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HO scale hump yard!

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Posted by Lone Wolf and Santa Fe on Sunday, March 13, 2016 7:54 PM

I had a yard which I thought of as a hump yard because it worked on gravity but it wasn’t an accurate model of a real hump yard, just a place where the yard was at the bottom of a grade. What it was, was a time saving idea because like a real hump yard the switcher doesn’t have to move every car and constantly go back and forth.

J………

Modeling a fictional version of California set in the 1990s Lone Wolf and Santa Fe Railroad
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Posted by caldreamer on Sunday, March 13, 2016 8:41 AM

I have an operating hump yard on my N scale layout.  The crest of the hump is 1 3/8 inches high.  There are ten classification trcks, broken down into two groups of five by a wye switch at the bottom of the hump.  The two longest tracks are ten feet each.  Works quite well.

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Posted by BRAKIE on Sunday, March 13, 2016 4:35 AM

charlie9

As I remember, if the air was turned up to high, the car could be blown back up the hump.

Charlie

 

True and the cars could be stopped if there was a need.. It was a joy watching cars being hump..

Larry

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Posted by charlie9 on Sunday, March 13, 2016 3:33 AM

As I remember, if the air was turned up to high, the car could be blown back up the hump.

Charlie

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Posted by BRAKIE on Sunday, March 13, 2016 3:25 AM

maxman
 
BRAKIE
The Shelby(Oh) HO Scale club has or had a working hump yard with air operated retarders.

 

I'd really like to know how the air retarders were constructed.

 

The retarders was made from brass tubing and had control knobs along the facia. Controlled air flow slowed the cars progress down the hump and into the bowl.

Larry

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Summerset Ry.


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Posted by maxman on Saturday, March 12, 2016 6:48 PM

BRAKIE
The Shelby(Oh) HO Scale club has or had a working hump yard with air operated retarders.

I'd really like to know how the air retarders were constructed.

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Posted by BRAKIE on Saturday, March 12, 2016 6:42 PM

cuyama
There have been only a handful of truly functional model hump yards built with working retarders that can actually handle one car at a time and control the speed with which the individual cars roll into the body tracks.

Correct and the Shelby club has/had one that worked quite well with air retarders just below the crest of the hump.The cars was controled to a easy coupling. A computerized air system would probably be superior to a manual operated hump.

As far as the others who am I to judge what a builder calls a hump after all a hump is a man made mound.

Here's a sweet operation found at lake and tide water docks and as we know its not a hump.

https://www.youtube.com/watch?v=DntXjSb2cHU

Larry

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Summerset Ry.


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Posted by cuyama on Saturday, March 12, 2016 4:18 PM

Lone Wolf and Santa Fe
I remember seeing this picture in MR a long time ago. The Union Pacific built a model of their hump yard in Hinkle Oregon as a training layout.

Here's a web page with more of the story
https://www.up.com/aboutup/history/stories/construction/construction-hinkle-hump-yard-anderson/index.htm

The same model was later rebuilt to be used for training on one of the North Platte hump yards.

By the way, I don't see anything like retarders here, either, so probably they couldn't hump individual cars, but instead demonstrated how the various yards would work together.

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Posted by cuyama on Saturday, March 12, 2016 4:08 PM

BRAKIE
Speaking of N Scale..Here's a hump yard. https://www.youtube.com/watch?v=xIU9-vSS91U

Not really. There's no hump. And no retarders. The whole thing is on a slope and cars just slam full-speed into the ones already in the body tracks -- check out the impact on the last two cars.

There are some people who build poorly-working model subsets of hump yard functions and call it a "hump yard." 

There have been only a handful of truly functional model hump yards built with working retarders that can actually handle one car at a time and control the speed with which the individual cars roll into the body tracks.

99% of the time, claimed true "hump yards" in HO or N scales -- aren't.

[Edit: OK, maybe "99%" is a little high -- but not by much.]

Tags: Hump Yard
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Posted by BRAKIE on Saturday, March 12, 2016 12:06 PM

Lone Wolf and Santa Fe
 
sdCowboyBen

WHAT IS HE HOLDING UP?  LOOKS AS IF SOMETHING IS OVER THE CENTER TRACKS. Idea

 

 

 

I think it's an N scale boxcar his is setting on the hump.

j........

