MR Express: What about the new products?

[MRTerry]

This summer has brought a lot of new product announcements, including some new (and large) steam locomotives in HO - and there are more to come. What are your thoughts? How many of you are planning to lengthen your turntables and extend a few stalls in your roundhouses? Could N scale steam be the next trend?
Terry

[MRTerry]

This summer has brought a lot of new product announcements, including some new (and large) steam locomotives in HO - and there are more to come. What are your thoughts? How many of you are planning to lengthen your turntables and extend a few stalls in your roundhouses? Could N scale steam be the next trend?
Terry

[fischey]

Hello. Hope you do not mind the lengthy reply but you sparked my imagination.

I think you kind of got a reply with other subject postings, such as "who needs another Big Boy..." and "..."8 coupled steam..."

I have a friend who went nuts when the Lifelike N&W articulated in N came out. There are buyers out there. Likewise I am sure a good quality Big Boy will always find a home even if it sits up on the shelf. But onward.

I find it interesting that the Ten-wheeler that just came out hasn't had really foaming rave reviews. I really love it... It has the right look, feel, and size for any layout. Not since the 60's with MDC, and Mantua (and others), has such a widely-used but neglected, at least in modelling, American icon been available. Prior general market models were woefully inadequate until now. And the possibilities abound with just this loco!

Bachmann's Consolidation was a godsend. Athearn's USRA light Mike and Pacific are wonderful and they run very well and surprise!-- use a tried and true chassis heretofore reserved for brass. Other releases are coming out, such as a much-needed and accurate 0-6-0. Let's not forget the nice Russian recently released. For the big-minded, the SP AC is being offered by Broadway. Good for them.

On to wants: We need to think about what a provider could market and stay in business with, making HO and N "plastic" engines. To stay in the market for any length of time under present conditions, vendors will have to ensure very goog operating characteristics, excellent and detailed valve gear, and reliability. Metal details or very well cast details, should be standard. Parts such as composite metal/plastic body or boilers, should be the norm. Roco and Llilput/Bachmann are doing a fine job in this area for the European market. Likewise, pre-painted and detailed models are the norm now, like it or not, but some custom parts interchangeablility will make the object more marketable.

I would think that besides "big name" engines such as a Big Boy, an NYC Hudson and the like, modelers are looking for models that can serve on a number of prototype roads. This calls for the USRA designs to start, but also there's room for "shared" designs, such as Alco or Baldwin products that share family similarities among various roads. Harriman and Santa Fe designs would sell, too. Here's my personal list of possibles. Mind you, some exist already on the market, but remember some are deficient (such as Mantua's older designs, or poorly built Mehano and Rivarossi steam).

A really good Mountain. Not a Northern. Mountains were used in everything from two car commuters, to name trains, to crack refrigerated express freight. Offer vandy in oil and coal, and coal or oil in- the- box. Offer an SP skyline boiler shrouding and speed cabs, as aftermarket items or special runs. Offer Eastern cast pilots, regular pilots, and western plough pilots, maybe as plastic interchangeables in the box.

A fine Mikado yard goat with 55" drivers such as an SP Mk1 or 2. These Baldwin-esque or Alco style engines had counterparts everywhere. They can be yard goats or mainline steam, according to the modeler's layout and whim. Of course, I'd go Dunsmuir-crazy if I could have one with a whale-back tender, but that's just me.

Try a Rio Grande C-series standard gauge Consolidation. This would enable the vendor to offer a K-36 in HOn3 as well, by only re-tooling the chassis parts and kicking in the doghouse tender.

A Harriman-era Mogul. Maybe a Schenectady counterpart for the East.

1880's Baldwin Consolidation and Ten-wheeler that have mix and match cab parts, stacks, bells, pumps, lights, and pilots for the various service they played over their sometimes 60- year life. A retrofit Waelschaerts/Baker valve gear/cylinder set to replace the side-valve action to depict a rebuild, could be available as a $29.95 kit. With instructions.

A Santa-Fe or post-Harriman Ten-Coupled engine, but not the really outlandish giants like a "Texas" or "Santa Fe." Probably a 2-10-2 would do it, but one that is generic enough to look like the NP, the MP, T&P, Burlington, Milw, SF, GT, IC, and FRISCO might be seen using. It would necessarily have to be well-engineered to negotiate 24" radii.

And for me, an SP AM-2..... [:I]

Offer one or two doghouse tenders.

