Turnouts and DCC questions

[rrinker]

I'd check the loco out a little bit - a big E-unit with 12 wheel pickup should NOT stall on an unpowered frog. I haven't powered mine yet and my little Alco and Baldwin switchers cna creep over them without the headlight blinking. My PCM T-1 initially would cut out when creeping at minimum speed - til I found al oose wire which effectively eliminated all pickup from one side of the loco - leaving only 2 wheels on one side of the tender on the right side of the loco. When these wheels were on the unpowered frog - stutter. Once I fixed the loose wire I allowed the loco to creep around the layout - somethign like 20-25 minutes to circle the 8x12 loop, that's how slow it can run, and not once did the sound cut out or the loco hesitate.
Now, if you want to run one of those little MDC Model 40's.... they will NEVER make it over an unpowered frog.

--Randy

[whitman500]

I recently installed the new Walthers turnout and found that for my BLI E-6, it stalled on the unpowered frog (powering the frog eliminated this problem). I had similar problems on my old layout with the Atlas CL turnouts so if you want to run sound you should consider powering the frogs.

[tomikawaTT]

Instead of soldering the point-end rail joiners, or relying on the joiners themselves to carry track power to the turnout, just solder a short jumper around each joint. It's a lot easier to unsolder (or clip) a jumper than it is to unsolder a joiner.

As for powering the frog, I own a couple of compact-wheelbase items that would be very unhappy if I didn't. My MU cars pick up from one side of each 4-wheel truck, and the trucks are way too short to span a dead frog.

[rrinker]

No great big hole, just a small one next to each wire. My feeder wires are #22 wire, I think at Home Depot it was labelled as alarm wire or something, came in a red and white pair arrangment, solid conductor. The red and white happened to match the colors of #12 I chose for my power bus - red and white because int he dark under the benchwork, red and black would look very much the same.
For me to remove a turnout I would slide these joiners back on to the adjacent track, freeing the turnout, and then just lift it off. I use a TINY bit of caulk when placing them under the frog end - NEVER near the moving parts. Just enough so they stay in place while I continue the track on.
I mentioned the single hoel idea if you want to solder the wires directly to the turnout track, you could probbaly do this at the bench before installign the turnout, and tuck allt he wires up underneath and run them down through one hole - or just tie them all together under the turnout and run a single pair of wires down. Heavy gauge wire ins't needed - only one loco can really occupy a turnout at a time so you won;t have 10 amps through this wire - plus over short distances there would be neglible loss. But it all seems like overkill to me. I'll have one wire actually soldered to the turnout and that's the frog power wire.

--Randy

[Blind Bruce]

Randy,
If I understand you correctly, you solderwires to the bottom of all six joiners of a turnout. Do you feed the wires down an enlarged hole to allow sliding them for removal?
BB

[rrinker]

Since I put feeds to all 3 les of any turnout at the joiner - I think it is plenty reliable. Considerign that for non-power-routing turnouts, all the legs are connected to each other in some fashion internally, I've got 3 points of power so that if even 2 fail I still have power.
Solid construction is good. Overkill is a waste of time and money. Keep it simple. If you really must, solder the wires to the turnout and bring them all down at a single point, tied to a terminal strip. If you have to remove the turnout, slide back the joiners, disconnect the two wires from the terminal strip, and lift out.

--Randy

[Don Gibson]

EVERYBODY:

With the arrival of DCC, Engines need to have all wheels picking up electricity to insure getting past the DCC manditory 'dead' frogs. Atlas 'Custom line' and 'Snap switches have used this design for 50 years.

Some engine manucactures - to cut corners - have limited their electrical pickup to certain wheels - for example Rivarossi's Blue Goose gets it's power from the trailing trucks.

[Don Gibson]

Bruce:

Walthers "DCC friendly" turnout SHOULD have jumpers to connect the rails on both sides of the frog to the outside rails, which is why you should feed it with solder connections. That leaves the insulated frog for 'routing' via the switch machine.

When hooked up this way, short electrical wheelbase locos will go right through.

[fwright]

BB

To answer your question: I would attach the various feeders via solder - or if the turnout has it, a set screw. I would make the feeders about 8 inches long of relatively light wire, 22-24 gauge, and connect to the feeders with heavier wire below.

Then to remove the turnout, clip the feeder at the connections below (you won't lose much wire), slide the rail joiners off, and lift the turnout vertically, bringing the feeders with the turnout up through the holes in the roadbed.

When installing a new turnout, having feeders preinstalled and feeding them through the holes as you lower the turnout into place seems much easier to me.

my way - your way may be better
Fred W

[Anonymous]

QUOTE: Originally posted by jrbernier

Bruce,

I have Atlas CL turnouts with the 'dead' metal frog on my layout. I have never had to power them. Most newer engines have 'all wheel' power pickup and should have no problem bridging the gap. Even with 'DCC Friendly' turnouts, you can short out the system if you run a switch that is set against you. Think about some kind of 'power district' management(I use a Digitrax PM42 to seperate the layout into 4 'districts'). That way a problem on one side of the layout does not force a shutdown of the DCC booster and stop everyone!

Jim

Same here. I use Atlas CL and have never needed to power the frogs.

[Anonymous]

I have installed 24 of the new Walthers DCC ready turnouts and have had no problems. All of my locomotives, steam and diesel, go through them with no hesitation. They certainly make wiring turnout frogs a thing of the past.

[jrbernier]

Bruce,

I have Atlas CL turnouts with the 'dead' metal frog on my layout. I have never had to power them. Most newer engines have 'all wheel' power pickup and should have no problem bridging the gap. Even with 'DCC Friendly' turnouts, you can short out the system if you run a switch that is set against you. Think about some kind of 'power district' management(I use a Digitrax PM42 to seperate the layout into 4 'districts'). That way a problem on one side of the layout does not force a shutdown of the DCC booster and stop everyone!

Jim

[Blind Bruce]

Sorry Don, I forgot to mention that they are all new DCC friendly turnouts. I havve several short wheebase locos and presume that I will need to "enliven" the frog from the Tortoise contacts.
BB

[Don Gibson]

OLD Walthers turnouts were the Power routing type.
NEW Walthers turnouts are the DCC 'friendly' type.
It makes a difference!

ALL turnouts should be fed from the point end - to the OUTSIDE rails which the points touch. (Solder conection).

POWER ROUTING types benefit from feeding the frog from a switch machine's SPDT contacts - for reliability.

DCC 'Friendly' types should have * jumpers bypassing the frog. (the frog is dead).
By feeding this frog - if metal - with the switch machine's SPDT contacts, it prevent's stalling with locomotives.(Insurance).

* jumpers connect points and frog rails to outside rails.

[Anonymous]

Bump!

[Blind Bruce]

It has been said many times in this forum (and I agree), not to solder turnout connectors. This is to allow reasonable removal in case of trouble. The question arises that we should then attach feeder wires to the input and diverging rails. Add to this a powered frog and you have a lot of wires to contend with when changing a turnout. If these feeders are not installed, are the connectors reliable enough to give good electrical contact?
I'm just now trying to install my first Walthers code 83 with Tortoise control and the situation came up. What do you think?
BB