QUOTE: Originally posted by Texas Zepher Originally posted by SpaceMouse When I worked with the "Youth In Model Railroading" group we had the "don't touch other peoples equipment" rule. But they only ran around in circles, so it worked OK. For most of the operating sessions I now participate in, the Yard Master (or in a couple cases Locomotive Hostler) selects the approprate power for the train they've built and whatever crew is next on the call board takes the train. In the club setting, the club itself doesn't own enough power and depends on the members "contributions" to the pool to work. It has to be assumed when a locomotive is put in the locomotive servicing facilities that they are there to be run as needed. Otherwise operations would be paralized waiting for the specific owner to perform the various jobs of that loco. I think that practice is pretty common. We don't have a no-touch rule at our club. Neither does Bob Hartle's "Op til you Drop" layout. You run the power that the yard master sets out or you don't. Chip Building the Rock Ridge Railroad with the slowest construction crew west of the Pecos. Reply Texas Zepher Member sinceOctober 2004 From: Colorful Colorado 8,639 posts Posted by Texas Zepher on Tuesday, December 20, 2005 9:33 AM QUOTE: Originally posted by SpaceMouse Dang TZ, They WERE unwritten. You done wrote'em down. Hehehe, the original subject line was: "The Hitherto Unwritten Code of the Model Railroaders" but I have found that large words don't do well on this form, especially if they are the slightest bit Victorian. Also it was too long to fit in one line on the "topic title" box. When I worked with the "Youth In Model Railroading" group we had the "don't touch other peoples equipment" rule. But they only ran around in circles, so it worked OK. For most of the operating sessions I now participate in, the Yard Master (or in a couple cases Locomotive Hostler) selects the approprate power for the train they've built and whatever crew is next on the call board takes the train. In the club setting, the club itself doesn't own enough power and depends on the members "contributions" to the pool to work. It has to be assumed when a locomotive is put in the locomotive servicing facilities that they are there to be run as needed. Otherwise operations would be paralized waiting for the specific owner to perform the various jobs of that loco. Reply Anonymous Member sinceApril 2003 305,205 posts Posted by Anonymous on Monday, December 19, 2005 2:36 PM I wish people payed for what they've broken of mine. And we should all follow those laws. Reply Edit Anonymous Member sinceApril 2003 305,205 posts Posted by Anonymous on Monday, December 19, 2005 12:19 PM QUOTE: Originally posted by SpaceMouse Dang TZ, They WERE unwritten. You done wrote'em down. And HEAR HEAR!!!! I am not sure if I would have had the courage to order a new replacement for the damaged car on the spot.. but this is definately something I think is good for everyone who is thinking of operating either own equiptment or other people's trains on "Foreign" roads. I smell a oppertunity for a GREAT MR article with this if done right. Reply Edit Adelie Member sinceMay 2003 From: Santa Fe, NM 1,169 posts Posted by Adelie on Monday, December 19, 2005 9:16 AM That reads much better, Tim. - Mark Reply Anonymous Member sinceApril 2003 305,205 posts Posted by Anonymous on Monday, December 19, 2005 8:46 AM Mark I like your new unwritten rules. The only suggestion I have is a slight rewording of #3 3. Is that acceptable? Tim Reply Edit Adelie Member sinceMay 2003 From: Santa Fe, NM 1,169 posts Posted by Adelie on Monday, December 19, 2005 8:12 AM I think the unwritten written rules Tex posted are very good. I always assume that anytime I am running trains, they are at some risk. The floor on most of my unfinished layout is 48 inches or more from the track, and the floor is unforgiving. Even given my obsession with testing, retesting and then testing the tests of newly laid track, the worst can and will happen. Murphy does operate here! Sounds like everyone involved did the right thing. Thanks for passing that along, Tex, because I rarely see situations that are handled with that much integrity, either inside or outside of our hobby. In fact, our hobby is probably many times better in that respect than the "outside world." As Chip pointed out, since the unwritten rules are now in print, we need some new unwritten rules. Here are my suggestions: 1) 2) 3) 4) and of course... 5) - Mark Reply soumodeler Member sinceDecember 2004 From: Georgia 486 posts Posted by soumodeler on Monday, December 19, 2005 7:57 AM On our club layout, we have a rule that you only run your trains unless you have the owners permission. This works out fine as we are not yet able to operate the layout and we just run it during shows. At the state fair this year, I was running a train of my own with a friends Atlas sound equiped SD24. I was running on the freight mainline and tow trains were running on the passenger main. Well, someone left and one of the trains needed to be put in the stagging yard. The stagging yard is a shelf with a lift up bridge to connect to the freight mainline. I stopped my train and the other crossed over and went into stagging. I started my train back up and had just gotten to a good speed when the train went into the mountain with the stagging yard turnout. I hear the sound get lower, then stop, then a horrible crash. Everyone runs around behind the mountain to see the SD24 lying there in about 20 pieces. It turns