The vendor could mix and match parts in various releases to reduce production costs and keep market interest alive.

These are just my thoughts for steam. Seems that everything else, especially buildings, has been touched on and offered in the market over the last few years. Like a cartoon I once saw... commemorative sign before a structure: "only building in Colorado not offered as a kit..."

Thanks for listening, er, reading.

Jim Fischer, somewhere south of Roseville

[fischey]

Hello. Hope you do not mind the lengthy reply but you sparked my imagination.

I think you kind of got a reply with other subject postings, such as "who needs another Big Boy..." and "..."8 coupled steam..."

I have a friend who went nuts when the Lifelike N&W articulated in N came out. There are buyers out there. Likewise I am sure a good quality Big Boy will always find a home even if it sits up on the shelf. But onward.

I find it interesting that the Ten-wheeler that just came out hasn't had really foaming rave reviews. I really love it... It has the right look, feel, and size for any layout. Not since the 60's with MDC, and Mantua (and others), has such a widely-used but neglected, at least in modelling, American icon been available. Prior general market models were woefully inadequate until now. And the possibilities abound with just this loco!

Bachmann's Consolidation was a godsend. Athearn's USRA light Mike and Pacific are wonderful and they run very well and surprise!-- use a tried and true chassis heretofore reserved for brass. Other releases are coming out, such as a much-needed and accurate 0-6-0. Let's not forget the nice Russian recently released. For the big-minded, the SP AC is being offered by Broadway. Good for them.

On to wants: We need to think about what a provider could market and stay in business with, making HO and N "plastic" engines. To stay in the market for any length of time under present conditions, vendors will have to ensure very goog operating characteristics, excellent and detailed valve gear, and reliability. Metal details or very well cast details, should be standard. Parts such as composite metal/plastic body or boilers, should be the norm. Roco and Llilput/Bachmann are doing a fine job in this area for the European market. Likewise, pre-painted and detailed models are the norm now, like it or not, but some custom parts interchangeablility will make the object more marketable.

I would think that besides "big name" engines such as a Big Boy, an NYC Hudson and the like, modelers are looking for models that can serve on a number of prototype roads. This calls for the USRA designs to start, but also there's room for "shared" designs, such as Alco or Baldwin products that share family similarities among various roads. Harriman and Santa Fe designs would sell, too. Here's my personal list of possibles. Mind you, some exist already on the market, but remember some are deficient (such as Mantua's older designs, or poorly built Mehano and Rivarossi steam).

A really good Mountain. Not a Northern. Mountains were used in everything from two car commuters, to name trains, to crack refrigerated express freight. Offer vandy in oil and coal, and coal or oil in- the- box. Offer an SP skyline boiler shrouding and speed cabs, as aftermarket items or special runs. Offer Eastern cast pilots, regular pilots, and western plough pilots, maybe as plastic interchangeables in the box.

A fine Mikado yard goat with 55" drivers such as an SP Mk1 or 2. These Baldwin-esque or Alco style engines had counterparts everywhere. They can be yard goats or mainline steam, according to the modeler's layout and whim. Of course, I'd go Dunsmuir-crazy if I could have one with a whale-back tender, but that's just me.

Try a Rio Grande C-series standard gauge Consolidation. This would enable the vendor to offer a K-36 in HOn3 as well, by only re-tooling the chassis parts and kicking in the doghouse tender.

A Harriman-era Mogul. Maybe a Schenectady counterpart for the East.

1880's Baldwin Consolidation and Ten-wheeler that have mix and match cab parts, stacks, bells, pumps, lights, and pilots for the various service they played over their sometimes 60- year life. A retrofit Waelschaerts/Baker valve gear/cylinder set to replace the side-valve action to depict a rebuild, could be available as a $29.95 kit. With instructions.

A Santa-Fe or post-Harriman Ten-Coupled engine, but not the really outlandish giants like a "Texas" or "Santa Fe." Probably a 2-10-2 would do it, but one that is generic enough to look like the NP, the MP, T&P, Burlington, Milw, SF, GT, IC, and FRISCO might be seen using. It would necessarily have to be well-engineered to negotiate 24" radii.

And for me, an SP AM-2..... [:I]

Offer one or two doghouse tenders.

The vendor could mix and match parts in various releases to reduce production costs and keep market interest alive.

These are just my thoughts for steam. Seems that everything else, especially buildings, has been touched on and offered in the market over the last few years. Like a cartoon I once saw... commemorative sign before a structure: "only building in Colorado not offered as a kit..."

