6 axle locos on 18" radius

[Soo Line fan]

One way to determine if an engine is struggling through too tight a turn is Amp-draw. I did some testing last night to see if current was going up on any of the locos on my list. I used a DMM with a recording feature so I could see Min/Max Milliamps for the entire run. At 100% throttle I saw a max deviation of only .060Ma. This is hardly an amount worth worrying about.

Once upon a time I was about to make my first purchase of a quality engine. I wanted a Con-Cor/Roco SD-35. The hobby shop, which has long since closed, talked me out of it. They stated it would do nothing but derail due to my curves, so I bought the GP-38 instead.

One day I found a damaged SD-35 on the mark down table and bought it for parts. I could not resist repairing and running it. To my surprise it ran just as well as the GPs.

I have since determined most modern plastic engines today have enough lateral play in the trucks to allow operation on 18” curves without any derailments or binding. If you are having trouble keeping a car coupled, try an extended shank coupler.

Jim

[SMassey]

QUOTE: Originally posted by Soo Line fan

I run the following 6 axle engines on 18” curves with no problems whatsoever:

Kato SD-40-2
Kato SD-45
P2K SD-60
P2K SD-60M
Athearn F-45
Atlas/Roco SD-24
Atlas/Roco SD-35

Jim

To add to this list:
Kato SD80MAC
Kato SD90/45MAC
Kato SD70MAC
Atlas Dash 8-40C
Atlas Dash 8-40CW

These will run and NOT derail the first car, but they look kinda funny.

These will not run for some reason or another.
Athearn Genisis SD70MAC (Loco does fine but it will throw the first car off the track)
BLI N&W Class J 4-8-4 (The front truck cant handle that tight will derail)
Bachmann N&W Class J 4-8-4 (same as the BLI and if there is a little bump or flaw in the track the tender will derail as well)
Bachmann USRA 4-8-2 ( front truck again derails but tender does just fine on this one)

Most of the Locos I listed for not working on 18" radius will do just fine on 22 and greater. The locos I listed I own and have attempted to run on 18" track with no luck.

[Anonymous]

I can't even get an Atlas GP40 and 55' hopper to couple on 18" curves.

[ddechamp71]

QUOTE: Originally posted by alexander13

I was wondering weather 6 axle locos will run on 18"curves, as I may be able to get some in the near future. i know i have limitations, like no 2-8-2 steamers, but i am stuck with 4x8 till i get a big shed, happening soon.

Thank you
alexander13

Yes, my Z scale 6-axle locos run fine on my 20" minimum radius curves![;)]

Dominique

[Anonymous]

Has anyone yet mentioned coupling and uncoupling?

The newest MRP came with a pamphlet: "Introduction to track planning"

It recommends 24" for six-axle diesels.

It's important to remember that just because something will not derail on a curve, it doesn't mean it will successfully couple to other cars/loco's on the curve.

This thing that came with the MRP annual is great. It's like all the super critical stuff from John Armstrong's layout design book crammed into a couple pages. Good stuff.

[Anonymous]

Not everyone has trouble with 18" radius. I can get everything I own around 18''s (ranging from 0-6-0s to 4-8-4s, GP38-2s to SD80MACs, 40' boxes to 80'+ passenger cars). If he has problems, he'll learn. Live and learn, ya know?

[CNJ831]

As others have indicated, it depends largely on the quality of your trackwork. However, it can also be about the particular tolerances of a given locomotive's wheel separation, wheel play and truck swing. With smooth curves having unbroken rails, starting and ending with easements, you'll likely make out alright. If your trackwork is the least bit shoddy, or the locomotive's wheel arrangement the least bit out of specs, you're in big trouble.

One of the rules that really should be followed regarding a layout is to run locomotives sized appropriately to your trackwork and especially its curves. Attempting to run the largest locomotives and rolling stock possible on the sharpest of curves is just a guarantee for disappointment.

CNJ831

[CP5415]

DON, BUDDY, come on now!

It's all about BIG power. The bigger the better! [:D]
You are absolutely correct about derailments with large power.
But again, it's all about the learning curve.
I learned that I can't have my SD50/60 & AC4400's coupled directly up to my Centerbeam cars because the cars will derail. If I put a 50' car inbetween, no problem!

I apologize if I took your words out of context.
I myself have taken wisdom from you & applied it to my modeling but sometimes I find that you are sometimes negative in your responses & may be taken in the wrong way.

Gordon

[Don Gibson]

"WHATEVER you have may run on 18" curves, but it won't run WELL - or look right - so what's the point??"-DG

Answer: FUN?

WE ALL play trains. You will find the most fun comes with seeing things WORK.
That means a small engine pulling a small train on a small layout is as MUCH fun as a BIG one.