out that the owner of the other train forgot to throw the switch that leads to stagging, and stupid us, there is nothing that would stop the train if the switch is not thrown the right way. He managed to put it all back together in a few minutes and found that the only damage was a broken handrail where it connects to the cab, which really can't be seen anyway. So it was all good in the end. soumodeler --------------- The Southern Serves the South! Reply tjsmrinfo Member sinceSeptember 2003 From: sherman,tx 492 posts Posted by tjsmrinfo on Monday, December 19, 2005 7:42 AM i know the feeling a while back i borrowed a neighbors athearn bb sd 40-2 to see how he had the couplers attached, while disassembling it i broke the front coupler mount off, bot was i p o'd big time, i told him about it and offered to have it fixed but he declined. i still feel bad about that incident as i handle my models and others like the were brass antique pieces. i too belong belong to a club and we all run our stuff together sometimes things happen. our benchwork follows prototypical MKT practices like bad track but we fix it on the spot, sometimes out equiptment isnt up to par-trucks way to tight couplers not the right height or mchenry's intstead of kadee's. sometimes we get joshed about it but we all have fun. tom Reply SpaceMouse Member sinceDecember 2004 From: Rimrock, Arizona 11,251 posts Posted by SpaceMouse on Monday, December 19, 2005 1:42 AM Dang TZ, They WERE unwritten. You done wrote'em down. Chip Building the Rock Ridge Railroad with the slowest construction crew west of the Pecos. Reply canazar Member sinceAugust 2004 From: Phoenix, Arizona 1,989 posts Posted by canazar on Monday, December 19, 2005 1:22 AM I like the rules. In fact, I cut and pasted them to a freind of mine who is my club. We are part of a modular club and wehave the same issue, other peoples stuff. For us, other people's stuff is thier stuff. You dont touch it, unless you have exact authority from the person's mouth. With DCC too, you never know what could be up with the engine. The biggest rule we have, and gratefully, (it has been more of joke), if you cant afford it, dont ask to run it)[:p] We have had a few things go worng, and thankfully, everyone works it out, just fine. Nice thign about this hobby, most folks are stand up class, and at the least, will understand that engine is notsome 20 dollar wal-mart toy, but 200 dollars of someone hard earned, saved up money Best Regards, Big John Kiva Valley Railway- Freelanced road in central Arizona. Visit the link to see my MR forum thread on The Building of the Whitton Branch on the Kiva Valley Railway Reply Texas Zepher Member sinceOctober 2004 From: Colorful Colorado 8,639 posts Posted by Texas Zepher on Monday, December 19, 2005 12:49 AM QUOTE: Originally posted by trainfreek92 good for that guy!!! those rules are good. i do not belong to a MR club so i do not have to worry about it. Happy MR![:D] I wasn't thinking just in terms of clubs, but more generally anytime one is operating on someone else's layout. I am in a group where once a month we rotate operating all the different layouts. They are all too large for any one to operate themselves. Reply rolleiman Member sinceAugust 2005 From: Michigan 1,550 posts Posted by rolleiman on Monday, December 19, 2005 12:41 AM QUOTE: Originally posted by On30Shay My thoughts EXACTLY. there are some people in the world who take responsibility no matter what. Sounds like you have some good folks there. QUOTE: Originally posted by FCnota I think the person who ordered you the replacement is a stand-up guy. The Four Laws of Model Railroading sound right on the money. Since you are getting a replacement, wouldn't it be nice to repair the damaged one and give it to the person who is paying for the replacement, or donate it to the club? [#ditto] That!! I have a sherline lathe on which my 'friend' who has had machining experience, ran the cross table into the chuck while it was spinning.. I'm still waiting after 6 years for him to replace cross table ( a $25 part ).. I'm sure I'll never see it happen.. The world would be a much better place if everyone took responsibility for thier actions. I don't know you so I won't presume to state what you would have later thought. Initially though, my reaction probably would have been similar.. Later on though, I would have been upset about it.. but maybe that's just me... Jeff Modeling the Wabash from Detroit to Montpelier Jeff Reply Anonymous Member sinceApril 2003 305,205 posts Posted by Anonymous on Sunday, December 18, 2005 11:36 PM My thoughts EXACTLY. there are some people in the world who take responsibility no matter what. Sounds like you have some good folks there. QUOTE: Originally posted by FCnota I think the person who ordered you the replacement is a stand-up guy. The Four Laws of Model Railroading sound right on the money. Since you are getting a replacement, wouldn't it be nice to repair the damaged one and give it to the person who is paying for the replacement, or donate it to the club? Reply Edit ereimer Member sinceJune 2003 From: CANADA 2,292 posts Posted by ereimer on Sunday, December 18, 2005 11:08 PM i say you both handled it very well , i know plenty of people who would have freaked out at the guy for banging up their new possesion . and the other fellow stepping up and not only offering to replace the damaged item(s) but also not letting you talk him out of it shows he's a great guy . i'm not sure i'd do the same if you tried to talk me out of replacing the car(s) Reply Texas Zepher Member sinceOctober 2004 From: Colorful Colorado 8,639 posts Posted by Texas Zepher on Sunday, December 18, 2005 9:38 PM QUOTE: Originally posted by FCnota Since you are getting a replacement, wouldn't it be nice to repair the damaged one and give it to the person who is paying for the replacement, or donate it to the club? By the end of the operating session, he had reassembled it, checked it out, and placed it in the coach yard. When I packed up later that day, I left it there. I believe he might donate it to the club since he is a hard core UP modeler. I consider it his call. Reply twcenterprises Member sinceDecember 2010 From: The place where I come from is a small town. They think so small, they use small words. 