Thanks for listening, er, reading.

Jim Fischer, somewhere south of Roseville

[Anonymous]

It drives me nuts that the really great steamers like mentioned in the post above,
Athearn's 2-8-2 & 4-6-2, Bachmanns 2-8-0, etc only come with coal tenders.
I have one of each, painted for the MKT and had to modify the tender to get
rid of the coal bunker and add oil fill details. I personally have no use for a
twin drivered set locomotive as I like smaller engines and 40 ft cars, but I do
like the idea that these newer bigger engines come with DCC Sound.
DCC with sound is the future, and rightfully so!

[Anonymous]

It drives me nuts that the really great steamers like mentioned in the post above,
Athearn's 2-8-2 & 4-6-2, Bachmanns 2-8-0, etc only come with coal tenders.
I have one of each, painted for the MKT and had to modify the tender to get
rid of the coal bunker and add oil fill details. I personally have no use for a
twin drivered set locomotive as I like smaller engines and 40 ft cars, but I do
like the idea that these newer bigger engines come with DCC Sound.
DCC with sound is the future, and rightfully so!

[Anonymous]

Not at all interested in buying the pre diesel stuff. But, that's fine. All of us have a different take and interest in the hobby.

At the Lionel price of $700 for the Challenger my particular interest is how much more production is going to move into this luxury plastic market of over $500 locomotives. I'm in the $80 price range and getting a bit nervous!

[Anonymous]

Not at all interested in buying the pre diesel stuff. But, that's fine. All of us have a different take and interest in the hobby.

At the Lionel price of $700 for the Challenger my particular interest is how much more production is going to move into this luxury plastic market of over $500 locomotives. I'm in the $80 price range and getting a bit nervous!

[nfmisso]

I am glad they are coming, and I hope for more, especially N&W.

[nfmisso]

I am glad they are coming, and I hope for more, especially N&W.

[Anonymous]

Of course every new product announced and delivered are a plus to all who enjoy the hobby, and everyone has their own well justified favorites. I, like many others, have my own self-centered desires with regards to new model motive power, and I thought I would like to share this with everyone. I hobby in N-gauge, and I would absolutely drool over a production of Jubilee 4-4-4, or a royal hudson 4-6-4. Of course, anybody would be panting for a selkirk 2-10-4, but that might be pushing it.[:D][:p]

[Anonymous]

Of course every new product announced and delivered are a plus to all who enjoy the hobby, and everyone has their own well justified favorites. I, like many others, have my own self-centered desires with regards to new model motive power, and I thought I would like to share this with everyone. I hobby in N-gauge, and I would absolutely drool over a production of Jubilee 4-4-4, or a royal hudson 4-6-4. Of course, anybody would be panting for a selkirk 2-10-4, but that might be pushing it.[:D][:p]

[Anonymous]

Any CPR or CNR/GTW would be really great.

About the Challenger's being released, why? There already is the Rivarossi challengers, certainly there are other big articulateds out there that haven't yet been modelled, such as a Yellowstone. With both Athearn and Lionel putting out the Challenger, neither is going to make the profits needed to continue manufacturing, and all will go kaput. Competition is good, but if it means all the manufacturers are going to make the same thing, then no one wins.

Also, with the exception of Bachmann, no-one seems to be making steam locomotives that can fit realisticly on small layouts, sure the BLI Hudson can go around 16" curves, but the passenger cars can't, and on something up to 8x12, it's really to big. Likewise with the articulateds and mallets, only those with huge layouts can actually use them, and they seem to end up buying a half dozen of them!

When was the last time someone produced a 4-4-0? Something as widespread as that will always be a great seller, with 10,000's of them built and used from the early days right up to the end of steam.

Broadway Limited also seems to be really trying to go bankrupt, with about 1 new loco a month for the next year, and with all of them large locomotives, do they really thinik they will be able to stay afloat?

Lionel's return to HO should've been with a locomotive that isn't available on the new market, such as light engines, but with a Challenger already produced by Rivarossi and Athearn coming out with one, one has to ask why? That is not the way to get back into a market.

And another thing that bothers me is the lack of Canadian road names on production models and their mention in reviews. Both the CPR and CNR used many standard US designs, and CPR's Fowler box car was the most widely seen with something over 75,000 produced. With the exception of Life-Like Canada, to get Canadian roadnames on the models you seem to either get custom painted ones, or do it yourself.

