Walthers Ore Cars

[Slowmodem]

I apologize for being away from the thread for so long.  There are some family health problems to deal with.  There are some absoultely great replies to this thread which will take some time to go through and digest.  Thanks again!

 

[dknelson]

A buddy who served on the Great Lakes boats verified that each of the chutes was powered with a small electric motor (they were also counterbalanced so the motors were fairly low hp).

Dave Nelson

[gmpullman]

 

The beauty of wood, concrete and steel —

 

https://www.shorpy.com/node/25442?size=_original#caption

 and some ore cars:

 

https://www.shorpy.com/node/25443?size=_original#caption

Regards, Ed

[doctorwayne]

DOH!   I'm sorry, Ed, but I never even noticed those wires when I first looked at the photo.

Perhaps when the facility was built (or whenever it was motorised) it made sense to leave the wires separate, as a failed one would be a lot easier to service, rather than work on ones stuffed into conduit with other wires.

I wonder, too, about the electrical power needed to raise those chutes.  I'd guess, based on the chutes' length, that the motors have a geared advantage, and may not be all that large, much in the same manner that a crane equipped with sheaves and pulleys can use a relatively small motor to lift large weights.

Wayne

 

[SeeYou190]

I am guessing ore cars would be in trains of nothing but other ore cars, or were these cars sometimes seen in manifest freight trains?

-Kevin

[gmpullman]

Hi, Wayne.

Yes, the lights I can understand. What I'm curious about are the multiple lines running into the lower dock from the right. If they are for operating the winches for the chutes I would think a heavier feeders would be run to a motor control center, then to the various winch motors. Wouldn't they have been bundled into conduit(s)?

Wire by Edmund, on Flickr

---

 

The above video explains another curiocity I've had. Notice the hopper door operator on his "trolley" at 9:00 where he engages the door actuating hardware and opens the hopper on the ore jennies. Quite interesting. I've seen the criss-crossed rods, actuating chains and ratchets on the cars. Now I know what makes them work.

lot 2553 - 1 028 by John W. Barriger III National Railroad Library, on Flickr

Hopper_actuator by Edmund, on Flickr

Regards, Ed

[doctorwayne]

gmpullman

Can anyone explain why all the wires?

Well, Ed, it looks like there are lights on the wires, so I would guess that ore dumping (and ore loading into the lake boats) goes on 24 hours a day, just like in the steel industry.
I'd guess that it's also much safer for the employees.

Wayne

[gmpullman]

 

More on ore:

 

https://www.shorpy.com/node/25437?size=_original#caption

And this can also be tied in to the thread on the A.I.M. concrete loader:

https://www.shorpy.com/node/25430?size=_original#caption

Can anyone explain why all the wires?

Regards, Ed

[dstarr]

Timely post.  I have some seven ore jimmy kits which I was thinking of building up for an ore jimmy train.  I was going to invent a mine and mining company for my Boston & Maine layout. In real life the B&M never enjoyed an on line mine and the traffic it produces, but, I'll invent one.  I have spent the last couple of days going thru my model rail mags looking for pictures, or even better a constuction article.  No such luck.  Flipping thru 3-4 years worth of mags, no ore jimmies.  Lots of reefers, cabeese, box cars, tank cars, passenger cars, but no ore jimmies.  I was very happy to see the John Barringer collection of photos in this thread.  Excellent shots from all angles.  I will use the photos for a little extra detailing.  I thought I would paint them all box car red (actually Krylon red auto primer) and say they are owned by the mining company and letter them accordingly.  I will make loads for them.  It's going to be fantasy modeling, but heh, it's a hobby.

[davidmurray]

I bought three twelve packs of Walthers ore cars close to twenty years ago.  There is a gold line on the box under the Walthers name.

They are lettered for CN, and have a build date of 11-57.  I don't know if these are the same cars, but sure are not the same run.  I added steel wheels and are happy with them.

 

[gmpullman]

Slowmodem

My next project is getting the cars and parts for the bridge for the ore dock in Marquette for the CLF RR or the LS&I.  Lots and lots of ore cars.

Hi, Slowmodem.

I might be able to help you build your collection of Walthers ore Jennies, if you don't mind them lettered for Bessemer and Lake Erie 

I'll send you a PM with details. (click the "Messages" icon by your screen name)

Lot 2513006 by John W. Barriger III National Railroad Library, on Flickr

Cheers, Ed

[Slowmodem]

Hi folks,  I've only been in this since I took my grandson to a train show before last Christmas and he ate it up.  So now Grandpa gets to build a railroad in the garage.  Hopefully I'm not the only one around here that's told that story.

I model mainly L&N for my two grandfathers that worked there, and I model the DT&I because my wife's grandfather worked there.  And I deal with NS because I help unload all the cars that bring coal to the plant.  Ironically, I live in the only county in TN with zero trains. tracks cars, etc. (with the exception of my modeo railroad!)