1,141 posts Posted by twcenterprises on Sunday, December 18, 2005 6:18 PM QUOTE: 1. If you take a train to an operating session for others to run, assume it could get damaged, or even ruined. Regardless of how careful people are, accidents can still happen. Do not assume the operator will replace it. 2. Don’t plan on taking a train to an operating session for only your self to run, and then leave it sit. Either run the thing or get it off the layout. 3. If you take equipment to an operating session and its operation damages the layout it is your obligation to repair the damage. 4. If you are running a train you are responsible for it. You should never operate other peoples’ equipment unless you are ready to repair or replace it if you happen to damage it. Real railroads work sort of the same way. My rules are as follows: 1. Run your trains at your own risk. That includes when your train(s) are unattended, someone else can come along and run them, even if just to move them into staging. See rule 4 for more on this issue. 2. All equipment is considered working equipment, be it freight, passenger or MOW. Anything that should not be run should be placed in the "Museum" display (show tracks). Working equipment should "earn it's keep", that is, run it or interchange it (move it offline). 3. You are liable for any damage your equipment causes to the railway until it has passed an inspection by the management. Inspections may include taking the equipment on a tour of the railway, testing equipment for interchangeability (coupler height, DCC decoder programming, wheels in gauge, etc.) or operating restrictions for said equipment (such as clearance restrictions). After it passes inspection, then liability falls to the management. 4. If you run a train, you are liable for its safe movement on the railway. Operators are expected to take all necessary precautions to prevent damage to equipment at all times. Real railroad cars aren't "insured" so while they are on a "foreign" railroad, that RR is liable for any damages to that car. As such, operators are expected to be liable for damages to equipment in their charge. However, just as in real life, not all railways can afford to be responsible for these expenses ("poor" shortlines), so the risk ends up with the owners. Even if a RR goes to court to recoup their losses, collecting it is another problem. The "poor" line would probably go into bankruptcy, and never pay up. So it is with model railroading. Brad EMD - Every Model Different ALCO - Always Leaking Coolant and Oil CSX - Coal Spilling eXperts Reply trainfreek92 Member sinceSeptember 2005 From: Mass 1,063 posts Posted by trainfreek92 on Sunday, December 18, 2005 6:10 PM good for that guy!!! those rules are good. i do not belong to a MR club so i do not have to worry about it. Happy MR![:D] Running New England trains on The Maple Lead & Pine Tree Central RR from the late 50's to the early 80's in N scale Reply fiatfan Member sinceMay 2003 From: US 1,400 posts Posted by fiatfan on Sunday, December 18, 2005 6:02 PM I would say you have an OUTSTANDING member in your model railroad club! That is a fine individual and someone I would be proud to call my friend. Tom Life is simple - eat, drink, play with trains! Go Big Red! PA&ERR "If you think you are doing something stupid, you're probably right!" Reply FCnota Member sinceMarch 2002 From: Chicago, IL 137 posts Posted by FCnota on Sunday, December 18, 2005 5:59 PM I think the person who ordered you the replacement is a stand-up guy. The Four Laws of Model Railroading sound right on the money. Since you are getting a replacement, wouldn't it be nice to repair the damaged one and give it to the person who is paying for the replacement, or donate it to the club? Reply Texas Zepher Member sinceOctober 2004 From: Colorful Colorado 8,639 posts The Unwritten Model Railroader Code Posted by Texas Zepher on Sunday, December 18, 2005 5:47 PM This weekend we had the club open for viewing by the general public. Unfortunately our layout is designed for operation not viewing, so we always end up with a shortage of trains in the publicly viewable area. To compensate I always stage a few trains where they can be brought through when a there is a break in the normal action.This week one of the trains I staged was my brand new Broadway Limited California Zephyr. While I was setting it up everyone had to come and look and we were talking about its inaugural run. Later, I had run the train around once and when there was a break in the crowds, I restaged it. During the next influx of people I was on a local (see weekend photo fun thread http://cs.trains.com/forums/2/661266/ShowPost.aspx#661266). One of the other members snagged the CZ and paraded it out. After a pass for the public, the inevitable happened. It either