[Anonymous]

Any CPR or CNR/GTW would be really great.

About the Challenger's being released, why? There already is the Rivarossi challengers, certainly there are other big articulateds out there that haven't yet been modelled, such as a Yellowstone. With both Athearn and Lionel putting out the Challenger, neither is going to make the profits needed to continue manufacturing, and all will go kaput. Competition is good, but if it means all the manufacturers are going to make the same thing, then no one wins.

Also, with the exception of Bachmann, no-one seems to be making steam locomotives that can fit realisticly on small layouts, sure the BLI Hudson can go around 16" curves, but the passenger cars can't, and on something up to 8x12, it's really to big. Likewise with the articulateds and mallets, only those with huge layouts can actually use them, and they seem to end up buying a half dozen of them!

When was the last time someone produced a 4-4-0? Something as widespread as that will always be a great seller, with 10,000's of them built and used from the early days right up to the end of steam.

Broadway Limited also seems to be really trying to go bankrupt, with about 1 new loco a month for the next year, and with all of them large locomotives, do they really thinik they will be able to stay afloat?

Lionel's return to HO should've been with a locomotive that isn't available on the new market, such as light engines, but with a Challenger already produced by Rivarossi and Athearn coming out with one, one has to ask why? That is not the way to get back into a market.

And another thing that bothers me is the lack of Canadian road names on production models and their mention in reviews. Both the CPR and CNR used many standard US designs, and CPR's Fowler box car was the most widely seen with something over 75,000 produced. With the exception of Life-Like Canada, to get Canadian roadnames on the models you seem to either get custom painted ones, or do it yourself.

[Anonymous]

Please check out the Lionel announcment forum for the reactions of people to the 700 price range.

[Anonymous]

Please check out the Lionel announcment forum for the reactions of people to the 700 price range.

[Anonymous]

I love big steam, but I can only use (and afford!) so much of it. What I'd like to see is a "generic" smaller 2-8-0 - a "Harriman" Consol such as that offered by MDC lo these many years, or even the Varney/Bowser "Old Lady." Most railroads had some permutation of an early-1900's-vintage 2-8-0 on the roster, and a model built to contemporary standards in detailing and operation would HAVE to sell - and keep selling. Optional parts and/or versions could make such a model well-nigh "universal" in its appeal.

And I'd like to see the same for a Ten-Wheeler - again, the hoary MDC and Varney/Bowser versions could be updated.

Oh, and yes - on both models, please offer optional valve gear and cylinders, so that Stephenson or outside motion could be applied to suit the modeler's prototype and/or whim.

And why not a 4-4-2? And cast another vote for a 4-4-0.

Jim

Grove City, OH

[Anonymous]

I love big steam, but I can only use (and afford!) so much of it. What I'd like to see is a "generic" smaller 2-8-0 - a "Harriman" Consol such as that offered by MDC lo these many years, or even the Varney/Bowser "Old Lady." Most railroads had some permutation of an early-1900's-vintage 2-8-0 on the roster, and a model built to contemporary standards in detailing and operation would HAVE to sell - and keep selling. Optional parts and/or versions could make such a model well-nigh "universal" in its appeal.

And I'd like to see the same for a Ten-Wheeler - again, the hoary MDC and Varney/Bowser versions could be updated.

Oh, and yes - on both models, please offer optional valve gear and cylinders, so that Stephenson or outside motion could be applied to suit the modeler's prototype and/or whim.

And why not a 4-4-2? And cast another vote for a 4-4-0.

Jim

Grove City, OH

[Anonymous]

How about some 48ft. refer containers and while we're about it, some genpak containers to power them. It's funny to see one manufacturer build 53ft well cars and another build 53ft containers, I'm glad the 53ft cars weren't like their 48ft. cars that could only take 40ft containers. How about a 56ft. connected spine car that can carry containers from 20 to 53ft. in legnth or 2 28ft or 40-53ft. trailers. I see all these items crossing Iowa every day . Walt Kulpa Newton,Ia.

[Anonymous]

How about some 48ft. refer containers and while we're about it, some genpak containers to power them. It's funny to see one manufacturer build 53ft well cars and another build 53ft containers, I'm glad the 53ft cars weren't like their 48ft. cars that could only take 40ft containers. How about a 56ft. connected spine car that can carry containers from 20 to 53ft. in legnth or 2 28ft or 40-53ft. trailers. I see all these items crossing Iowa every day . Walt Kulpa Newton,Ia.