 

Speaking of N Scale..Here's a hump yard.

https://www.youtube.com/watch?v=xIU9-vSS91U

Larry

Conductor.

Summerset Ry.


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Posted by Lone Wolf and Santa Fe on Saturday, March 12, 2016 10:29 AM

sdCowboyBen

WHAT IS HE HOLDING UP?  LOOKS AS IF SOMETHING IS OVER THE CENTER TRACKS. Idea

 

I think it's an N scale boxcar his is setting on the hump.

j........

Modeling a fictional version of California set in the 1990s Lone Wolf and Santa Fe Railroad
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Posted by BRAKIE on Saturday, March 12, 2016 8:26 AM

The Shelby(Oh) HO Scale club has or had a working hump yard with air  operated retarders.

Here's one on You Tube.

https://www.youtube.com/watch?v=xBQudMMcjAI

Larry

Conductor.

Summerset Ry.


"Stay Alert, Don't get hurt  Safety First!"

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Posted by Steven S on Friday, March 11, 2016 11:26 PM

I think that may be the watermark that you're seeing. 

 

Steve S

 

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Posted by sdCowboyBen on Friday, March 11, 2016 10:20 PM

WHAT IS HE HOLDING UP?  LOOKS AS IF SOMETHING IS OVER THE CENTER TRACKS. Idea

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Posted by Steven S on Friday, March 11, 2016 8:26 PM

Gotta love that suit. Looks like they recycled an old sofa.

 

Steve S

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Posted by Lone Wolf and Santa Fe on Friday, March 11, 2016 6:45 PM

I remember seeing this picture in MR a long time ago. The Union Pacific built a model of their hump yard in Hinkle Oregon as a training layout. lol

1977 Press Photo Harry Meyen Of Union Pacific Demonstrates Hinkle Yard Model

1977 press photo harry meyen of union pacific demonstrates hinkle yard model. this is an original press photo. Union pacific executive herry meyen demonstrates model of new hinkle classification yard in easter oregon.

Model, which will be used to train 300 to 400 hinkle employees, is mounted in rail car.

 

j..........

 

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Posted by Train Master K on Friday, March 11, 2016 5:09 PM

Hey... do you have any pictures of your Hump Yard and retarders?

I'm working a Humpyard as well, so far it's been a success. I will upload pictures soon.

 

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Posted by B&O SteamDemon on Tuesday, March 15, 2011 4:36 PM

Richard,

Thanks for the kind words I'm glad you understand how my hump yard works, I spent about 2 months trying to figure out how to design and build the hump yard.  In my first attempts I was quickly reminded about the laws of physics and gravity the hard way, I tried just having some styrene strip inside of the rails to drag on but that didn't work too well or slow the cars down very well and when two of my brass boxcars collided it was ugly.  Hense I came up with the use of a electric motor on a momentary switch that I could hold and apply the styrene  against the wheels to control the speed going into the yard.  I had to also adjust the grade of the downhill run to get a combination that worked well enough and still be functional. 

Ray

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Posted by Train Modeler on Tuesday, March 15, 2011 2:04 PM

B&O SteamDemon

 

 Train Modeler:

 

For those of you with operating HO hump yards I would like to know more about the uncoupling.  There are a myriad of ways to slow cars down and fine tune the bowl action.   But the facilities to  uncouple anything from a 40 footer to a 80+footer seems difficult while maintaining continual reverse motion and consistent speed of the locomotive.     At least without 5 finger assistance.

Richard

 

On the hump yard I have, I have a kadee uncoupler on the down slope past the apex of the hill and I have the coupler marked on the rails with some "yellow" paint to mark the start and stop of the uncoupler.  Granted my hump yard is small but it's a yard that works.  I usually run the engine slowly going forward and when I uncouple the car(s) to head to the yard it seems to work well, the main thing is making sure the cars have enough weight in them to roll away and not stall going down the hill before reaching the yard.  The consist moves very slowly until the cars cut loose, at that point I stop the train and focus on the rolling cars heading for the yard.  I can store about 12-16 cars per track on the long tracks and about 8-10 cars on the short tracks.  I don't shove the cars with the engine but let gravity take the cars once I uncouple them, so they don't take off right away but build up speed going down the hill, I know this is not a true prototypical hump yard in the delivery of the cars to the bowl but it works and it fits on my layout.  I usually will run 20-30 cars through the hump while breaking up a train.  It took awhile and lots of trial and error to get the hump yard to work right, it's not fancy or very big but it was a personal challenge to me to make a working hump without the use of air but more closely to the real thing with the retarders I use on the hill. 

