Tortoise vs. Peco solenoid

[jrbernier]

I have converted from the 'twin-coil' machines(Kemtron/NJ Int/etc...) to the Tortoise motors as they are 'bullet-proof' and once installed, I do not have to do anything more to them!
The only other motor I would use is the SwitchMaster, but getting them can be hard. They have been in and out of production by several companies. You can by the motor itself from the manufacturer in Wisconsin, but you have to buy them in quantitiy, IIRC. The mount can be had from RIX, and then you have to buy a pair of micro switches and assemble/wire the entire thing. You can have $20/machine invested very fast! The Tortoise machines are about $19 MSRP, but you can get them for under $13 each in 12 packs. They just need to have the included wire bent per the diagram and attached - Ready for install. I usually take about 10-15 minutes to install a Tortoise, and that is the last thing I ever do to it.
As noted in a post above, you do not need to have constant current. But, you will need to hold that SPST momentary toggle while the Tortoise motors over. Also it may 'creep' back, so the constant current is a plus for positive rail contact. I power mine with an old 9VDC 'Wall Wart' left over from some old electronic device. The actual output is about 11-12 volts at 750 ma. I have 10 Tortoise motors on my layout, and if I could throw all 10 at once, that is only about 250 ma total current!

Jim

[MisterBeasley]

QUOTE: Originally posted by WilmJunc

Bruce:

If you go with the direct mounted Peco machine, it seems that you need to make a good size opening (approx. 1/2" x 1") in your base material to fit the machine. How do you keep the ballast from entering the opening, and also from getting into the machine?

Did you buy your Peco supplies from Gerry at Maine Trains?

Steve

This post:
http://www.trains.com/community/forum/topic.asp?TOPIC_ID=57775
has a nice tutorial on a simple cover-over for the Peco machines so you don't see the large holes in the roadbed.

I've done this for the most recent Peco I put in. It's very easy, and covers the hole nicely. I haven't ballasted that track yet, so I can't say how the finished product will look. I use WS foam roadbed over 2-inch pink stuff, so I just take a big knife and cut a rectangular hole all the way through for mounting. That give me easy access to the wiring, and allows some ventilation even with the top covered up.

And yes, I'm off to Maine Trains this week for another turnout and motor. Unfortunately, I started my layout with Atlas turnouts, and now I really regret it. They work OK, but I really hate the appearance of the switch machines. All my new ones will be Pecos for sure.

[Anonymous]

The best way I've seen to avoid ballast getting into the Peco solenoids was to cut a slot for the operating rod and bolt the machine under the board rather than directly to the underside of the switch. Failing that, you can cut a piece of plastic or card to fit between the switch and the solenoid and cover the hole. They do seem very reliable (I have one that was originally used on my Dad's OO layout in the '70s that still works perfectly) and they're a lot cheaper than Tortoises over here.

[Don Gibson]

RFMISSSO said it!.. (Take it to the bank).

One takes constant 'trickle' current to maintain contact, the other, amperage to move and springs to hold.

[jimrice4449]

I might be able to make rails5 a deal on Switchmasters as I'm going through all of mine and replacing them w/ Tortoises. They (Tortoises) are dependable and easy to mount (unlike Switchmaster) and the 2 sets of DPST contacts lend themselves to all sorts of use, like one set to power the frog and the other to activate LEDs on the control panel for an indication of how the switch is lined rather than the usual indication of only how the power is routed to the switch machine
I've never used the Peco machine (although I use their switches) but my experiences (uniformly bad) w/ 3 or 4 other brands of 2 coil machines has permanently turned me off of the type.

[dharmon]

Steve,

On my home layout I have Peco turnouts and machines. At the club I used to belong to, we had Tortoises. Both work fine, but were I to do it over.....when I do it over...I may do it differently. The downside to Peco I've found is that if there is any resistance to the points moving, such as the tab misaligned, a bit of ballast or if I just haven't used them in awhile, the solenoid will throw and may not move the points. Usually a couple of cycles will get it going. I wouldn't recommend against them, but I would say the Tortoise is a tad better..once they get installed and aligned, which is a different issue all together.

Dan

[WilmJunc]

Bruce:

If you go with the direct mounted Peco machine, it seems that you need to make a good size opening (approx. 1/2" x 1") in your base material to fit the machine. How do you keep the ballast from entering the opening, and also from getting into the machine?

Did you buy your Peco supplies from Gerry at Maine Trains?

Steve

[MisterBeasley]

I've never tried the Tortoises myself, so I can only comment on Pecos. I'm very happy with mine, as I am with the turnouts. The direct mount of the switch machine to the turnout is a plus, because it eliminates alignment problems. Auxilliary contacts are an add-on for Peco, which is a minus if you want them for signalling. Yes, they really do want a capacitive discharge system, but once you've got it they work extremely well. The spring-loaded turnouts provide good, solid point-to-rail contact so power routing is less likely to be a problem. If you do use Tortoises with Peco turnouts, other threads have noted that you need to remove the springs.

[Anonymous]

Actually, the Tortoise does NOT need constant power. Since I had 30+ momentary toggle switches from my cap. discharge system, I decided to give them a try. I have had very little problems. One or two machines had to be moved slightly or add a very small bend to the throw wire, but that was it. Without constant power, you can hear some of my Tortoises being pulled back from full throw position due to spring in closure rails. It is a small amount and power routing through the internal microswitch is maintained. Over 95% of my Tortoises have been installed without any subsequent problems.

Lou

[Anonymous]

Switchmaster are better than either.

[Anonymous]

Ditto about Tortoise quality. I haven't used anything else, either.

But I've got about a hundred, including at least two dozen I bought used on eBay, some for about $4. When I got them, I thought, well, I sure blew a few bucks this time! They looked just awful -- the labels were discolored and peeling off, even the plastic was faded and extra grungy. But they work! Just like new ones, Including the relays. I've had a grand total of one failure.

Also note that the (minimal) constant power use may actually be good -- you can wire LEDs to them (in either of a couple of ways) for panel lights and/or trackside signals.

Finally, the spring wire activation provides a constant pressure to hold the points against the rail, and will work with various throw lengths.

[Anonymous]

I have been using Tortoise machines ever since MR had an article that compared the lifetime performance of a number of switch machines. The MR conclusion was all other switch machines (at that time) were not even close. I think the article was in the mid-80's.

After moving to a new home in 1988, I replaced my capacitive discharge twin-coil switch machines (Kemtron, NJ International) with Tortoise. My railroad has had a monthly op. session since 1992 except for a two-year hiatus after moving again in 2001. Of the 40 Tortoises on my layout, only one has had to be replaced and one has had a failure of the internal micro-switch on one-side. On the latter, I just used the wiring on the second set of contacts. I power route through my switches as I don't like depending on point contact pressure.

Since I scratch build all of my switches and track, except for a hidden yard, the throw force has to be greater than ready-made switches. The only thing I do differently is use a stiffer throw wire than the one provided by Tortoise.

Needless to say, you cannot go wrong with a Tortoise. I cannot speak to the Peco switch as I have no experience with it.

[nfmisso]

They both work well. Tortise is quiet, and draws very little power, but needs power all the time. Peco machine is loud, draws a great deal of current, but only momentarily. With DCC, Tortise can draw power from the track. Peco work best with a capacitive discharge (CD) supply.

[WilmJunc]

I'm looking for the advantages and disadvantages of the two different kinds of switch machines. I plan on using ground throws in reachable areas, but want to install some switch machines in those harder to reach areas. I have Peco turnouts in areas that will require machines and have bought one Peco machine to try out. I'm always curious to hear the experience of others.