backdrop alternatives

[vsmith]

Hello, I want to install a desert scenic backdrop 24" high and about 30' long along the back of my layout but I cant afford a photo backdrop and my artistic ability to paint a landscape backdrop is pretty bad. I've heard of people using wallpaper backdrops and I wanted to know if anyone has had experience with this or has some other suggestions on doing backdrops, Thanks for any ideas.

[vsmith]

Hello, I want to install a desert scenic backdrop 24" high and about 30' long along the back of my layout but I cant afford a photo backdrop and my artistic ability to paint a landscape backdrop is pretty bad. I've heard of people using wallpaper backdrops and I wanted to know if anyone has had experience with this or has some other suggestions on doing backdrops, Thanks for any ideas.

[Anonymous]

I"m looking at a 1996 Walthers catalogue, but Instant Horizons has some desert scenes; each one is 24" high and 36" long. There are three that you might like, 949-703, 949-705 and 949-706 (I really like this one). In 1996 they were $8.00 so I imagine they are close to that now.

I used a Faller's product (no desert scene) mounted to hard board (masonite) 1/8" thick and applied with matte modge podge - this gave some working time. You will need two people to put it up.

[Anonymous]

I"m looking at a 1996 Walthers catalogue, but Instant Horizons has some desert scenes; each one is 24" high and 36" long. There are three that you might like, 949-703, 949-705 and 949-706 (I really like this one). In 1996 they were $8.00 so I imagine they are close to that now.

I used a Faller's product (no desert scene) mounted to hard board (masonite) 1/8" thick and applied with matte modge podge - this gave some working time. You will need two people to put it up.

[vsmith]

I have looked at those Walthers backdrops, but I wanted to avoid having a seam every 36" plus I would need about 12 of them (over 30 feet long) There are really only 3 desert scenes and two mountain scenes I could use and it could look pretty repetitive. I'm keeping those in mind as an option, but I wanted to see how creative others have been to solve this problem. Thanks for the reply.

[vsmith]

I have looked at those Walthers backdrops, but I wanted to avoid having a seam every 36" plus I would need about 12 of them (over 30 feet long) There are really only 3 desert scenes and two mountain scenes I could use and it could look pretty repetitive. I'm keeping those in mind as an option, but I wanted to see how creative others have been to solve this problem. Thanks for the reply.

[Anonymous]

This is a link to the "best" method to do a backdrop I have found on the net. It isn't a desert theme, but instead of painting the back hills green, make the cut out of the hills more gently rolling and paint them a sand colour.

For anyone interested in backdrops check this link out; it is done in steps as a how to:

http://www.the-gauge.com/forums/showthread.php?s=&threadid=2906

[Anonymous]

This is a link to the "best" method to do a backdrop I have found on the net. It isn't a desert theme, but instead of painting the back hills green, make the cut out of the hills more gently rolling and paint them a sand colour.

For anyone interested in backdrops check this link out; it is done in steps as a how to:

http://www.the-gauge.com/forums/showthread.php?s=&threadid=2906

[dknelson]

In my humble opinion, based on years of reading MR and visiting lots of layouts ... I think most backdrops are too detailed. The more detailed a backdrop the more flat and perspectiveless (to coin a word?) even the best photos look, and the more detailed a backdrop the more you notice how close it is to the trains when you visit a layout. This is particularly true of clouds.

For that reason a backdrop of the kind you are interested in should be the right colors and shapes but it can be a bit vague on detail -- and that means it is perhaps more within your abilities as an "artist" than you might think.

I recently saw a layout where the backdrop was vinyl flooring, a long strip that the guy picked up for free at a job site. Very very effective and it can be bent to very tight curves. I have explored using aluminum flashing such as you can buy at hardware stores but you cannot readily get it in lengths like flooring.

Dave Nelson

[dknelson]

In my humble opinion, based on years of reading MR and visiting lots of layouts ... I think most backdrops are too detailed. The more detailed a backdrop the more flat and perspectiveless (to coin a word?) even the best photos look, and the more detailed a backdrop the more you notice how close it is to the trains when you visit a layout. This is particularly true of clouds.

For that reason a backdrop of the kind you are interested in should be the right colors and shapes but it can be a bit vague on detail -- and that means it is perhaps more within your abilities as an "artist" than you might think.

I recently saw a layout where the backdrop was vinyl flooring, a long strip that the guy picked up for free at a job site. Very very effective and it can be bent to very tight curves. I have explored using aluminum flashing such as you can buy at hardware stores but you cannot readily get it in lengths like flooring.

Dave Nelson

[wp8thsub]

I would suggest keeping it simple, using basic shapes painted essentially one color. If your foregroud is tan in color (which not all deserts are), distant mountain shapes typically acquire a purple cast. Find some good prototype photos and take them to the paint store to get a few matching colors mixed.

