Are European model makers better than ours?

[Supermicha]

Nice discussion. But i think you can´t compare the european and the us market.

Many american modlers prctaice the "fleeting" by buying 5 or more engines of one type. For that, its good when they are cheaper.

And we have no kits or undecs, because years ago we had only one big railroad, so nobody wants to paint its engines for it self.

Most german models are produced in germany and so they are expensive. Especially Roco engines have an outstanding detail and very good power drives.

But i love my american models.... The germans are too expensive *lol*

[Supermicha]

Nice discussion. But i think you can´t compare the european and the us market.

Many american modlers prctaice the "fleeting" by buying 5 or more engines of one type. For that, its good when they are cheaper.

And we have no kits or undecs, because years ago we had only one big railroad, so nobody wants to paint its engines for it self.

Most german models are produced in germany and so they are expensive. Especially Roco engines have an outstanding detail and very good power drives.

But i love my american models.... The germans are too expensive *lol*

[Anonymous]

Some yes - some no.

There is a wide variation in the cost and quality of British/European model railway items.

Germany's Fleischmann ,Marklin & Trix are excellent quality, but very expensive. Austria's Roco is excellent quality and a more reasonable price. The previously Austrian Liliput range is now Bachmann's and made in China - good quality at a reasonable price.

Bachmann's British OO range set new standards a few years ago, but have now been surpassed by Hornby's latest offerings in terms of both quality and price, ever since Hornby moved production to China.

Lima's offerings, before their demise last summer, were generally poorer quality but were cheap, so offered good value for money. Right now, the secondary value of Lima items in the UK are higher than the last retail prices.

It really is a case of you pay your money and take your choice. I am sure the same can be said for items in the US.

Bob

[Anonymous]

Some yes - some no.

There is a wide variation in the cost and quality of British/European model railway items.

Germany's Fleischmann ,Marklin & Trix are excellent quality, but very expensive. Austria's Roco is excellent quality and a more reasonable price. The previously Austrian Liliput range is now Bachmann's and made in China - good quality at a reasonable price.

Bachmann's British OO range set new standards a few years ago, but have now been surpassed by Hornby's latest offerings in terms of both quality and price, ever since Hornby moved production to China.

Lima's offerings, before their demise last summer, were generally poorer quality but were cheap, so offered good value for money. Right now, the secondary value of Lima items in the UK are higher than the last retail prices.

It really is a case of you pay your money and take your choice. I am sure the same can be said for items in the US.

Bob

[Anonymous]

Tricky question! My experience of 'mainland' European locos is limited to Fleischmann and Minitrix N, both of which I would recommend without hesitation.

As far as OO/HO is concerned, it varies. Lima OO scale locos tended to be absolute dogs where running was concerned, I have 3 which will not run anything like as slowly as my Proto 1k locos. Hornby are far better despite using "pancake" motors on most of their diesel range (Their new Class 50 has a proper drive system with big motor, twin flywheels, etc). Bachmann OO diesels are superb, barring a few opinions over the shape of some of the bodyshells. If you're looking for something a little different, their Class 24/Class 25 locos are amazing runners (quiet and smooth as Protos), look great and are very reasonably priced.

As far as HO-scale European locos are concerned, I would recommend the Roco Class 215 (A German diesel-hydraulic loco). This is available in their "hobby" range (these have less detail, moulded handrails, etc - very much like Proto 1k) but it still has a great chassis/motor and a DCC socket. They're also very reasonably priced compared to most European HO locos.

[Anonymous]

Tricky question! My experience of 'mainland' European locos is limited to Fleischmann and Minitrix N, both of which I would recommend without hesitation.

As far as OO/HO is concerned, it varies. Lima OO scale locos tended to be absolute dogs where running was concerned, I have 3 which will not run anything like as slowly as my Proto 1k locos. Hornby are far better despite using "pancake" motors on most of their diesel range (Their new Class 50 has a proper drive system with big motor, twin flywheels, etc). Bachmann OO diesels are superb, barring a few opinions over the shape of some of the bodyshells. If you're looking for something a little different, their Class 24/Class 25 locos are amazing runners (quiet and smooth as Protos), look great and are very reasonably priced.

As far as HO-scale European locos are concerned, I would recommend the Roco Class 215 (A German diesel-hydraulic loco). This is available in their "hobby" range (these have less detail, moulded handrails, etc - very much like Proto 1k) but it still has a great chassis/motor and a DCC socket. They're also very reasonably priced compared to most European HO locos.

