Homasote Technical Question for those that have used it...

[Anonymous]

Alright, I'm still in search of the perfect roadbed for handlaying track.

I understand the thickness of Homasote varies quite a bit when you buy it in sheets.

Now, would I be able to rip it into 1.5" wide strips on a table saw, then lay it on edge and trim the original thickness of the material, so that all of my roadbed stock is the same thickness?

I'm trying to understand if it's a homogoeneuous product (where it's like solid stuff made of the same material all the way through the thickness), or if it's more like corrugagted cardboard, or an oreo cookie, where there's a "skin", then "guts", etc. - in which case reducing the thickness would not work.

Yes, before anyone suggests it, I'm aware of the Homabed product (but at $1/foot, I'm determined to find another method, and I enjoy the table saw labor anyway).

Yes, I know it's dusty.

The idea would be to trim it to a constant thickness, then cut in slots so I could curve it, then lay it and paint it to seal it to prevent dimensional changes.

Thanks for any advice

Edit: Thanks to Homasotes dealer locator on their website, I just found a couple places in my area that don't stock it, but could order me a single 4x8 sheet at a time if I'd like. I'm awaiting a price right now. So I could get the stuff, I just can't get my hands on it until I buy it.

Sometimes I feel like MRR'ing is a midwest/east coast hobby, because half of the materials called out in MR are hard to find in CA!

[Virginian]

It is homogeneous all the way through, and I have not run across any but the smallest variation in thicknesses. Be advised there are different kinds of Homasote. Study the website.
I do not saw it, I cut it with a razor knife. Very easy and no dust. Do not press hard, and make sure your cut line is at the edge of a step down for the piece you are cutting off so there is room for the board to bend down slightly and provide knife clearance. After one or two passes with an edge guide, the blade will follow the cut without a guide. With a little practice you can do curves too.

[Anonymous]

Virginian - how small of a variation in thickness? .100", .020", etc.? Some people make it sound like the variation is quite large (including David Barrow in some MR articles).

Thanks for the info!

Also, I'm referring to Homasote 440 (the guy at the building supply was even familiar with this number, which I was happy to hear! - he called it, "standard 440")

[Anonymous]

Carr,

I don't recommend ripping it on edge like you are suggesting. The pieces will be 1/2" thick and pretty flimsy to try and rip accurately in a table saw. My recommendation is to be real choosy in selecting the pieces. I have found perfect pieces if you are willing to look hard enough. Go to a lumber yard that regularly stocks homasote. I usually have them bring me four pieces from the yard and I carefully inspect them all to find the one that has no dips and bumps in it. BTW: I live in California as well. My local yard stocks homasote.

[Anonymous]

Just got a call back - no longer can I buy single sheets from this distributor. Bummer. I'll keep looking.

Thanks Trainnut!

[Anonymous]

QUOTE: Originally posted by CARRfan

Just got a call back - no longer can I buy single sheets from this distributor. Bummer. I'll keep looking.

Thanks Trainnut!

I bought a sheet at Home Depot. I had to keep asking the people there until they figured out what it was. I cut it with a sabre saw, and did not notice any thickness problems when I layed down track. Do it outside and use a face mask, because paper dust flies everywhere, and it's not good for your lungs.

[nbrodar]

I've used a lot of Homasote in the past, and never had a problem with it varing in thickness. The problem I had, was the sheets were wavy from improper storage. Another thing to concider, is that because it's pressed paper, Homasote is swells when exposed to moisture. I've never found it to be a big problem, (I laminated it to plywood), but other modelers have reported large dimention changes.

Nick

[cuyama]

for a smaller layout, you might be happiest with homabed. Pre-cut, planed down for consistent thickness, not all that expensive when you consider the amount of waste you might have from cutting your own.
http://www.homabed.com/

[fwright]

My Internet connection crashed as I was completed my answer on your other thread, and am starting over.

I have never noticed any variations in Homasote thickness, but all my experience was in 4x8 or smaller layouts, where I used a single sheet. I glued the Homasote to the plywood, and cut out both plywood and Homasote together using a jig saw for where the track would be. The rest of the grid was eventually covered by plaster on fiberglass screen wire. Since all the plywood /Homasote was raised up from girder level by risers, any vertical uneveness over a longer span would have been compensated for by the risers. Local vertical irregularities - whether it be Homasote, glue, or tie thickness variances are taken care of by sanding the ties before spiking rail. I use a 9" long sanding boat of 1x2 with the ends rounded for sanding ties. Size of boat enables me to cut strips of sandpaper from regular 180 grit sheets and mount with push pins. I sand ties along track line until stain is visibly sanded on all ties - means top of ties are now all at same horizontal plane. I use full profile ties (not low profile) so I have material to sand.

I saw one of the MR project railroads a couple of years ago encountered almost a 1/2" variation in thickness in a single 2" thick 4x8 sheet of foam. That gave me pause.

One of the selling points of L-girder framing (partially true for open grid too) is that poorer quality materials or workmanship (more typical case for me) that results in non-level, non-square, and/or non-true benchwork will be compensated for when installing the risers and roadbed. Same would apply to Homasote or other roadbed if you set your final riser height with roadbed in place. Tie sanding is the final correction for problems over shorter distances.