In my opinion, most of the commercial backdrops hurt realism more than they help, although some very nice layouts use them. No matter how great your 3-D scenery, put an Instant Horizons generic desert behind it and immediately viewers recognize that same overused scene again. Also, most commercial backdrops or wallpapers have more detail than the foregrounds of our layouts, which distracts attention from the foreground and kills the effect of distance. I would make an exception to the rule for city scenes, which are often effective if highly detailed.

And no backdrop is better than a poor one. If you really can't make even a simple scene come out to your satisfaction, leave the backdrop plain blue. If you can, try to fade the blue with white toward the horizon to help the effect of atmospheric perspective. An absolute killer is badly done clouds, so avoiding them is often a good idea too.

For those wanting more info, I give some advice on the Allen Keller tape #27 of Lee Nicholas' Utah Colorado Western on designing backdrops as well as painting a simple scene. It's not like I'm getting any royalties here, but several modelers have told me they found the information useful.

Rob Spangler
WP 8th Sub
Layton, UT

[wp8thsub]

I would suggest keeping it simple, using basic shapes painted essentially one color. If your foregroud is tan in color (which not all deserts are), distant mountain shapes typically acquire a purple cast. Find some good prototype photos and take them to the paint store to get a few matching colors mixed.

In my opinion, most of the commercial backdrops hurt realism more than they help, although some very nice layouts use them. No matter how great your 3-D scenery, put an Instant Horizons generic desert behind it and immediately viewers recognize that same overused scene again. Also, most commercial backdrops or wallpapers have more detail than the foregrounds of our layouts, which distracts attention from the foreground and kills the effect of distance. I would make an exception to the rule for city scenes, which are often effective if highly detailed.

And no backdrop is better than a poor one. If you really can't make even a simple scene come out to your satisfaction, leave the backdrop plain blue. If you can, try to fade the blue with white toward the horizon to help the effect of atmospheric perspective. An absolute killer is badly done clouds, so avoiding them is often a good idea too.

For those wanting more info, I give some advice on the Allen Keller tape #27 of Lee Nicholas' Utah Colorado Western on designing backdrops as well as painting a simple scene. It's not like I'm getting any royalties here, but several modelers have told me they found the information useful.

Rob Spangler
WP 8th Sub
Layton, UT

[Anonymous]

One thing I cannot stand is a store-bought backdrop. In my opinion, such a generic approach does exactly the opposite of what we expect scenery to do, which is to place the railroad into a real-world setting. By denying the specifics of your geography and setting, you relegate your rail line to traversing a bunch of Nowhere-Specifics, which is little better than simply placing track on a finished wooden shelf.

I saw an article in MR a long ways back that described a technique of painting that began with projecting photographic slides onto the blank backdrop, tracing out the major shapes in pencil then turning off the projector to paint in a sort of color-by-number method. Of course, this means acquiring some decent slide images, which means a railfanning trip to wherever you're modelling. Which, of course, is an undue hardship, right?

These days you can do something similar with digital photos, which on the computer can be enlarged to whatever size they need to be, and also be edited using Photoshop or other similar software, to get rid of out-of-scale elements and unwanted detail. With practice, you can learn how to piece together multiple shots to create long panoramas, and then once you've got it all done it can be printed out by a specialty printer (hey, maybe even Kinko's), possibly even onto a heavy stock or vinyl.

I would suggest painting your own sky blue and then doing everything else below the horizon as a separate cutout; even if there's only 1/16 of an inch of separation between sky and ground, your eye perceives it and you get the feeling that the sky continues endlessly, and that you're really looking at a horizon.

[Anonymous]

One thing I cannot stand is a store-bought backdrop. In my opinion, such a generic approach does exactly the opposite of what we expect scenery to do, which is to place the railroad into a real-world setting. By denying the specifics of your geography and setting, you relegate your rail line to traversing a bunch of Nowhere-Specifics, which is little better than simply placing track on a finished wooden shelf.

I saw an article in MR a long ways back that described a technique of painting that began with projecting photographic slides onto the blank backdrop, tracing out the major shapes in pencil then turning off the projector to paint in a sort of color-by-number method. Of course, this means acquiring some decent slide images, which means a railfanning trip to wherever you're modelling. Which, of course, is an undue hardship, right?

These days you can do something similar with digital photos, which on the computer can be enlarged to whatever size they need to be, and also be edited using Photoshop or other similar software, to get rid of out-of-scale elements and unwanted detail. With practice, you can learn how to piece together multiple shots to create long panoramas, and then once you've got it all done it can be printed out by a specialty printer (hey, maybe even Kinko's), possibly even onto a heavy stock or vinyl.

