trying to gain some more knowledge on US freight trains....

[Jetrock]

Western Pacific...awesome! I can tell you from first-hand experience that I still occasionally see Western Pacific rolling stock in its original paint scheme on Union Pacific trackage, even though Western Pacific was absorbed into UP in the 1980s! If anyone doubts you, send them my way and I'll scan some pics of WP boxcars I shot while stopped at a grade crossing last month!

[dinwitty]

Changing the reporting marks you would have to change the information on its records. Not a good idea when the car might be retired soon, cars have a service limit.

[Anonymous]

To Jetrock,

Man, when I read your first comment on 03/17/06, I did not really understand, but your second message woke me up: it is not Central Pacific but ....... Western Pacific !!!!
I promise I did not smoke anything .......... Both IM and Atlas have that version in their programme:1153-1 at Atlas and 47007 at IM, resp in lettering WP 12005 and WP 12050, so I guess those have really rolled around.
Sorry for the mistake ......

Juanfran who ever heard the old far west engines and the golden spike :)

[emdgp92]

Keep in mind too, that some maintenance-of-way equipment sometimes still has the reporting marks of railroads that are no longer around. Right around the Conrail split, there were still yellow ballast hoppers with PC and PRR markings on them. Keep in mind that PRR disappeared into PC in 1968, and Conrail was formed in '76.

[Jetrock]

um, are you sure about that 3 bay hopper? Maybe it's "Canadian Pacific" rather than "Central Pacific"? Central Pacific never had any 3 bay ACF covered hoppers, as they were absorbed as a corporate entity into Southern Pacific about three-quarters of a century before covered hoppers came into general railroad use...

[james saunders]

those 2 models will be fine as long as they are heavily weathered, and looked a bit battered.

[Anonymous]

Yeap, that happens in Europe too. However, I wonder whether this is the case with Genesis / Atlas. The models are more expensive and according to them, reliable in their details. Would those two take the risk of bringing a prototype that would not be according to the real prototype ?

[fwright]

Model producers often take liberties with road names - painting a car or locomotive with a paint scheme that they think will sell. It doesn't matter if the prototype road never used that loco or car, or had gone out of business long before that car style was in use. I've even seen steam engines lettered for Penn Central - a railroad that did not exist in that name while steam was still around. Then there is rolling stock that is lettered and painted for fictional model railroads, such as Roundhouse's Gorre and Daphited scheme.

This is done to boost sales so that tooling costs can be amortized over more than just followers of a particular protoype railroad. A new paint mask is far cheaper than new tooling.

yours in having fun
Fred W

[Anonymous]

Gent's,

Thanks again. This topic and the answers keep passionating me. The Milwaukee Road car I have is a 60' Gunderson High cube from Genesis and the Central Pacific is a ACF 3 bay covered hopper from Atlas, so I guess both could be OK. What do you think ? I agree that if the cars are still rolling around, they musn't be very shiny .....
Another interesting topic one of you guys mentioned was the fact that UP engines tend to look like the SP engines used to (due to the tunnels !?) Are you serious ? SP engines had a reputation even in Europe, can you imagine !?...... That does not keep me from remaining a SP fan, though.

[jimrice4449]

One other reason for "expired" road initials(especially on modern, post-merger cars) is the fact that you can use a number only once and w/ the mega-RRs it's quite possible to use up all the available numbers in a series lettered UP w/o getting all of the necessary cars numbered, hence the resusication of "dead" reporting marks such as CP or WP.

[Anonymous]

There's also the question of what era the Milwaukee Road car is from. If it has full height ladders and a roofwalk, it would be almost as out of place as the Central Pacific car. Roofwalks have been illegal since . . . what, sometime in the '60s?

If it doesn't have a roofwalk it would be usable, but as a car that hadn't been repainted in nearly 20 years it would probably be heavily weathered.

[Jetrock]

Central Pacific might be just a bit out of date for 1998: Central Pacific became Southern Pacific in the 1880s, and while many cars don't get repainted very often, it is unlikely that a car would be in use (let alone without repainting) for 120 years!

[Anonymous]

Another thing to mix up the paint schemes is that when a car (say from Maine) is unloaded (say in Florida) it wouldn't make sense to send it back empty. (With the exception of specialist cars and those dedictaed to specific traffic). So it will pick up a load for wherever (say Washington)... then it will go there the most effective way... which isn't necessarily the most direct/shortest. then it will head off someplace else...(Maybe California... Canada... Mexico). So long as it's in free interchange traffic it will go where it's paid for.
Persoanlly I love this because I can include pretty much any car within my time frame - or from earlier that wouldn't have been scrapped /worn out or regulated out of interchange use -
As far as I can tell the big restrictions on interchange use since 1945 have been on 40' cars (Excluding tank cars), the removal of running boards and the repositioning of brake wheels to the low level... although I keep finding pics of high brake wheels in recent shots on the net...???.
I expect that there have been threads on these changes or someone will be nice and provide dates.
Of course cattle cars and ice reefers faded out of use with traffic and technical changes.

have fun :-)

[Anonymous]

To Texansoldier / ericmanke / gilligan0269 / ramoutandabout / ndbprr / tomikawatt / James the Mad.