[Anonymous]

I was a H0 Euro - modeler until 1996 - Germany, Austria and Switzerland - then I start with H0 USA. My first Model was the Märklin 3000 0-6-0T with two freightcars - X-mas 1969 - was twoandahalf!

US manufactors make today better models than in 1996. But sometimes I miss the kits!!!

The biggest different: THE PRICES !!!! Roco was great in the end 70´s and 80´s. But today they want a lot of money for a model that was also available in the 80´s for 50% of todays price!!! And passengercars are often to much detailed - Who needs a superdetailed underbody when the car was equipped with skirts?

(BTW: I know that the new Rivarossi FEF-3 was produced in China, signed as MADE IN ITALY and in the box are this little warranty cards of ROCO!! COURIOUS !!!!!)

Many german manufactors own facilitys in Easteurope or China but sell the models as MADE IN GERMANY.

The very good Broadway Limited PRR Duplex will cost here the same than a simple Märklin steamer - built with forms made in 1980!
And the Märklin / Trix Bigboy is extreme expensive!!!!!!!!!! - BRASS PRICE!!!!
Märklin is extreme expensive, and Roco or Fleischmann are not much better.

I buyed a Athearn CF7 a few month ago - paid 79 Euro. The model is very good detailed and need only a little work before being perfect! A European model in such a quality will cost more than 120 Euro! (Yes I know the Euro is better than the Dollar today but thats no real reason!)
You will say: What du you want? 79 is expensive against 49 for a Piko!" WRONG !!!!!
Cheap models like this from Roco or Piko are extreme simple locos, colored plastic instead of paint, w/o DCC plug, Pantographs w/o function.

Roco is for me the same level than KATO. I paid for KATO´s AC4400 in UP paint 122 Euro. A similar Roco model = 200 Euro!

One fact is absolute better here than in the USA I think: WE HAVE A LOT WELL SORTED SHOPS HERE - MY HOME TOWN HAS 33.000 RESIDENTS AND WE HAVE THREE SHOPS HERE!

[Anonymous]

I was a H0 Euro - modeler until 1996 - Germany, Austria and Switzerland - then I start with H0 USA. My first Model was the Märklin 3000 0-6-0T with two freightcars - X-mas 1969 - was twoandahalf!

US manufactors make today better models than in 1996. But sometimes I miss the kits!!!

The biggest different: THE PRICES !!!! Roco was great in the end 70´s and 80´s. But today they want a lot of money for a model that was also available in the 80´s for 50% of todays price!!! And passengercars are often to much detailed - Who needs a superdetailed underbody when the car was equipped with skirts?

(BTW: I know that the new Rivarossi FEF-3 was produced in China, signed as MADE IN ITALY and in the box are this little warranty cards of ROCO!! COURIOUS !!!!!)

Many german manufactors own facilitys in Easteurope or China but sell the models as MADE IN GERMANY.

The very good Broadway Limited PRR Duplex will cost here the same than a simple Märklin steamer - built with forms made in 1980!
And the Märklin / Trix Bigboy is extreme expensive!!!!!!!!!! - BRASS PRICE!!!!
Märklin is extreme expensive, and Roco or Fleischmann are not much better.

I buyed a Athearn CF7 a few month ago - paid 79 Euro. The model is very good detailed and need only a little work before being perfect! A European model in such a quality will cost more than 120 Euro! (Yes I know the Euro is better than the Dollar today but thats no real reason!)
You will say: What du you want? 79 is expensive against 49 for a Piko!" WRONG !!!!!
Cheap models like this from Roco or Piko are extreme simple locos, colored plastic instead of paint, w/o DCC plug, Pantographs w/o function.

Roco is for me the same level than KATO. I paid for KATO´s AC4400 in UP paint 122 Euro. A similar Roco model = 200 Euro!

One fact is absolute better here than in the USA I think: WE HAVE A LOT WELL SORTED SHOPS HERE - MY HOME TOWN HAS 33.000 RESIDENTS AND WE HAVE THREE SHOPS HERE!

[Anonymous]

QUOTE: Originally posted by bit2in

I just started in train modeling & bought all european train sets.I have the Fleischmann Ice,Roco's E-Loc,Piko's Hupac & a Hornby Locomotive.I like the looks of their trains.Unlike american trains especially the diesel which are boxy looking.I also like Japanese trains,in fact I just bought Bachmann/Tenshodo Bullet train set.