I would suggest painting your own sky blue and then doing everything else below the horizon as a separate cutout; even if there's only 1/16 of an inch of separation between sky and ground, your eye perceives it and you get the feeling that the sky continues endlessly, and that you're really looking at a horizon.

[ndbprr]

Try contacting your local high school, church groups, etc. You could probably hire a high school kid who could do what you want for less than it will cost you to do the papering. Many young artists have no outlet for their talent and would welcome the opportunity to be creative. That being said the hardest part of painting from a guy who thought the same as you was just starting. I practiced doing sky and cloud work on the side of cardboard boxes using regular old flat latex paints for walls and now do a pretty credible job at it. I think my cloud work is better than most I see in the magazines. It is a lot easier than what we imagine mentally. After you do something step back and evaluate it. then decide what changes need to be done on the next practice project. The key for me was to blend things while the paint was wet. If you watch some of the PBS shows where artists do paintings in a half hour you will learn a lot about technique. Since most desert is really pretty flat it should just be a case of blending the color into the sky at the horizon line and shouldn't pose any demanding work or effort. Cacti may be a little different issue but practice a little and you will be surprised at the results. I do all my sky work with a four inch brush and don't get into the real fine stuff. Painting a desert should be similar. You could always use glue and real sand (just kidding).

[ndbprr]

Try contacting your local high school, church groups, etc. You could probably hire a high school kid who could do what you want for less than it will cost you to do the papering. Many young artists have no outlet for their talent and would welcome the opportunity to be creative. That being said the hardest part of painting from a guy who thought the same as you was just starting. I practiced doing sky and cloud work on the side of cardboard boxes using regular old flat latex paints for walls and now do a pretty credible job at it. I think my cloud work is better than most I see in the magazines. It is a lot easier than what we imagine mentally. After you do something step back and evaluate it. then decide what changes need to be done on the next practice project. The key for me was to blend things while the paint was wet. If you watch some of the PBS shows where artists do paintings in a half hour you will learn a lot about technique. Since most desert is really pretty flat it should just be a case of blending the color into the sky at the horizon line and shouldn't pose any demanding work or effort. Cacti may be a little different issue but practice a little and you will be surprised at the results. I do all my sky work with a four inch brush and don't get into the real fine stuff. Painting a desert should be similar. You could always use glue and real sand (just kidding).

[AntonioFP45]

Vsmith

NDPRR, gives some great advice. Check with Art Instructors at local or technical schools. If you're leary about someone doing the work in your house, consider asking the instructor if you could drop off an already constructed background panel for the artist to work on. Fees involved are usually cost of materials or a donation depending on the school district policies.

I personally would go for a blue sky with minimal "thin clouds" rather than a highly detailed background so as to "accent" the layout rather than detract from it.

[AntonioFP45]

Vsmith

NDPRR, gives some great advice. Check with Art Instructors at local or technical schools. If you're leary about someone doing the work in your house, consider asking the instructor if you could drop off an already constructed background panel for the artist to work on. Fees involved are usually cost of materials or a donation depending on the school district policies.

I personally would go for a blue sky with minimal "thin clouds" rather than a highly detailed background so as to "accent" the layout rather than detract from it.

[MAbruce]

Wow!! [:0][:0] July 2003?? [:0]

You really dug up this topic deep from the archives!

[MAbruce]

Wow!! [:0][:0] July 2003?? [:0]

You really dug up this topic deep from the archives!

[vsmith]

Yikes! A whole year has gone by already and STILL no backdrop! [:0]

Just to update this topic, I have installed masonite 2x4 sheets along the backdrop and painted these a "sky blue" but have not installed a commercial backdrop. I have purchased a couple of Walther's desert backdrops. I was planning to mount them to artist board, cut out the sky, and color the edges to match the scenery, but I cant reconsile a way of mounting them to the backdrop without ending up with a very noticable seam every 36 inches. That plus the stupid clouds are overlapping the scenery in a couple of locations. I will try this technic and see how it looks. If I like the 3D effect of using a seperate mounting surface I will continue around the layout where I need some kind of background scenery. If I dont like it I am going to try hand painting it keeping it very simple. [;)]

Luckily when I downsized the layout I eliminated over 2/3's of the backdrop scenery. Now I have about 10 feet of backdrop before the built foreground scenery will take over and mask the sky painted backdrop already installed.[:D]

[vsmith]

Yikes! A whole year has gone by already and STILL no backdrop! [:0]