went into the upgrade helix off-track or swung funny because the tailing 5 cars came uncoupled shooting out of the tunnel backwards down the track. The engineer immediately stopped, and reached in to fix the problem. Then the loud crunch as two of the cars leapt onto the floor. One of the dome coaches took it square on a corner and with the couplers and body popped off. At first it looked like the only real damage was the stirrup got smashed and the grab irons buckled. A bit closer examination showed that one of the trucks must have really taken a blow, as the electrical pick up had been crammed way up bending the brass pickup ribbon. This force is probably what caused the body to separate from the frame.I could tell he was really upset about wrecking the train, and I told him it wasn’t his fault and the damage was fairly easily fixed and/or not that noticeable. I said it was no problem and had I been that concerned about it I would not have brought the train down. He would have none of it. We continued running trains, but he immediately got his wireless phone, called the LHS, and ordered a replacement for me.What do you think of that? I had some thoughts I sort of consider the Code of Model Railroading Operation. I have never seen anyone write these down before, I had always just sort of assumed them. 1. If you take a train to an operating session for others to run, assume it could get damaged, or even ruined. Regardless of how careful people are, accidents can still happen. Do not assume the operator will replace it. 2. Don’t plan on taking a train to an operating session for only yourself to run, and then leave it sit. Either run the thing or get it off the layout. 3. If you take equipment to an operating session and its operation damages the layout it is your obligation to repair the damage. 4. If you are running a train you are responsible for it. You should never operate other peoples’ equipment unless you are ready to repair or replace it if it happens to get damaged while you are in charge. Reply Subscriber & Member Login Login, or register today to interact in our online community, comment on articles, receive our newsletter, manage your account online and more! 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Originally posted by SpaceMouse When I worked with the "Youth In Model Railroading" group we had the "don't touch other peoples equipment" rule. But they only ran around in circles, so it worked OK. For most of the operating sessions I now participate in, the Yard Master (or in a couple cases Locomotive Hostler) selects the approprate power for the train they've built and whatever crew is next on the call board takes the train. In the club setting, the club itself doesn't own enough power and depends on the members "contributions" to the pool to work. It has to be assumed when a locomotive is put in the locomotive servicing facilities that they are there to be run as needed. Otherwise operations would be paralized waiting for the specific owner to perform the various jobs of that loco.
Chip
Building the Rock Ridge Railroad with the slowest construction crew west of the Pecos.
QUOTE: Originally posted by SpaceMouse Dang TZ, They WERE unwritten. You done wrote'em down.
- Mark
Best Regards, Big John
Kiva Valley Railway- Freelanced road in central Arizona. Visit the link to see my MR forum thread on The Building of the Whitton Branch on the Kiva Valley Railway
QUOTE: Originally posted by trainfreek92 good for that guy!!! those rules are good. i do not belong to a MR club so i do not have to worry about it. Happy MR![:D]
QUOTE: Originally posted by On30Shay My thoughts EXACTLY. there are some people in the world who take responsibility no matter what. Sounds like you have some good folks there. QUOTE: Originally posted by FCnota I think the person who ordered you the replacement is a stand-up guy. The Four Laws of Model Railroading sound right on the money. Since you are getting a replacement, wouldn't it be nice to repair the damaged one and give it to the person who is paying for the replacement, or donate it to the club?
QUOTE: Originally posted by FCnota I think the person who ordered you the replacement is a stand-up guy. The Four Laws of Model Railroading sound right on the money. Since you are getting a replacement, wouldn't it be nice to repair the damaged one and give it to the person who is paying for the replacement, or donate it to the club?
QUOTE: Originally posted by FCnota Since you are getting a replacement, wouldn't it be nice to repair the damaged one and give it to the person who is paying for the replacement, or donate it to the club?
QUOTE: 1. If you take a train to an operating session for others to run, assume it could get damaged, or even ruined. Regardless of how careful people are, accidents can still happen. Do not assume the operator will replace it. 2. Don’t plan on taking a train to an operating session for only your self to run, and then leave it sit. Either run the thing or get it off the layout. 3. If you take equipment to an operating session and its operation damages the layout it is your obligation to repair the damage. 4. If you are running a train you are responsible for it. You should never operate other peoples’ equipment unless you are ready to repair or replace it if you happen to damage it.
EMD - Every Model Different
ALCO - Always Leaking Coolant and Oil
CSX - Coal Spilling eXperts
Life is simple - eat, drink, play with trains!
Go Big Red!
PA&ERR "If you think you are doing something stupid, you're probably right!"