How much FUN is there is having derailments, cars that sideswipe, couplers that won't mate, but engines (WOW) that stay on the track?(Been there done that). Gordon, I started with 18" radius like you, but it wasn't much fun seeing my pride-and-joy brass 4-6-4 derail and fall to the floor. Importers then didn't do repairs or stock parts.GORDON: You took my comments somewhat out of context. The SUBJECT was modern large or 6 axle equipment on 18 "radius.

I'm glad that your 4 year old daughter shares your joy in seeing things run - as you said "FUN running trains!", but possibly less so - if things don't work right - decoupled cars, etc.- as so many beginners on this forum report.

IF one can have as much fun with equipment designed to run on Atlas' 18" curves (40', 50' cars,GP engines) WHY go bigger? or as I said - what's the point??"

[jeffers_mz]

Fun is always my first consideration with this hobby. My recommendation to avoid 6 axle power on 18" curves was made because track problems are already public enemy number one, additional problems brought on by a marginal practice can turn fun into torture.

But the number of people regularly running 6 axle equipment on 18" curves may make me re-think that recommendation, assuming that the track is already handling smaller equipment well.

I may try some of the larger equipment myself, easing into it with a smaller lower cost locomotive and working my way up from there after I see how it runs.

Thanks for the correction, I'd like to run some bigger power and this at least raises the possibility.

[Anonymous]

QUOTE: Originally posted by CP5415

FUN!

Now that's a word that we don't hear very often around here!!!

FUN running trains!

I guess some people want everyone to run prototypically than have FUN.
To each there own I guess.

I know that most kids want to see a train going round & round than do a lot of switching.

I know my 4 year old daughter like to run trains around & around Daddy's layout & I'm using 22" on the mainline. Never had a problem with de-railments. Never had anyone complain about the overhang of the cars or locomotives.
So, what is the problem then?
We obviously have a teenage here with limited income that want's to run large locomotives around a layout that he's putting together & instead of encouragement, he's getting put down by people who say running on an 18" curve won't run well or look right so what's the point!
It's no wonder we don't have many younger people in our hobby as most of the elders are pushing them away saying "Don't do that, that's dumb!"

People need to learn about our hobby. I learned as I went. I started off with 18" curves & had no problems with it. So why can't today's younger generation learn the same way?

Just my rant for the moment!

Gordon J. Drew
Oshawa, ON

Gordon, thanks for reminding everyone about the concept of FUN. Fun is quite okay, and if I like watch my big old honkin' Tower 55 ES44AC looking real silly swinging around an 18" radius (and derailing the cars behind it!), then so be it. Hey, at least it was fun while it lasted!

[Anonymous]

QUOTE: I am probably the only person stuck at a crossing who is SMILING.

Naw, 90% of people here (including me) would be smiling too.

[Anonymous]

Gordon, great post. I am new to the hobby and well past being a teenager (55). I visit a number of train groups/forums to learn and get ideas. One under lying theme I see in a lot of them is some of the people are quick to critisize and dismiss anything that does not meet THEIR standards. My reasons for getting into the hobby are I just like trains, I am probably the only person stuck at a crossing who is SMILING. I enjoy playing with them, yes just watching them run or switching some cars on a siding.
If a person wants to have everything exactly like the prototype that is great. But some of us just like to have fun with it.


Don Altenberger

[CP5415]

FUN!

Now that's a word that we don't hear very often around here!!!

FUN running trains!

I guess some people want everyone to run prototypically than have FUN.
To each there own I guess.

I know that most kids want to see a train going round & round than do a lot of switching.

I know my 4 year old daughter like to run trains around & around Daddy's layout & I'm using 22" on the mainline. Never had a problem with de-railments. Never had anyone complain about the overhang of the cars or locomotives.
So, what is the problem then?
We obviously have a teenage here with limited income that want's to run large locomotives around a layout that he's putting together & instead of encouragement, he's getting put down by people who say running on an 18" curve won't run well or look right so what's the point!
It's no wonder we don't have many younger people in our hobby as most of the elders are pushing them away saying "Don't do that, that's dumb!"

People need to learn about our hobby. I learned as I went. I started off with 18" curves & had no problems with it. So why can't today's younger generation learn the same way?

Just my rant for the moment!

Gordon J. Drew
Oshawa, ON

[bobwrght]

I have no choice but to use 18in radius. I have Life-Like Power Lock track with plastic roadbed on the main line. Joints are tight and level. Below is a list of engines i run all the time, at all speeds without problems. You have to change the coupler on the lead car of the train to a longer shank for greater swing. I run a train of 17-20 cars most of the time. Good track work is the answer.
BLI GG-1's
Atlas 8-40cw's, 1 with sound
Kato Ac4400cw
Proto SD50 and SD60m
Athearn SD40-2
BLI RSD-15 w/sound
Proto E6 and E8
Bachmann 8-40cw's (one does slow down on curves slightly)
Bachmann SD45's
BLI M1a steam, and Hudson
Bachmann Light and Heavy Mountains as well as 2-6-6-2 and 2-10-0
Proto SD-9 and SD-7

I have also run the 8-40cw and Ac4400cw together with no problems. The SD50 and SD60m also run together fine. The Bachmann Heavy mountains also run fine double headed.
My 12yr old grandson and i have had alot of fun the past 2 years. He likes to run fast.

