Benchwork around the wall

[jackn2mpu]

How is the whole thing fastened to the wall itself. I would want at least lag bolts into the studs. Then I would want the shelf hangers to be extra heavy duty steel. Your trains will weigh more tha a shelf full of books, especially when you lean on it to fix something in the back. If by joists you mean the sehf braces them selves, you will need a lot more bracing to hold them up. You cannot bolt a 1x3 to anything and have it firm. If you cannot put diagonal braces in I would want at least 6 full inches where they attach to the vertical pieces.

I sincerely doubt the trains will weigh more than if that same shelf was filled with books. Unless you're running large scale stuff, but HO or N - not a problem. Been there, done that.

[BDT in Minnesota]

Yep,,,,just read it,,,    I have a simular project going that I have put in the "delay mode" for the last couple of years.....I can always use a new idea, to ponder, if nothing else........

As far as any rental property,,many places even frown upon an unauthorised coat of paint,,,It is still someone else's property..In this case; Seems a modular would be a better choice....

BDT

[Don Z]

um.... maybe I missed something... Can somebody tell me why this thread is being hauled out again after 1-1/2 years?

It appears BDT in Minnesota just read it and decided to reply, not knowing that Electrolove selected a rental site for his layout and can't attach anything to the walls.....

Don Z.

[stokesda]

um.... maybe I missed something... Can somebody tell me why this thread is being hauled out again after 1-1/2 years?

[jfugate]

Electro:

I thought you were just renting your train room and the owner doesn't want you drilling into the walls or doing anything that would need to be uninstalled? Your original idea of the free-standing benchwork was better for a rented train room, if you ask me.

[BDT in Minnesota]

What do you guys think of this idea for a double deck benchwork? The lumber bolted to the wall are 2" x 2", 24" center to center. The joist are 1" x 4" narrowed down to 1" x 2" at the end, and 24" maximum length. Will it be strong enough?

NO Cigar!!! Stud that wall up like any other wall in your house....anchor the top plate to the joists and anchor the bottom plate to the floor,,, if that is an exterior wall, seal the concrete wall first with waterproofing if not done allready...Being in Minnesota, I put 2" thick 4'x8' of hi density foam board insulation sheets on the concrete, and then studded up the wall....This wall can then be properly wired with extra outlets, have extra fiberglass insulation added between the studs, and then paneled or sheetrocked...  Now you will have a wall on which you can hang a heavy shelf on.  Any braces or brackets will be easy to install.....If you compare the cost of doing it this way as compared to buying all those concrete anchors and lag screws, and good 2x2s that won't split, you will notice that job can be done for less, and be much stronger, quieter, warmer, and more moisture proofed... I  used the 2x2s when I finished a basement room at my folk's place 33 years ago....There is no comparison to those walls and the 2x4 walls I am finishing up in my trainroom downstairs....Just remember to put in some extra outlets in the wall, and a wall switch to control the outlets is a big plus.........Sooner or later, someone will lean against or bump up against the shelf units,,,just make sure the shelfs are ready for that unexpected event.....BDT

[Budliner]

this is great I feel like I can see the trains running on it now
what a good idea


k

[ARTHILL]

Anchoring the joists in concrete can be done, but those have to be heavy anchors, for when one losens it all comes down. Metel anchors are better than plastic. Those shot in with a gun work if you use the right charge. I am assuming you have all the right advice on specs, but if not, get them. What you have can work very well and it can come crashing down as well.

[Anonymous]

Well unless you are using large chunks of granite or something for your scenic base, the system as you show should work well. However as was mentioned I would increase the elevation between levels.

James

[SpaceMouse]

As shown, I think you are going to have problems. If you have only 2x2 on the wall then when you attatch the joists you are going to be attatching them at best wiht 3/8" machine bolts 3/4 inch from the end of the joist. I could rip that off with one hand.

In addition even if you drill the hole only 1/16 greater than the diameter of the bolt that will allow an inch or so of play on the outer edge.

Go with the steel like some one above suggested.

[Leon Silverman]

Arthill's suggestion regarding steel hangers would dictate substituting the steel tracks that the hangers are attached to. Sticking with the 4" wooden joist, they should be attached to the 2 x 2's with two screws three inches apart. The uprights should be attached to the wall with one screw between these two screws and two screws located 2'' and 3" on either side of this point for a total of five screws at each junction.
Make just one joint like this and see if it can support your weight. If not, add steel joint reinforcing strips . If that does not work, you might want to consider using a 16" spacing instead of the 24" spacing. These joists have to support you and your subroadbed weight at a minimum. Closing down the spacing to 16" or less will spread your weight accross two or three joists at a time. Checking other threads on this forum, however, I think you will find that the 16" spacing is the preferred spacing to avoid sagging. This probably can be avoided if you use at least a two or three inch fascia on the front of the subroadbed. It would definitly be required if you find that a single joist cannot support your weight and you do not want to change the spacing. Substituting steel angle (u-channel) brackets for the wooden joists would also eliminate the question about weight capacity .
This suggestion assumes your wall is solidly anchored. Twenty-four inch spacing will not work if the studding behind the wall is spaced at 16 inch centers. Likewise, 16" spacing will not work if your studding is spaced at 24''. You may wind up with only one in three or four of the uprights actuallly supporting the weight of the platform.

[potlatcher]

I've seen several articles in the press where they cut their "joists" (as we are apparently referring to the horizontal members that project from the wall to support the layout) out of 3/4" plywood with a half arch shape to them. That is, there is a curved taper toward the wall such that the joist may be 3" deep near the front of the layout, and 8-10" deep as it nears the wall. This shape gives the joists almost as much strength as if they tapered back at a 45-60 degree angle while allowing more room for structures or a curved sky backdrop. The most recent example of this I can think of is in Model Railroad Planning 2005, where Mike Schafer used this on his midwest-themed layout.

As a mechanical engineer I would feel a lot more comfortable with this design if it includes one of the following: 1) some sort of angled or curved shape to the joists, 2) separate gusset plates at the point where the joist meets the studs, or 3) angled braces bolted to the joist and angling down to the studs.

Otherwise, as long as the studs are firmly mounted to the wall, it looks like a good plan.

Tom

[electrolove]

Here is another picture.

[electrolove]

QUOTE: Originally posted by ARTHILL

How is the whole thing fastened to the wall itself. I would want at least lag bolts into the studs. Then I would want the shelf hangers to be extra heavy duty steel. Your trains will weigh more tha a shelf full of books, especially when you lean on it to fix something in the back.

I forgot to mention that, the wall is concrete.

[cwclark]

that will probably work but you may want to increase the width between the upper and lower sections...the reason being that if you plan on putting in under the table switch machines like tortoise machines, there won't be enough clearence between the upper and lower level...the upper level should be high enough for fascia board to hide them so they can't be seen from the lower level...chuck

[ARTHILL]

How is the whole thing fastened to the wall itself. I would want at least lag bolts into the studs. Then I would want the shelf hangers to be extra heavy duty steel. Your trains will weigh more tha a shelf full of books, especially when you lean on it to fix something in the back. If by joists you mean the sehf braces them selves, you will need a lot more bracing to hold them up. You cannot bolt a 1x3 to anything and have it firm. If you cannot put diagonal braces in I would want at least 6 full inches where they attach to the vertical pieces.

[Anonymous]

Looks good to me.

[electrolove]

What do you guys think of this idea for a double deck benchwork? The lumber bolted to the wall are 2" x 2", 24" center to center. The joist are 1" x 4" narrowed down to 1" x 2" at the end, and 24" maximum length. Will it be strong enough?