I started in this hobby with Marklin in 1953 and even though I model the NYC, I still get a kick out of watching a fine roco or marklin loco run. Euro modeling is differant, and gives me a nice break from American RR. As for quality, most American loco's have Japanese or Euro movements inside. The only exception that I can think of is Athearn, still a great loco and getten better.

[Anonymous]

QUOTE: Originally posted by bit2in

I just started in train modeling & bought all european train sets.I have the Fleischmann Ice,Roco's E-Loc,Piko's Hupac & a Hornby Locomotive.I like the looks of their trains.Unlike american trains especially the diesel which are boxy looking.I also like Japanese trains,in fact I just bought Bachmann/Tenshodo Bullet train set.

I started in this hobby with Marklin in 1953 and even though I model the NYC, I still get a kick out of watching a fine roco or marklin loco run. Euro modeling is differant, and gives me a nice break from American RR. As for quality, most American loco's have Japanese or Euro movements inside. The only exception that I can think of is Athearn, still a great loco and getten better.

[Anonymous]

I just started in train modeling & bought all european train sets.I have the Fleischmann Ice,Roco's E-Loc,Piko's Hupac & a Hornby Locomotive.I like the looks of their trains.Unlike american trains especially the diesel which are boxy looking.I also like Japanese trains,in fact I just bought Bachmann/Tenshodo Bullet train set.

[Anonymous]

I just started in train modeling & bought all european train sets.I have the Fleischmann Ice,Roco's E-Loc,Piko's Hupac & a Hornby Locomotive.I like the looks of their trains.Unlike american trains especially the diesel which are boxy looking.I also like Japanese trains,in fact I just bought Bachmann/Tenshodo Bullet train set.

[Yampa2003]

Having spent many years modeling German and Swiss N scale, I would say that the likes of Fleischmann and Minitrix are superior to virtually anything US. However, I gave up modeling N and went over to US HO scale because I was disillusioned with the quality of the structures. I could have chosen German / Swiss HO but the price was more than double that of US outline. No way would I touch Briti***hough, as JamesT1 says, Bachmann is considered a quality line - Say no more. Its a shame though.
At a recent train show I attended, some of the British models were having to run at a scale 100mph and that was not the High Speed Trains (HST) either.

[Yampa2003]

Having spent many years modeling German and Swiss N scale, I would say that the likes of Fleischmann and Minitrix are superior to virtually anything US. However, I gave up modeling N and went over to US HO scale because I was disillusioned with the quality of the structures. I could have chosen German / Swiss HO but the price was more than double that of US outline. No way would I touch Briti***hough, as JamesT1 says, Bachmann is considered a quality line - Say no more. Its a shame though.
At a recent train show I attended, some of the British models were having to run at a scale 100mph and that was not the High Speed Trains (HST) either.

[Anonymous]

Hey Scottydog; Would you believe, I work for a major telco company and have been stubborn to the hilt about buying a computer. I have 5 at work and all speak a differant language. Why in the world would I want to come home to one these maniacle black boxes, but this year the family told me to buy or else, so I bought.[:)]

[Anonymous]

Hey Scottydog; Would you believe, I work for a major telco company and have been stubborn to the hilt about buying a computer. I have 5 at work and all speak a differant language. Why in the world would I want to come home to one these maniacle black boxes, but this year the family told me to buy or else, so I bought.[:)]

[Anonymous]

Some European models are just as good as American prototype locos, but only the top makes - some of which, as in many American locos, are now produced in the far east. I'd single out Roco and Bemo (Swiss narrow gauge) as pretty hard to beat.

The average run of the mill European model is probably a lot worse than the average American loco and many times the price. In particular British outline modelling is abismal for a start the manufacturers insist on sticking to OO scale (ie 4mm/ft scale rather than 3.5mm/ft) but use HO 16.5mm guage track which is horribly under gauge! When I say that Bachman entered the British market a few years back, they improved the quality a huge amount and gave the other manufacturers something to think about - you'll understand how low the quality had got!

I choose to model US prototypes in HO (in part) because the mechs runs so well, the detail is fantasic and unless you're a serious brass addict the prices won't brake the bank.

[Anonymous]

Some European models are just as good as American prototype locos, but only the top makes - some of which, as in many American locos, are now produced in the far east. I'd single out Roco and Bemo (Swiss narrow gauge) as pretty hard to beat.