But back to the question: I ordered a lot of locomotioves and cars from eBay.  Some of it is good, some is........a learning experience.  I look closer at each entry now and realize what things can mean and ralize there is differences in paint in details (and shipping!).  But I am totally satisfied with my Walthers Mainline cars and engines.  There are some other nice ones out there, but for the price I'm sticking with Walthers If they have what I want.  I especially like the cars with the FRED that comes with them.  They work great.

I've got buildings and containers and lifts and stuff to put together, but I'm waiting for my grandson to come down from Indianapolis for a visit so we can do some of it together.

My next project is getting the cars and parts for the bridge for the ore dock in Marquette for the CLF RR or the LS&I.  Lots and lots of ore cars.  I've got two of the BN engines and a few of the ore cars, but there are two sets of 12 on ebay that would fit right in.  And Walthers says the dock is backordered,but in transit.  There are some wonderful videos of these trains on youtube.  And just down from there is a short line called E&LS RR that carries tons of logs north and south with lots of videos on youtube.  Explor what's out there and hopefully you'll find a RR that suits your needs.  Good luck!

Check my progress on YouTube:

https://www.youtube.com/channel/UCLw9L35qVJ9wKdMa6bWYqiQ

[loathar]

Hey Safety Valve-Do you have a link to your high tension power poles in your video?
Those look great! (so does the vid). This is a great thread. I was thinking about buying a twelve pak of those cars.

[Milwhiawatha]

I loosened the trucks slightly to get them to move better I havent had problems yet. I have boughten 2 4 packs undecorated I lettered one set up to losely represent Milwaukee Roads ore cars but now I dont know if I want to do that to the second set or sell them. As for Wheel sets Both of my 4 packs came with metal wheels.

[Anonymous]

I purchased a 12-pack set of the Walthers Gold Line ore cars a couple of months ago.. They got the metal wheelsets.

I do have one major complaint about them though.. The trucks don't have enough room to swivel freely. They can barely make it around some of the tighter #4 turnouts or 18-inch curves I have on my layout.

[coborn35]

QUOTE: Originally posted by wjstix

The MDC Upper Michigan cars are a little higher and a little narrower than the Walthers Minnesota cars, which is correct for the prototype cars. CNW bought some used DMIR Minnesota cars about 15-20 years ago. As far as I know, these would be the only MN cars that were used in Yooperland. I looked at the NEB&W link, I doubt the railroads built their ore docks first, and then decided to build ore cars to fit the docks !! I'm sure they bought ore cars first. FWIW I bought the first version of the NEBW book with all the historical facts etc. and found many rather obvious mistakes in there, so I would take anything from there (especially relating to things outside of their region) with a grain of salt. [;)]

BN used GP-38's (or GP-38-2's?? I'd have to check Pat Dorin's book) extensively on their ore trains going from the Mesabi Range to the ore docks at Allouez, WI in the seventies and eighties. Unlike many ore lines, BN generally used their newest power on the ore trains. I've been thinking of getting a couple of the Atlas Trainman engines for my BN ore trains.

Regarding the ore cars, CNW bought the cars, but the DMIR cars were too wide to fit multiple trains on the dock at one time, so they were modified to fit.

I have 4 Walthers Goldline cars (buying many more soon) and they have metal wheels and run great.


Also, BN used whatever power they had available on the all rail trains.

[Anonymous]

I changed my set of 24 ore cars from walthers to metal wheels and equippted with loads to weigh em down. The result is here:

http://www.youtube.com/watch?v=5cRPL274NCE&search=CounterHeavy

[Paul W. Beverung]

Stix: All my cars were bought after around October '05. I guess they did change to metal wheels. They mus have gotten alot of complaints.

[wjstix]

All of my Walthers cars are from the first couple years of production and all came with plastic wheels. Could be they've switched in recent years to metal??

I was pretty amazed by the Life-Like trucks, they are incredibly free-rolling and a direct replacement for the Walthers trucks. However the trucks do still sit a little low so I still use one Kadee washer to boost the car up a little.

[Paul W. Beverung]

Good Evening All:

Stix: My Walthers ore cars roll very easy . They have metal wheels and my Spectrum 2-8-0 pulled 64 of them on the level. When did you get yours? I wonder if Walthers changed to metal wheels at a later date, or changed to plastic wheels after I got mine. Interesting to hear that the Life like trucks work so well. I'll have to try some on some of my Varney ore cars. They still have the original Varney trucks.

[wjstix]

I thought it was just the trucks hitting the bottom of the car or something, so I raised the car with a couple of red Kadee washers per truck, but still they were like sleds!! Usually I've found the Walthers trucks with plastic wheelsets roll pretty well but these don't. I have a 2% grade on one part of the layout, I tried letting some cars roll down the grade. Starting at the top of the grade some Walthers cars couldn't make it to the bottom of the grade by themselves. With Life-Like trucks, they hit the bottom of the grade at a high rate of speed and go another 10-12 feet beyond on level track.

