kit loco before.

Andre
It's really kind of hard to support your local hobby shop when the nearest hobby shop that's worth the name is a 150 mile roundtrip.
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Posted by andrechapelon on Sunday, September 19, 2004 7:16 PM
QUOTE: Originally posted by jwaldo

While I can't say I've built one from a kit per se, I HAVE disassembled a steam loco for cleaning and reassembled it...

Besides, it can't be that hard! *has a vision of himself sitting at a workbench for 5 years staring at a pile of parts* [:0][:0][B)]


I notice you neglected to let us know if it would still run afterward. [:D]

Sorry 'bout that. Just kidding.

As for degree of difficulty, it depends on the loco. The Bowser Challenger would be a challenge if you haven't actually built a kit loco before.

Andre
It's really kind of hard to support your local hobby shop when the nearest hobby shop that's worth the name is a 150 mile roundtrip.
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Posted by Anonymous on Sunday, September 19, 2004 7:35 PM
QUOTE: Originally posted by andrechapelon

QUOTE: Originally posted by jwaldo

While I can't say I've built one from a kit per se, I HAVE disassembled a steam loco for cleaning and reassembled it...

Besides, it can't be that hard! *has a vision of himself sitting at a workbench for 5 years staring at a pile of parts* [:0][:0][B)]


I notice you neglected to let us know if it would still run afterward. [:D]

Sorry 'bout that. Just kidding.

As for degree of difficulty, it depends on the loco. The Bowser Challenger would be a challenge if you haven't actually built a kit loco before.

Andre


lol

It did indeed run! [;)]

Basically, as long as most parts are bigger than a pinhead I'll manage it. I've done a few diesel loco kits...

Besides, I need a challenge from a challenging challenger [:p] If it keeps me happy and busy for a day or three it's good [8D]
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Posted by Anonymous on Sunday, September 19, 2004 7:35 PM
QUOTE: Originally posted by andrechapelon

QUOTE: Originally posted by jwaldo

While I can't say I've built one from a kit per se, I HAVE disassembled a steam loco for cleaning and reassembled it...

Besides, it can't be that hard! *has a vision of himself sitting at a workbench for 5 years staring at a pile of parts* [:0][:0][B)]


I notice you neglected to let us know if it would still run afterward. [:D]

Sorry 'bout that. Just kidding.

As for degree of difficulty, it depends on the loco. The Bowser Challenger would be a challenge if you haven't actually built a kit loco before.

Andre


lol

It did indeed run! [;)]

Basically, as long as most parts are bigger than a pinhead I'll manage it. I've done a few diesel loco kits...

Besides, I need a challenge from a challenging challenger [:p] If it keeps me happy and busy for a day or three it's good [8D]
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Posted by nfmisso on Sunday, September 19, 2004 7:46 PM
QUOTE: Originally posted by jwaldo
Besides, I need a challenge from a challenging challenger [:p] If it keeps me happy and busy for a day or three it's good [8D]


It will keep you busy a bit longer than three days <G>. Bowser has several choices for further detailing, for example do you want journal bearing or roller bearing side rods?
Nigel N&W in HO scale, 1950 - 1955 (..and some a bit newer too) Now in San Jose, California
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Posted by nfmisso on Sunday, September 19, 2004 7:46 PM
QUOTE: Originally posted by jwaldo
Besides, I need a challenge from a challenging challenger [:p] If it keeps me happy and busy for a day or three it's good [8D]


It will keep you busy a bit longer than three days <G>. Bowser has several choices for further detailing, for example do you want journal bearing or roller bearing side rods?
Nigel N&W in HO scale, 1950 - 1955 (..and some a bit newer too) Now in San Jose, California
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Posted by Anonymous on Monday, September 20, 2004 12:21 PM
QUOTE: Originally posted by AggroJones

QUOTE: Originally posted by twhite

Banger1: 32 cars and you had to do all THAT? Funny, my Rivarossi Allegheny will do that and more up my 2.4 WITHOUT traction tires, and my BLI AC-5 does that and more regularly, just out of the box. Maybe, like the UP prototype, the Lionel Challenger just isn't built for grades. You guys out there ever think about that? UP and their piddly little 1.5% over Sherman Hill? Maybe Athearn and Lionel are trying to tell you something--THE CHALLENGER IS NOT A HEAVY-DUTY FREIGHT DRAG ENGINE! At least not those little 97,000lb. TE UP jobs. You want pulling power? Get yourself an AC or a Yellowstone!