Thanks for your comments that really enlighted me. It confirmed my thoughts.
I asked because I am modelling a train around 1997 / 1998 and I have 2 beautiful Genesis and Atlas cars lettered Milwaukee Road and Central Pacific, that I don't need to resell now !!!!

[Anonymous]

The C&NW ceased to exist in April of 1995, but I still see their cars in UP trains, nearly 11 years later. And taking a quick look around the net, I found a picture of a pair of locomotives still in C&NW paint, still unpatched, that was shot in February of 2005.

So yeah, it takes years for a railroad to truly disappear.

[tomikawaTT]

A big part of the confusion stems from two basic facts:

1. Railroad equipment, especially freight cars, isn't completely repainted very often. More than a few cars have run from the car assembly plant to the scrap line without ever receiving a full new coat of paint.

2. Corporate ownership and leasing arrangements require that the car's reporting marks be up to date, for proper identification. That's why a rusty, beat up car may sport a couple of square meters of nice new paint under a crisply-stenciled set of initials and a number - or, occasionally, only the initials when the number hasn't been changed.
[Interesting sidelight on this - when the Conrail breakup was going on, but had not quite been finalized, ex - Conrail (ex Penn Central) rolling stock was temporarily given the reporting marks of the two major railroads which merged to form the PC. Thus there were NYC (New York Central) and PRR (Pennsylvania) reporting marks rolling through Nashville, Tennessee, in the 21st century. All will eventually be properly relettered CSX or NS, but I wouldn't bet that the cars will be completely repainted.]

Another source of chaos is that locomotives aren't repainted often, either. There are still plenty of Southern Pacific paint jobs running on UP, other fallen flags all over (since they were bought up by leasing companies and leased to whoever wanted to use them) and what seems like a dozen different ATSF, BN and BNSF schemes, all owned by the Burlington Northern Santa Fe.

The final fact is that freight cars are freely interchanged between different railroads so that a car loaded with Maine potatoes can reach San Diego, and Pacific Coast Redwood lumber from Oregon can be unloaded in southern Florida. Even entire unit trains of coal can be interchanged, leaving the mine on one railroad and arriving at the power plant on another. As long as a car has the mandated safety equipment installed it can run from anywhere to anywhere in the US, Canada and Mexico.

Fun, isn't it?

Chuck

[ndbprr]

I once saw a prediction saying UP engines would be dirty after the SP merger since SP had so many tunnels. You cant send them through the wash rack every day and it appears that this persons prediction has some validity

[ramoutandabout]

gilligan0269 id love to chat with ya since i live out in fremont thanks

ray

[Anonymous]

I live close to where the UP main line runs west out of Omaha, and i find it rather sad how they don't keep their equipment painted up to the times and how dirty some of the loco's look. I understand it's not feasible to wash a loco everytime it gets some dirt or soot on it but some of them i see you can't hardly read the roadname. When the everbody see's your name on the side of something you would think they would want it to look halfway respectible. Oh well Sorry for the rant.

[ericmanke]

Most of it is timing and money. Older equipment will not be painted as frequently becase it may be retired before it gets to the paintshop. Painting equipment costs money, and times have changed. Railroads are not the primary way freight is shipped in ths country anymore, except for bulk stuff like coal and grain. The economies of the real world have trumped the need for advertising on the sides of your freight cars.
Equipment trusts are another big reason the reporting marks will not match the paint scheme on a loco or freight car. Railroad equipment is very expensive, and much of it is leased from a financial institution for a specified period of time. There are many advantages for a railroad doing this, and there have been previous threads about that so I won't go into the specifics here. Often, when the lease is done, the equipment is returned to it lessor, and the lessor must find a new lessee or buyer for this equipment. Often the only thing repained is the reporting marks, as that is all that is necessary. I guess that goes back to the money factor again.
I personally like this hodgepodge. It keeps the spirit of these old railroad lines alive, and increases the color and variety in the trains we have here. Yesterday I saw a Candadian Pacific MP15AC still in Milwaukee Road colors. That merger was 20 years ago. Hope that helps.

[Anonymous]

Over the past 3 decades there have been multiple mergers of companies. Most of the time, when you see a locomotive series with a different companies locomotive mixed in. Is because that company just hasnt gotten around to painting it to their colors. Or the company is just leasing that locomotive. It could be one of many thing. Im sure theres others here with more to add

[Anonymous]

am trying to build a realistic US freight train, which means respecting the time frames etc..... There have been many mergers and take overs in the US railraod history and sometimes it is difficult to understand some details. For example, I often see cars in the colours of a new owner (for ex. UP) still lettered/numbered SP or KCS. Why that ?

Another thing: in spite of the fact that some companies (like D&RGW) have disappeared, you still seem to see engines and cars in their colours (and not always the "late" colours.....) many years after they were taken over. Now I understand that you can't repaint the whole stock within one year, but I have seen pics of D&RGW engines and cars in the late 90's and 2000. Is that common in the US ?

Thanks for your contributions. Regards, JF