[Ibflattop]

WHats the deal with the Walthers cars not rolling right? Kevin

[wjstix]

BTW the Walthers cars that I think you're looking at are the BN ones and re-lettered DMIR ones, which would be from the 70's-80's (BN) to today (DMIR). The Missabe didn't use reporting marks on their cars, just their herald with the car no. underneath it. Since all-rail tac trains are sending these cars all over the country, the gov't made them restencil them with "DMIR". Now that the paint is wearing off, you can see the herald bleeding thru under the "DMIR" lettering. This is what the Walthers DMIR cars represent.

IMHO only bad thing about the Walthers cars is they don't roll very well, I'm replacing the trucks on mine with Life-Like trucks which are incredibly free-rolling.

[wjstix]

The MDC Upper Michigan cars are a little higher and a little narrower than the Walthers Minnesota cars, which is correct for the prototype cars. CNW bought some used DMIR Minnesota cars about 15-20 years ago. As far as I know, these would be the only MN cars that were used in Yooperland. I looked at the NEB&W link, I doubt the railroads built their ore docks first, and then decided to build ore cars to fit the docks !! I'm sure they bought ore cars first. FWIW I bought the first version of the NEBW book with all the historical facts etc. and found many rather obvious mistakes in there, so I would take anything from there (especially relating to things outside of their region) with a grain of salt. [;)]

BN used GP-38's (or GP-38-2's?? I'd have to check Pat Dorin's book) extensively on their ore trains going from the Mesabi Range to the ore docks at Allouez, WI in the seventies and eighties. Unlike many ore lines, BN generally used their newest power on the ore trains. I've been thinking of getting a couple of the Atlas Trainman engines for my BN ore trains.

[Milwhiawatha]

You were talking about the length of a train 40 cars etc. Here in Waukesha I have seen a gp40 hauling only 4 cars behind him and nothing else. It was interesting to see. This was awhile ago tho like a year.

[Paul W. Beverung]

Actually the pockets are on 12' centers to match the hatch spacing on the first boats built for hauling iron ore. The ore cars couple on 24 inch centers and unload into every other pocket. Bulk carriers have been built with hatches on both 12' and 24' centers. both types of boats are moved along the dock during loading. Now why the railroads had different widths is beyond me. All I can say is that the two reagons developed their own specs at about the same time. The docks tracks had to be spaced acording to the width of the cars that the railroad was using. One of the docks in the Upper Peninsula of Michagan had the wider spacing to accomadate the use of the wider cars. I don't remember off hand wich one it was. Yes the LS&I's ore dock is in operation and has been modified this year to have air operated pocket doors on the south side of the dock. This will make it safer to open the doors since the dock workers will not have to climb down to do this by hand.

[csmith9474]

QUOTE: Originally posted by jrbernier

The 'width' has nothing to do with the 'dock' The 'length' of the ore pocket is 24'. The t coupled length of an ore car is 24'. They dump between the rails, so the width is not an issue(it's only inches in difference on the two tyoes).. All of the Great Lakes cars were 24' on center, and most were 70t capacity. You can still see DM&IR ore dock operation in Duluth and maybe Two Harbors. The BNSF(ex-GN) ore dock in Superior is used to load ships, but the ore is dumped on land now and a conveyor moves it to the ore pockets on the dock. I am not sure if the LS&I is still moving ore, but the CN(ex-C&NW) dock at Escanaba also is a ground unloader and a conveyor to a 'loader' built on the outline of the old ore dock.

Jim

I guess these guys are wrong then. Somebody should tell them to correct their site...
http://railroad.union.rpi.edu/rolling-stock/ore-cars/95-2-Ore-car-models.php

The LS&I is still moving pellets from the Tilden (my father-in-law works at this mine) and Empire mines to the ore dock in Marquette.

[jrbernier]

The 'width' has nothing to do with the 'dock' The 'length' of the ore pocket is 24'. The t coupled length of an ore car is 24'. They dump between the rails, so the width is not an issue(it's only inches in difference on the two tyoes).. All of the Great Lakes cars were 24' on center, and most were 70t capacity. You can still see DM&IR ore dock operation in Duluth and maybe Two Harbors. The BNSF(ex-GN) ore dock in Superior is used to load ships, but the ore is dumped on land now and a conveyor moves it to the ore pockets on the dock. I am not sure if the LS&I is still moving ore, but the CN(ex-C&NW) dock at Escanaba also is a ground unloader and a conveyor to a 'loader' built on the outline of the old ore dock.

Jim

[Anonymous]

thats awsome news hahah me and my GF have been together for 3 years in april and ive been given a 200 dollar spending limit .
im torn between gettin 3 more sets of coal hoppers... which would bring my count to 30 ( not very many, but still alot for just bein in the hobby for a month)... orrrr if i should get like 4 sets of the ore cars ... 48 ore cars wouldnt really make a long train,
BUT it would look like a nice train ,and i havent seen any guys at the club with these cars so it would be unique .... i guess i have some thinkin to do