Just to update this topic, I have installed masonite 2x4 sheets along the backdrop and painted these a "sky blue" but have not installed a commercial backdrop. I have purchased a couple of Walther's desert backdrops. I was planning to mount them to artist board, cut out the sky, and color the edges to match the scenery, but I cant reconsile a way of mounting them to the backdrop without ending up with a very noticable seam every 36 inches. That plus the stupid clouds are overlapping the scenery in a couple of locations. I will try this technic and see how it looks. If I like the 3D effect of using a seperate mounting surface I will continue around the layout where I need some kind of background scenery. If I dont like it I am going to try hand painting it keeping it very simple. [;)]

Luckily when I downsized the layout I eliminated over 2/3's of the backdrop scenery. Now I have about 10 feet of backdrop before the built foreground scenery will take over and mask the sky painted backdrop already installed.[:D]

[orsonroy]

If you've already installed the backdrop and painted it sky blue, just cut off the sky portion of the preprinted backdrop. It's a lot simpler than trying to blend in the printed sky color and clouds with the existing backdrop. If you do cut away the sky, darken the white edge of the backdrop with a black marker, or craft paint of a similar color as the printed ground, to minimize the visual seperation. Mount the backdrop with 3M spray mount adhesive (that's what it's designed for).

Or....grab yourself some craft paints and cheap brushes from your local hobby source (Hobby Lobby, not your LHS) and use the printed backdrop as a visual guide while you paint the backdrop yourself. Believe me, it's not that difficult! The hardest part is starting.

[orsonroy]

If you've already installed the backdrop and painted it sky blue, just cut off the sky portion of the preprinted backdrop. It's a lot simpler than trying to blend in the printed sky color and clouds with the existing backdrop. If you do cut away the sky, darken the white edge of the backdrop with a black marker, or craft paint of a similar color as the printed ground, to minimize the visual seperation. Mount the backdrop with 3M spray mount adhesive (that's what it's designed for).

Or....grab yourself some craft paints and cheap brushes from your local hobby source (Hobby Lobby, not your LHS) and use the printed backdrop as a visual guide while you paint the backdrop yourself. Believe me, it's not that difficult! The hardest part is starting.

[FJ and G]

WHy not just simply declare it a hazy day on the ole pike and leave the "backdrop" (drywall) a white or off-white? No big deal here.

Dave Vergun

[FJ and G]

WHy not just simply declare it a hazy day on the ole pike and leave the "backdrop" (drywall) a white or off-white? No big deal here.

Dave Vergun

[simon1966]

I have been taking hrizon shots myself with a digital camera. I have been experimenting with a program I picked up off e-bay called "The Big Picture Program". This allows an image to be enlarged and spit over several sheets of paper. An overlap can be set, so that you can easily construct longish segments for the back drop. So far I have be quite pleased with the results. My printer is not really up to snuff, but the experimental pictures I have tried so far look good. I am mainly using tree lines and distant hills set low, so there is not much detail in the images, mounted on sky painted masonite backdrop. The program can be seen at www.bigpictureprogram.com but I got it for less from e-bay.

[simon1966]

I have been taking hrizon shots myself with a digital camera. I have been experimenting with a program I picked up off e-bay called "The Big Picture Program". This allows an image to be enlarged and spit over several sheets of paper. An overlap can be set, so that you can easily construct longish segments for the back drop. So far I have be quite pleased with the results. My printer is not really up to snuff, but the experimental pictures I have tried so far look good. I am mainly using tree lines and distant hills set low, so there is not much detail in the images, mounted on sky painted masonite backdrop. The program can be seen at www.bigpictureprogram.com but I got it for less from e-bay.

[CBQ_Guy]

QUOTE: For those wanting more info, I give some advice on the Allen Keller tape #27 of Lee Nicholas' Utah Colorado Western on designing backdrops as well as painting a simple scene. It's not like I'm getting any royalties here, but several modelers have told me they found the information useful.

Rob Spangler
WP 8th Sub
Layton, UT

Coincidentally, I was watching this video just last night!

Yes, Rob does a good presentation (and I also really like the mole concept of staging, BTW) and I recommend getting a copy of this video to see it if at all possible.

[I've no affiliation with Keller Video, or even Rob for that matter! But as I said , I like and recommend the demo on this tape.]

[CBQ_Guy]

QUOTE: For those wanting more info, I give some advice on the Allen Keller tape #27 of Lee Nicholas' Utah Colorado Western on designing backdrops as well as painting a simple scene. It's not like I'm getting any royalties here, but several modelers have told me they found the information useful.

Rob Spangler
WP 8th Sub
Layton, UT

Coincidentally, I was watching this video just last night!

Yes, Rob does a good presentation (and I also really like the mole concept of staging, BTW) and I recommend getting a copy of this video to see it if at all possible.

[I've no affiliation with Keller Video, or even Rob for that matter! But as I said , I like and recommend the demo on this tape.]