 

Hope this answered your question about uncoupling the cars to send them to the yard.

 

Ray

Ray,

Thank you very much.    I understand the need to stop the loco and very much like what you've done.    Your trial and error served you well much like the original engineers of hump yards.   And frankly, for just me personally, I think we modelers who want to be prototypical are sometimes too afraid to do things in  a way that works.    A hump yard requires a pin puller as well as an engineer to get the car (s) cut off.   Plus all the automation, etc.    So, if  we as modelers had someone as an engineer and someone else as "pin puller" to help separate the cars manually somehow(TBD) is that more prototypical than making it all automatic?

Richard

 

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Posted by B&O SteamDemon on Tuesday, March 15, 2011 12:29 PM

Train Modeler

For those of you with operating HO hump yards I would like to know more about the uncoupling.  There are a myriad of ways to slow cars down and fine tune the bowl action.   But the facilities to  uncouple anything from a 40 footer to a 80+footer seems difficult while maintaining continual reverse motion and consistent speed of the locomotive.     At least without 5 finger assistance.

Richard

On the hump yard I have, I have a kadee uncoupler on the down slope past the apex of the hill and I have the coupler marked on the rails with some "yellow" paint to mark the start and stop of the uncoupler.  Granted my hump yard is small but it's a yard that works.  I usually run the engine slowly going forward and when I uncouple the car(s) to head to the yard it seems to work well, the main thing is making sure the cars have enough weight in them to roll away and not stall going down the hill before reaching the yard.  The consist moves very slowly until the cars cut loose, at that point I stop the train and focus on the rolling cars heading for the yard.  I can store about 12-16 cars per track on the long tracks and about 8-10 cars on the short tracks.  I don't shove the cars with the engine but let gravity take the cars once I uncouple them, so they don't take off right away but build up speed going down the hill, I know this is not a true prototypical hump yard in the delivery of the cars to the bowl but it works and it fits on my layout.  I usually will run 20-30 cars through the hump while breaking up a train.  It took awhile and lots of trial and error to get the hump yard to work right, it's not fancy or very big but it was a personal challenge to me to make a working hump without the use of air but more closely to the real thing with the retarders I use on the hill. 

Hope this answered your question about uncoupling the cars to send them to the yard.

 

Ray

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Posted by Train Modeler on Tuesday, March 15, 2011 11:02 AM

For those of you with operating HO hump yards I would like to know more about the uncoupling.  There are a myriad of ways to slow cars down and fine tune the bowl action.   But the facilities to  uncouple anything from a 40 footer to a 80+footer seems difficult while maintaining continual reverse motion and consistent speed of the locomotive.     At least without 5 finger assistance.

Richard

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Posted by AltonFan on Tuesday, March 15, 2011 10:51 AM

N-Scale magazine ran an article a while back about some people who built a modular hump yard in N scale.  Air jets were used for the retarders, which were controlled by a foot pedal.

Dan

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Posted by DavidP on Tuesday, March 15, 2011 9:30 AM

I have always wanted to build a Hump yard,mainly because of fan visits to yards and watching the hump operate.Operation is limitless, Hump pullers and pushers,inbound yards,outbound yards,car shops and locomotive shops. I often thought about a "Dummy hump" hill as a backdrop and have inbound and outbound yards in and around the hill track,not modeling the "Hump bowl yard"itself.Hump towers in all hump yards are so cool,these can be modeled as backdrops too.I do agree with the impossibilities such as, retarders, pin pulling ,car weight and most importantly Space! A Hump yard is at least 5 miles long by 1/2 miles wide.Only a few modelers or clubs have this room. Hump yards I ve worked in, NS Bellevue, Buckeye, and Conway are very large facilities, I cannot imagine modeling these yards to scale,in any model scale.   

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Posted by jwhitten on Tuesday, March 15, 2011 8:46 AM

B&O SteamDemon

 my grandson decided to take underwater pictures of the bathtub with my digital camera.  (grandma left the camera sitting next to the tub after some "cute" baby pictures of a bubble bath and grandson knocked the camera into the tub)  So much for the new camera.