Bob

[Darth Santa Fe]

Most 6 axle diesels will run fine on 18". There are also many large steam engines that can go over an 18" curve easily. My Kato 6 axle SD80MAC makes it over just fine, and so does my 23 axle Bowser 4-6-6-4 Challenger.[:D]

[Don Gibson]

WHATEVER you have may run on 18" curves, but it won't run WELL - or look right - so what's the point??

You're 'extra talented' - or you want to play trains?

Actually, manufactures 'Dumb down' their products, to get them to run on our plywood board curves:
Broadway Ltd uses 73" drivers on engines that actually had 79" (ATSF 4-8-4) - and for a $350 engine;
Others, such as Diesel builders build side/side 'slop' in their trucks, or remove underbody detail in their cars, or move truck placement to navigate 22" and sharp turnouts.

How many of our moder cars arrived with Talgo trucks - that the prototype never had.?

Before anyone offers the excuse of "no room", may I suggest that a simple 4x8 takes up considerly more space than 4X8 to walk around and use it. (10X16?), so it isn't very small - but it IS simple.

Those claiming that 2' aisleways are usable make me wonder what their belt size is.( I had 24" in high school).

[Anonymous]

Shouldn't have any problems, I can get my monsterous Kato SD80MACs and my Rivarossi 4-8-4 around 18"s just fine.

[Soo Line fan]

I run the following 6 axle engines on 18” curves with no problems whatsoever:

Kato SD-40-2
Kato SD-45
P2K SD-60
P2K SD-60M
Athearn F-45
Atlas/Roco SD-24
Atlas/Roco SD-35

Jim

[jeffers_mz]

I don't allow six axle equipment on my 18 inch curves.

There's more than a billion things that can derail a train, track joints, roadbed joints, turnouts, ballast, talgo trucks, X2F couplers, underweight rolling stock, turnout mistakes, etc, etc, etc.

Six axle power might run on the curves, but it might not, and my main goal is to keep the list of possible derailing influences steadily declining, not increasing. We have a six axle MOW derrick, the center axles of each truck have been removed, it won't stay on otherwise. Otherwise, it's all steam and 4 axle power. If this layout ever expands, we'll probably use 24" curves, possibly 30", and only then will we run six axle power, and only on the new sections.

There's plenty to pull hair out over around these parts, and there's a finite amount of hair left to pull. I think you'll be happier in the long run if you knock some of the prime offenders down before they even start causing problems, and six axle power on 18" curves is, IMO, a prime offender.

[ac4400fan]

No you should not have a problem they do like the outside rail raised a bit thow.but you should not have any problems i have 9 AC4400's and my one inside rail i have 1 18" curve and it handles it

Hope this helps

Carl...

[cwclark]

6 axle diesels are "Iffy" running on 18" radius...they can run on it, but very slowly and the track has to be perfect...I have a few athearn locomotives that are 6 axle and they made it around the curve on the 18" radius on my last layout most of the time but once in awhile they would jump off the track....you can put 22" radius on a 4 x 8 ..it barely fits but will work...if you use flex track instead of sectional track you can get it down to 20" radius and the diesel will stay on the track...i took this in consideration on my layout that is 23' x 25' and i don't have any track that is below 24" radius and most of the curves are 30"....chuck

[Anonymous]

You can run them on 18. You may have to put extra weight in the first car, but other than that you'll be fine as LONG AS YOUR TRACKWORK is PERFECT. I couldn't get my AC4400 to run until I tweaked the track.

[loathar]

My Spectrum Dash 8 runs OK on 18". So does my Mikado 2-8-2. I think things like SD's would look better than a Dash or AC.

[CP5415]

Alexander,

You should have no problems running most 3 axle units on an 18" curve.

Gordon

[MisterBeasley]

My P1K Alco RSC-2 has 6 axles and handles 18-inch radius just fine. (Actually, I can't think of anything that isn't "just fine" about that engine.)

[selector]

My BLI Hudson is supposed to run on 18" curves, but mine didn't like them, even when the track was on a well-finished cement floor. If you are talking about a 0-6-0 switcher, it should be fine. I am sure the J1 Hudson should be fine, too, despite my experience.

[Anonymous]

I ran my 2-8-2 Athearn Mikado and Tower 55 UP ES44AC on my 18" radius with no problem. They don't look especially great on that radius, but they will run without derailing.

[Anonymous]

I was wondering weather 6 axle locos will run on 18"curves, as I may be able to get some in the near future. i know i have limitations, like no 2-8-2 steamers, but i am stuck with 4x8 till i get a big shed, happening soon.

Thank you
alexander13