[(-D] [(-D] [(-D] YEAH! Either this is funny or I've had too many margaritas!


Perhaps too many.

From all the photos I've seen, the Genesis Challenger looks weak too. Too "gappy". Lots of blank spots in this locomtive.

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Posted by Anonymous on Monday, September 20, 2004 12:21 PM
QUOTE: Originally posted by AggroJones

QUOTE: Originally posted by twhite

Banger1: 32 cars and you had to do all THAT? Funny, my Rivarossi Allegheny will do that and more up my 2.4 WITHOUT traction tires, and my BLI AC-5 does that and more regularly, just out of the box. Maybe, like the UP prototype, the Lionel Challenger just isn't built for grades. You guys out there ever think about that? UP and their piddly little 1.5% over Sherman Hill? Maybe Athearn and Lionel are trying to tell you something--THE CHALLENGER IS NOT A HEAVY-DUTY FREIGHT DRAG ENGINE! At least not those little 97,000lb. TE UP jobs. You want pulling power? Get yourself an AC or a Yellowstone!


[(-D] [(-D] [(-D] YEAH! Either this is funny or I've had too many margaritas!


Perhaps too many.

From all the photos I've seen, the Genesis Challenger looks weak too. Too "gappy". Lots of blank spots in this locomtive.

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Posted by Anonymous on Monday, September 20, 2004 12:26 PM
QUOTE: Originally posted by nfmisso

QUOTE: Originally posted by jwaldo
Besides, I need a challenge from a challenging challenger [:p] If it keeps me happy and busy for a day or three it's good [8D]


It will keep you busy a bit longer than three days <G>. Bowser has several choices for further detailing, for example do you want journal bearing or roller bearing side rods?


Good. Should be fun... [8D]

Where is a good place to order these from?
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Posted by Anonymous on Monday, September 20, 2004 12:26 PM
QUOTE: Originally posted by nfmisso

QUOTE: Originally posted by jwaldo
Besides, I need a challenge from a challenging challenger [:p] If it keeps me happy and busy for a day or three it's good [8D]


It will keep you busy a bit longer than three days <G>. Bowser has several choices for further detailing, for example do you want journal bearing or roller bearing side rods?


Good. Should be fun... [8D]

Where is a good place to order these from?
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Posted by andrechapelon on Monday, September 20, 2004 12:53 PM
QUOTE: Originally posted by jwaldo

QUOTE: Originally posted by nfmisso

QUOTE: Originally posted by jwaldo
Besides, I need a challenge from a challenging challenger [:p] If it keeps me happy and busy for a day or three it's good [8D]


It will keep you busy a bit longer than three days <G>. Bowser has several choices for further detailing, for example do you want journal bearing or roller bearing side rods?


Good. Should be fun... [8D]

Where is a good place to order these from?


Try The Train Shop in Santa Clara, CA. The phone is 408 296-1050.

Generally TTS sells at about a 20% discount to retail and is always well stocked.

Andre
It's really kind of hard to support your local hobby shop when the nearest hobby shop that's worth the name is a 150 mile roundtrip.
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Posted by andrechapelon on Monday, September 20, 2004 12:53 PM
QUOTE: Originally posted by jwaldo

QUOTE: Originally posted by nfmisso

QUOTE: Originally posted by jwaldo
Besides, I need a challenge from a challenging challenger [:p] If it keeps me happy and busy for a day or three it's good [8D]


It will keep you busy a bit longer than three days <G>. Bowser has several choices for further detailing, for example do you want journal bearing or roller bearing side rods?


Good. Should be fun... [8D]

Where is a good place to order these from?


Try The Train Shop in Santa Clara, CA. The phone is 408 296-1050.

Generally TTS sells at about a 20% discount to retail and is always well stocked.

Andre
It's really kind of hard to support your local hobby shop when the nearest hobby shop that's worth the name is a 150 mile roundtrip.

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