Remember, the end goal is to end up with a rail spiking surface that is truly level or at the desired grade, with no dips or bumps.

yours in not so great carpentry
Fred W

[selector]

QUOTE: Originally posted by fwright
One of the selling points of L-girder framing (partially true for open grid too) is that poorer quality materials or workmanship (more typical case for me) that results in non-level, non-square, and/or non-true benchwork will be compensated for when installing the risers and roadbed. Same would apply to Homasote or other roadbed if you set your final riser height with roadbed in place. Tie sanding is the final correction for problems over shorter distances.

Remember, the end goal is to end up with a rail spiking surface that is truly level or at the desired grade, with no dips or bumps.

yours in not so great carpentry
Fred W

I am glad you persisted to post your reply, Fred. Thank-you. Your observation, that I have cribbed in this quotation, is an astute observation, and not to be discounted by someone who is thinking about building a substantial layout.

[Anonymous]

I have used homosote for over 45 years as a top surface on all my layouts HO and G scale. I have had heated basements and a dehumidifier in the summer. Swelling or movement was never a problem and my homosote was screwed down, not glued. If you eliminate the moisture, you eliminate the chance of swelling.

If you can buy all of the homosote at the same time from the same bundle or batch run, it should be the same thickness. It is when you buy a sheet and then a few months later you buy another sheet you may see variations in thickness. Menards (like a Lowes) used to sell precuts, 4by 4 and 2 by 4 and here you would have variation in thickness.

Doug

[Anonymous]

Doug, where do you live?

I'm 31 years old, and since I was about 15, I'd occasionally browse for the stuff at Lowe's, Home Depoet, etc. here in California. I have never actually seen the stuff in my life.

In an MR article from 1989, Bob Smaus mentions how he's never found a supplier in CA, but ordered it from back east. I checked, and the place he ordered it from is gone.

So far, unless I order a crate of the stuff, I seem to be out of luck.

[Anonymous]

See this and be happy!

www.homabed.com

[ClinchValleySD40]

What you are describing is actually spline made with homasote. People do that, in fact Allen McClelland uses this. No need to cut slots in it. If you rip the sheet of homasote into strips about 1 1/2" wide and stand them on edge, it works great. You'll need about 4 strips in HO to do single track roadbed.

[cuyama]

QUOTE: Originally posted by CARRfan
I'm 31 years old, and since I was about 15, I'd occasionally browse for the stuff at Lowe's, Home Depoet, etc. here in California. I have never actually seen the stuff in my life.

Did you try the dealer finder on Homasote's web site
http://homasote.com/where.html
I just picked an area at random in So Cal and called.

Stock Lumber in North Hollywood, CA has 27 sheets of half-inch Homasote 440 in stock today, according to the clerk who answered the phone. I don't know anything about the company, except that they have several locations around So Cal and a number of them stock Homasote.

As with foam board, the big box stores are ususally not the best source in CA for Homasote.

I'd still suggest the Homabed for a layout the size you've been discussing recently. Less muss, less fuss.

Good luck

[jrbernier]

The local Home Depot(MN) has 2 by 4 'handi-panels' of the stuff(so does Menards). I used sheets of it back in 1972 on a 8' by 13' layout. Glued/screwed it to 1/2" plywood and laid track. My current layout has 'Homabed' - well worth the extra cost(no big mess). This stuff is great to spike into. The cost is less than $1/ running foot.

Jim Bernier

[Anonymous]

Cuyama,

Yeah, I may have to start calling into the Los Angeles area as you did. Yes, I used the Homasote dealer finder page. Called a couple places in my area. Will have to call out of the area - probably tomorrow - trying to get some work done that I get paid for at the moment [:)]

Maybe if I stop posted on this forum...

[cacole]

A dustless way to cut Homosote is a smooth knife edged blade in a saber saw. Any home supply store that sells blades should have these in stock. The blade may get so hot that it scorches the Homosote as it cuts through, so you have to take it easy, but it is completely dustless.

Unless the Homosote has been in a wet environment, differences in thickness should be so negligible as to be meaningless. If it has gotten wet, it will swell up, so if you live in a damp environment it should be sealed on both sides to prevent moisture absorption. Homosote is compressed, recycled paper

I use Sound Board, aka Upson Board, instead of Homosote because it is not affected at all by moisture and is easier to find at home supply stores.

[Anonymous]

Cacole, one of the places I called this morning said they had sound board also - but that sounds like sort of a generic term.

Could you describe it some? Do you spike into it?

[Anonymous]

I have found homosote at the building supply places and at lumber yards. Presently I am in northwestern Pennsylvania and I bought it at my local lumberyard. The stuff is getting expensive, it was about $20.00 a sheet.

[Virginian]

I just checked several pieces left over from several sheets. Maximum thickness variation is maybe 0.011", and that was just in one spot where it may have been hit and dented.
It is available in different thicknesses also I believe. I used all 7/16" on this last layout. I think the propensity of Homasote to change dimensions is waaaaaaay overstated. The wood is a far worse offender than the Homasote.
Feel free to hate it if you like, but I love it.