The average run of the mill European model is probably a lot worse than the average American loco and many times the price. In particular British outline modelling is abismal for a start the manufacturers insist on sticking to OO scale (ie 4mm/ft scale rather than 3.5mm/ft) but use HO 16.5mm guage track which is horribly under gauge! When I say that Bachman entered the British market a few years back, they improved the quality a huge amount and gave the other manufacturers something to think about - you'll understand how low the quality had got!

I choose to model US prototypes in HO (in part) because the mechs runs so well, the detail is fantasic and unless you're a serious brass addict the prices won't brake the bank.

[Anonymous]

Yes and no.

Stean, generally better, but there's a HUGE market over there for good steam locomotives. They're about midway between our better plastic stuff (P2K, Spectrum) and Brass, about equivalent to BLI's stuff. However, there are compromises, especially with respect to drivers (Those huge NEM flanges produce massively undersized drivers) blind flanges and the presence of traction tires and such.

As to Diesel and Electrics, our best plastic stuff is significantly better than anything European. They're still stuck back in the days of Traction tires and power trucks, with decent detail (Better than Bluebox, maybe P1K level, not as good as Atlas Master or Genesis). They don't have anything that compares with the best P2K or Genesis Units.

Remember though that European models are generally intended to run on massively undersized curves (Fleischmann's track set uses a default of ~12" radius curves for example.) and up ridiculous grades (up to 10-15% at times). They also tend to run more tinplate-style layouts than we do (Although there still is a heavy amount of more realistic layouts, if smaller than the North American Average). So the market's different, and so are the products.

I have a small Fleischmann collection, and love it. I'll be adding to it, but not at the expense of my North American stuff.

[Anonymous]

Yes and no.

Stean, generally better, but there's a HUGE market over there for good steam locomotives. They're about midway between our better plastic stuff (P2K, Spectrum) and Brass, about equivalent to BLI's stuff. However, there are compromises, especially with respect to drivers (Those huge NEM flanges produce massively undersized drivers) blind flanges and the presence of traction tires and such.

As to Diesel and Electrics, our best plastic stuff is significantly better than anything European. They're still stuck back in the days of Traction tires and power trucks, with decent detail (Better than Bluebox, maybe P1K level, not as good as Atlas Master or Genesis). They don't have anything that compares with the best P2K or Genesis Units.

Remember though that European models are generally intended to run on massively undersized curves (Fleischmann's track set uses a default of ~12" radius curves for example.) and up ridiculous grades (up to 10-15% at times). They also tend to run more tinplate-style layouts than we do (Although there still is a heavy amount of more realistic layouts, if smaller than the North American Average). So the market's different, and so are the products.

I have a small Fleischmann collection, and love it. I'll be adding to it, but not at the expense of my North American stuff.

[Anonymous]

yep for sure , all the flishman stuff its way better than the top quality americian stuff , i have a friend how had americian stuff then sold it all and went to german stuff , and everyday he rubs it in about how much better it is , but i dont care , i still like the american stuff

[Anonymous]

yep for sure , all the flishman stuff its way better than the top quality americian stuff , i have a friend how had americian stuff then sold it all and went to german stuff , and everyday he rubs it in about how much better it is , but i dont care , i still like the american stuff

[Anonymous]

Hey Emeraldisle,
How come you are only now getting on . With your experience on European models, you could have helped us sinners a lot?

[Anonymous]

Hey Emeraldisle,
How come you are only now getting on . With your experience on European models, you could have helped us sinners a lot?

[Anonymous]

Some European models are absolute gems--I have a Roco BR103 that's beautiful--and some are dogs--I have two Lima locomotives that are trash. My wife is in Germany visiting her sister, and I gave her a wish list--I just hope I can afford anything nice.

Incidentally, the last two European locos I bought are from Piko--the boxes say "made in China."

Gary

[Anonymous]

Some European models are absolute gems--I have a Roco BR103 that's beautiful--and some are dogs--I have two Lima locomotives that are trash. My wife is in Germany visiting her sister, and I gave her a wish list--I just hope I can afford anything nice.

Incidentally, the last two European locos I bought are from Piko--the boxes say "made in China."

Gary

[Anonymous]

But I'm going to keep buying them.

[Anonymous]

But I'm going to keep buying them.

[Anonymous]

I know, I wish I had bought more in Germany.