Ray

 

Actually your camera may be salvageable:

 

Method A

1. If the camera took a QUICK plunge-- less than a few seconds-- say maybe up to 10 (that's a number I pulled out of my hip pocket) your best course of action really is to just shake it off and hope it survived.

 

Method B

1. If the camera is *already* dry (i.e., it got wet-- you didn't know what to do and it's dried out in the meantime), accept your fate-- assess it for usability, it might surprise you. You might just need to clean the lens. Getting it wet again is likely to simply tempt fate.

(If it took a long plunge into the ocean however, that might be another matter, and you might want consider Method C below if it hasn't been too long from the incident)

 

Method C   (This is also the best strategy if your camera gets dunked in sea water)

1. If the camera is still wet and it's been wet for longer than a few seconds-- say 20-30 seconds or longer-- Don't let it dry out yet!!!! (Perform step #2 and put it in a plastic bag and pour water in it if you have to! Especially if it got dunked in sea water)

2. Remove the batteries and memory card (the memory card is probably fine in any case, mine go through the washer & drier all the time :-)

3. Get some distilled water (from any source)

4. Submerse your camera in it and gently agitate it to remove any contaminants from the bath tub (or the ocean, in which case salt is going to be your biggest problem) You may have to repeat this step several times, and especially if it took a plunge into the ocean.

5. Pull it out and roll it around to let all the water drain out -- this is an important step-- work at getting the water out, you can shake it some, etc-- the goal is to try to drain all the water out of the camera now to the best of your ability.

If there are any covers that can be removed with tools you have handy-- *AND* you're good with using them (you are a Model Railroader, right ??) You can remove them now-- just the outer skins and covers, no more, and gently see if you can blow water off the internal parts-- but *only* after you've gotten all the water out and off of the camera. You don't want to introduce water *inside* the camera that was being kept out by seals and covers. Only remove the skins if it seems like you can and you feel like you have the skills to do so. It's an optional step.

6. Put the camera somewhere warm and dry-- I like to put mine on top of the fridge where it gets the warmth from the compressor. Near a sunny window is also good-- on a car dashboard-- but *not* in the direct sunlight (or at least not for long-- and *never* with the lens pointed at the sun in any case-- you can burn out the CCD element), and/or cause the oils and lubricants in the camera to heat up and get runny and they can leak out all over the mechanical or optical parts and do more damage than the water.

  -- Then *don't touch it!* for several days. Seriously, just leave it alone to dry out on it's own. Don't test it, don't put the batteries in it "just to see if it still lights up"-- just leave it alone, let it go for several days or longer to be completely sure its totally and completely dried out inside.

7. Then put the batteries and memory card back in and see if you still have a camera.

 

The biggest issue with getting a camera dunked in any kind of water, apart from the *possibility* of frying the electronics (note that I did *not* say "certainty"! There is hope!) is whether or not it will damage the lens focusing (adjustment) and/or zoom mechanism, and/or the shutter. If the camera is of the "all-in-one" variety you have a much better chance of survivability as many (most?) of those have gaskets and seals that help keep the water out of the mechanisms. If the plunge was swift there's a good possibility that the water didn't even get a chance to penetrate the seals.

If the camera gets dunked in sea water (salt water) the biggest danger is the corrosive action of the salts, which can also begin to remove oils and grease on internal mechanical parts. And of course electricity is more able to flow (conduct) in salt water than fresh water.

(Most people don't realize it but *water* is *not* a very good conductor of electricity. Rather it is the *salts* or other contaminants that are *IN* the water that permit it to be more conductive. You can actually run an electric motor hooked with bare wires to a battery completely submerged with no problems if you're using fresh, distilled water. Sooner or later though,  the motor might begin to rust...)

The goal is to flush out the sea (salt) water with the distilled water as best you can. Again trying to rinse the salts off the camera and innards, without (hopefully) breaching the internal seals.

 

If your camera gets dunked in fresh water-- river or pond water, or dirty bath water-- you don't have the salts to contend with generally, but you do have dirt or perhaps soaps that can get on the optical surfaces and cause problems. Anything that gets on the outside of the camera, including the lens and viewfinder, can be cleaned off. In the case of the lens and viewfinder, use optical grade cloth / wipes and fluids made specifically for cleaning lenses. Lenses often have anti-glare or other coatings to help block out the sun, and/or internal reflections between the various lenses in the optical assembly. You don't want to scratch any coatings or wipe (grind) any off.