[Anonymous]

Virginian, thanks for taking those measurements. 11 thousandth's isn't bad - cutting pine on my table saw will probably be as sloppy or worse.

Now I just have to track down the stuff...

Just need to spend some time making phone calls - hopefully tomorrow.

Cacole - very interesting way of cutting the stuff! Thanks!

[cacole]

CARRfan,

Sound Board is a brown, fiberous material made by Celotex Corporation. It comes in half-inch thick 4 x 8 foot sheets and is used primarily for sound deadening in apartment walls and as an insulator. It can be cut with any saw. A friend of mine used it for his layout top and hand-laid all of his track. It holds spikes very well.

I have built two HO scale layouts using sound board -- one a 20x40 foot club layout and the other a home layout. I put down two layers on top of hollow core doors, fastened with industrial grade carpet adhesive. On the club layout we used cork roadbed and Atlas flex track fastened with plain sewing pins instead of nails. On my home layout I am using foam roadbed and Peco code 83 flex track fastened with clear latex caulking.

My friend's home layout is on hollow core doors with one layer of sound board, cork roadbed, and hand-laid code 100 rail on redwood crossties glued in place with caulking.

We have had excellent results with sound board on all 3 layouts.

[RedGrey62]

I've built a couple of 4X8s with homasote. I did find some variation in the thickness but the issue was quickly resolved with a sanding block to ease the transition from one sheet to the other.

Rick

[Anonymous]

Guys,

I bought my first piece of homasote with 1/8" dips and humps in it. I have rejected a dozen more with similar issues on shopping expeditions. We are talking a mostly flat piece with a narrow spot or hump in one section. I had to fix these humps by filling and sanding. Sanding homasote is right up there in my book with cleaning the catbox....I do try to avoid it (the catbox is inevitable, sanding homasote is not if you are careful with the selection of pieces). Take along a small straight edge on your shopping expedition.. You might be surprised.

To find homasote try the big lumber yards/building supply dealers that the local contractors buy big dimensional lumber from, not the box stores. I have been able to locate it at these places....

[JDCoop]

I don't know how many LHS's stock it, but I do know that my LHS, Chuck's Depot in Marion, Illinois keeps it in stock. The owner buys a pallet at a time, but has to drive to St. Louis to pick it up (about 1.5 hours one-way). He tried to get it through local lumber yards but they didn't want to mess with it. He's a firm believer in Homasote (as am I) and he wanted to make it readily available to his customers.

Also, I strongly second the suggestion to use a knife blade in a saber saw. As luck would have it, my LHS also keeps those in stock.

Jeff

[Don Gibson]

HOMASOTE is pressed (laminated) cardboard. It used to be sold by the building industry for insulation. 40 years ago layouts with Homasote on top of sheets of ply were S.O.Proceedure.

MAIN problem when combining sheets was where they joined. Carboard absorbs moisture, and getting smooth transtitions - and keeping them - is fun. Sheets also varied in thickness one end to the other. Cutting can be done without dust, but planing cannot.

HOMASOTE has great sound deadening properties.. it's main virtue, now that costs have increased.

[MidlandPacific]

QUOTE: No need to cut slots in it. If you rip the sheet of homasote into strips about 1 1/2" wide and stand them on edge, it works great. You'll need about 4 strips in HO to do single track roadbed.

One potential problem with this is expansion and contraction due to humidity - there was an excellent piece in MR some years ago on Paul Larson's Mineral Point & Northern, which was built with just this kind of roadbed, and he apparently had all kinds of trouble with handlaid track working itself out of gauge and developing kinks when the roadbed shifted.

I used sheet homasote laid on sheet plywood, and I haven't had any problems with expansion or contraction, and it's very easy to cut out the roadbed and elevate it on risers. The homasote's sound-deadening qualities are as good as everyone here has suggested.

[dinwitty]

in the club I was in...

We bevel cut 8 foot lengths, so it has the ballast angle.
for curves, we edge sliced the lengths on alterating sides to get it to bend for the curves. We had a specilized manner to lay roadbed, pieces of 1x3 were slotted
on the end to accept lattice wood, about 1/4"x3/4" long pices of wood, and were dropped into the slots, this is what the homosote is laid on. Really good for maing curves and easements.
We used L-Girder benchwork.
Homosote works FINE.
really good for hand laying. I look at alterantive boards, sorry, no good.

Dont worry about thickness differences, ever see a perfect prototype track?
Thats why trucks have equalizers and springs.
well the prototype does...

[ClinchValleySD40]

[
One potential problem with this is expansion and contraction due to humidity - there was an excellent piece in MR some years ago on Paul Larson's Mineral Point & Northern, which was built with just this kind of roadbed, and he apparently had all kinds of trouble with handlaid track working itself out of gauge and developing kinks when the roadbed shifted.

I used sheet homasote laid on sheet plywood, and I haven't had any problems with expansion or contraction, and it's very easy to cut out the roadbed and elevate it on risers. The homasote's sound-deadening qualities are as good as everyone here has suggested.