[Anonymous]

I'm hoping for a Padukah GP9/10 in HO. That should fill a quite sizeable gap in the loco market.

Jon Grant, UK

[Anonymous]

I'm hoping for a Padukah GP9/10 in HO. That should fill a quite sizeable gap in the loco market.

Jon Grant, UK

[Anonymous]

A standard Baldwin logging/shortline 2-8-2 has been needed for years. I'm sure Baldwin built hundreds of this catolog model. You could place a saddle tank on make it one of the "Minarette" style locomotives, or you can place a narrow gauge chassis under it and model the EBT! You can offer the locomotive as slide valve or piston valve and use different valve gears. I'm pretty sure they also built side tank versions on the same chassis.

RTR steam has been hitting an all time high in quality this year. Lets hope this continues with more offerings!

Smokebox

[Anonymous]

A standard Baldwin logging/shortline 2-8-2 has been needed for years. I'm sure Baldwin built hundreds of this catolog model. You could place a saddle tank on make it one of the "Minarette" style locomotives, or you can place a narrow gauge chassis under it and model the EBT! You can offer the locomotive as slide valve or piston valve and use different valve gears. I'm pretty sure they also built side tank versions on the same chassis.

RTR steam has been hitting an all time high in quality this year. Lets hope this continues with more offerings!

Smokebox

[OhioRailroader]

I think the new steamers are nice, but a little pricey even for what they have installed and include. Maybe they will come down in cost if enough people buy them. Yeah, I'm dreaming, lol.

What I'd really like to see is a 4-6-2 in the streamline sheetmetal used on the B&O's "Cincinnatian." But I have only seen or heard of, I think, 2 or 3. 1 was a brass version, although I can't afford or find one, and the others are not really as accurate as they need to be in color and detail.

Also, a passenger car set to go with that of modified heavy weight cars. Maybe I missed something, but I have yet to see any of that in person and maybe come across even the lower version, let alone the brass.

Ehh, maybe I missed some somewhere, I'm always on the lookout even when I can't buy.

[OhioRailroader]

I think the new steamers are nice, but a little pricey even for what they have installed and include. Maybe they will come down in cost if enough people buy them. Yeah, I'm dreaming, lol.

What I'd really like to see is a 4-6-2 in the streamline sheetmetal used on the B&O's "Cincinnatian." But I have only seen or heard of, I think, 2 or 3. 1 was a brass version, although I can't afford or find one, and the others are not really as accurate as they need to be in color and detail.

Also, a passenger car set to go with that of modified heavy weight cars. Maybe I missed something, but I have yet to see any of that in person and maybe come across even the lower version, let alone the brass.

Ehh, maybe I missed some somewhere, I'm always on the lookout even when I can't buy.

[tomwatkins]

I'm delighted with the new products, especially the the reasonably priced plastic shelled steam locomotives. Since I model the Southern and the L&N, I don't have a need for Challengers or Big Boys, but most of what i really need is now available or soon will be. I'm really looking forward to Broadway Limited's heavy mike. I run DCC with Sountraxx decoders so they will fit right in and save me some time and work.

What would I like to see? First choice would be a Southern Railway PS-4 heavy pacific. Second would be an L&N H-28 or 29 consolidation. Since all three are sufficiently different from anything else including the USRA heavy pacifics it probably isn't going to happen but it doesn't hurt to hope. I'd also like to see a USRA double sheathed 40' boxcar done with with separate grabs and other details ala Intermountain or Branchline, and as a kit rather than RTR.

[tomwatkins]

I'm delighted with the new products, especially the the reasonably priced plastic shelled steam locomotives. Since I model the Southern and the L&N, I don't have a need for Challengers or Big Boys, but most of what i really need is now available or soon will be. I'm really looking forward to Broadway Limited's heavy mike. I run DCC with Sountraxx decoders so they will fit right in and save me some time and work.

What would I like to see? First choice would be a Southern Railway PS-4 heavy pacific. Second would be an L&N H-28 or 29 consolidation. Since all three are sufficiently different from anything else including the USRA heavy pacifics it probably isn't going to happen but it doesn't hurt to hope. I'd also like to see a USRA double sheathed 40' boxcar done with with separate grabs and other details ala Intermountain or Branchline, and as a kit rather than RTR.