Again, if its fresh water, a quick dunking of less than a few seconds and everything is probably going to survive without much problems. Just shake it off and clean the lens. I have several all-in-one digital cameras that I've taken kayaking with me that have survived accidental plunges in the river, or even getting completely submerged while capsized.... (it happens :-) And *ALL* of them are still functional, still working, and I still use them for water-related activities.

 

Hope this helps!

 

John

Modeling the South Pennsylvania Railroad ("The Hilltop Route") in the late 50's
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Posted by B&O SteamDemon on Monday, March 14, 2011 11:39 PM

rogertra

AFAIK, Not a single HO scale hump yard works realistically.   Period! 

Mass and friction don't scale so you cannot have an HO freight cars roll at a scale 5 MPH for say the 12 or more foot length of one of the model  hump yard bowl tracks as it does in the prototype.  The typical HO scale hump yard has rolling stock coming down from the hump at near warp speed, only to grind to a halt some four or five feet into the bowl track.  Nothing like the prototype that comes over the hump at walking speed, gains momentum as it crests the hump to about 10 MPH and then, after passing through the retarders, slows to around walking speed and drifts for several hundeds of feet until it couples to cars already on the track or drifts to a slow halt.

Don't waste you time trying to build a scale hump, it don't work.

I'm afraid to differ with you on this topic, I have a working hump yard that works on friction not air.  If you see my post on this topic you will note that it does come close to prototypical operation and the cars don't race away at warp speed but they do move I will grant you at a proto speed of about 15-20 mph before hitting the retarders, but the way I have the retarders set on electric motor so that they close and make contact with the wheels to slow the cars down enough to enter my hump yard at about proto speed of 10 mph.  This took me about 3 months of tuning the hump and retarders to get the right combo.  My hill is 2 1/2% downhill grade with the kadee uncoupler mounted just past the apex so that there is no issue of being stuck on the consist.  For the cars coming in and filling the tracks that are nearly full already I leave the retarders on longer to have the cars roll in at about 3-5 mph.  This takes time to learn and get the feel for how long to leave the retarders on to get the cars to roll to the right tracks and distance you want.  It's not hard to build a working hump yard it just takes time and patience to get it working correctly.

Ray

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Posted by B&O SteamDemon on Monday, March 14, 2011 11:23 PM

I have a hump yard on my layout, after alot of trial and error I have one that works on gravity without air assist.  I have a kadee uncoupler just past the apex on the top of the hill to release the cars down the hill and 2/3 of the way down I have strips of styene inside of the rails with mole skin on them so that the car's wheels rub against them to slow down the cars.  I have this set on an electric motor that opens and closes the strips against the cars to control the speed I use a momentary switch to operate the motor.  I found this works very well and with a little practice is easy to use without all the plumbing needed to run air to retard the speed of the cars.  Granted my hump yard is only 7 tracks but this system works very well.  I use a 2 1/2% grade for the cars to roll down from the apex, also make sure that your cars have at least 3 oz of weight in them so that they can get a good run downhill without stalling on the track.  Remember to use the moleskin as this helps with to keep from rubbing all of the weathering off the wheels when the retarders engage the wheels.  Hope this helps,  I will get some pictures of it here soon, my grandson decided to take underwater pictures of the bathtub with my digital camera.  (grandma left the camera sitting next to the tub after some "cute" baby pictures of a bubble bath and grandson knocked the camera into the tub)  So much for the new camera.

Ray

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Posted by pastorbob on Monday, March 14, 2011 10:58 PM

Larry Keeler had one on his layout here in Kansas City many many moons ago.  All automated.  Really added to the operating sessions, seems to me Larry had it all automated as far as switch controls and operations.

Bob

Bob Miller http://www.atsfmodelrailroads.com/
Cat
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Posted by Cat on Monday, March 14, 2011 9:52 PM

Motorised box cars and DCC Idea

GHL&G : Gray Havens, Lorien & Gondor RR
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Posted by steemtrayn on Monday, March 14, 2011 2:20 PM

Y'mean nobody's come up with a computerized system to regulate the air jets yet? C'mon, I'm sure we have the technology.

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