WHO made the most 'Dog's'?

[Agamemnon]

QUOTE: Originally posted by Railroading_Brit

What added insult to injury was that they were also making some very good locos for the HO scale European market, but not upgrading the OO to match.

Well, the H0 Lima stuff I have is absolutely dire, though most of it has to be around 20 years old. My 0-4-0 sounds like a banshee tearing down the tracks, thanks to its plastic gears.

[mybnsfrr]

Hi All,

Just pack up your JUNK trains and send them to me, LOL![:D]

Mike

[Wdlgln005]

QUOTE: Originally posted by vsmith

No No No Your all wrong...

The WHO was Roger Daltrey, Pete Townsend, John Entwistle and Keith Moon!!!!

The DOGS was an LA punk band in the 70's

The WHO was on first[:)]


GUESS WHO came on second[:D]


YES was on third[:[8D]

[mustanggt]

I had at least a dozen used tyco locomotives as a little kid in the 90's, and I'm suprised they ran as long as they did- being 15-20 years old, if not older.
But my guess is the myth of 40 hour motor life will remain a myth, and will never be proven..........

[whitman500]

After going back and reading the link that SOO Line posted on the origin of the 40 hours story, I think this may have been an exaggeration. I doubt that Tyco would purposely engineer the locomotives to fail after 40 hours. Rather, after designing them they probably discovered that some of them did fail in that short a time period but since this was longer than when parents would return them, they didn't bother to fix the problem. It just seems unlikely that Tyco would want to risk their brand on a designed to fail toy. These things always end up leaking to the public, and can you imagine the PR fiasco that would result if a company was caught purposely designing a toy in that way?

[Anonymous]

Tyco from the early '60's was rather well made. I have 6 of the old trolley's dating from about 1964 and all 6 still run as good as new. Never had a problem with any of them. Now, figure these are now 42 years old, and all I have done is lube them with a drop or two of oil now and then. 40 plus years, that seems like good service, and I think they just may go a lot longer at that.

[Anonymous]

QUOTE: If you really believe Tyco is decent stuff and 'grandpa bought 10 for a reason' then there's plenty of it for sale on E-bay right now today: go buy it up and put your money where your mouth is. Take some photos and share them here... we always get a kick out of seeing folks' latest acquisitions...

I assume that's not aimed at me seeing as I insulted TYCO. My grandpa only bought TYCO because that's all K-mart sold. He didn't have 10 at once, but rather replaced them when they died. there is one C430 left but the driveline is all gone. I did find some old parts and the motor is SMALLER than the motor in a slot car (TYCO did make slot cars too). I have some old slot cars that aren't TYCO and they have a larger motor than a C430.

[jkeaton]

"I think the pancake motor is probably the one single thing that cost this hobby industry a couple generations of repeat customers and their millions in disposable income."

It wasn't the pancake motor per se - I still have a pancake motor Bachmann in good running order, and my two pancake motor Tyco GP20s would creep along very nicely (though only once the Tyco powerpack was heavily modified) - I sold them because they weren't prototypical for Canada, not because they didn't run well. But, I never ran them on carpet - which is what killed most Tycos, Bachmanns, and others in the 1970s. Once those carpet fibres, dog hair, etc. get sucked in, then the armatures burn out and the gears fail.

I think of the 1970s Tycos rather as I think of the 1980s K-car - a basically well engineered design marred by terribly cheap parts and slapdash assembly. If you see a K car still running today, it's usually running well - it's one of the lucky ones, better assembled than most from better than average parts. Tycos were the same. They weren't designed to be fancy, high class engineering, but to be easy to assemble, meet a minimum standard, and still meet a stiff price point. By that measure, Tyco did reasonably well, marred in the later 1970s by too much cost-cutting.

Jim
Ottawa

Oh, and on Model Power - their Austrian Roco stuff was great, their Yugolavian Mehanotehnika good but with with (mostly) hopeless three pole motors, and their Far Eastern stuff poorly engineered and assembled. That they didn't design much themeselves, but bought from others (as did AHM), left they prey to other's cost-cutting. J

[vsmith]

No No No Your all wrong...

The WHO was Roger Daltrey, Pete Townsend, John Entwistle and Keith Moon!!!!

The DOGS was an LA punk band in the 70's

[Anonymous]

QUOTE: Originally posted by areibel

QUOTE: Originally posted by dingoix

I haven't owned any new TYCO but my grandfather had at least 10 C430s and none survive.
But, not ONE person has told me I'm wrong on the 40 hour lifespan and I stated in my post "with some rare exceptions". There are a FEW that run, but MOST of them are dead.

OK, now stop and think.
WHERE did you hear the 40 hour quote? Here, on this forum?
Why did your Grandfather buy 10 of them when they only lasted a week? Why didn't he buy the Atlas/ Roco units after the first couple died?
I'm not trying to make a personal attack on you, but you seem to think you're right because you've heard or read something. And you jump right in and proclaim it as truth whenever it comes up. Do you know any other kids your age (or any age)that act like "a big know it all" but don't really have a clue? That's what you're acting like...

Maybe you weren't "trying" to make a personal attack here, but you managed to do so anyhow: If I say "I'm not attacking you personally, but you're an immature twit" it is still insulting.

If you really believe Tyco is decent stuff and 'grandpa bought 10 for a reason' then there's plenty of it for sale on E-bay right now today: go buy it up and put your money where your mouth is. Take some photos and share them here... we always get a kick out of seeing folks' latest acquisitions...

[Anonymous]

QUOTE: WHERE did you hear the 40 hour quote? Here, on this forum?
Why did your Grandfather buy 10 of them when they only lasted a week? Why didn't he buy the Atlas/ Roco units after the first couple died?
I'm not trying to make a personal attack on you, but you seem to think you're right because you've heard or read something. And you jump right in and proclaim it as truth whenever it comes up. Do you know any other kids your age (or any age)that act like "a big know it all" but don't really have a clue? That's what you're acting like.

I've heard the 40 hr quote many times on this forum.

All they sold in my town was TYCO. There was no LHS. The only option was K-mart.

[Soo Line fan]

Here is the link to the 40 and out story. Read it and weep...........[xx(]
http://www.trains.com/community/forum/topic.asp?TOPIC_ID=36464

Jim

[MisterBeasley]

QUOTE: Originally posted by areibel
OK, now stop and think.
WHERE did you hear the 40 hour quote? Here, on this forum?

That's where I heard it. As I recall through the haze of beer foam and Dullcoat fumes, a member last year mentioned talking to a Tyco rep at a train show. The story was that the rep said Tyco intentionally built their engines to last 40 hours. The rationale was that after 40 hours of run-time, people wouldn't bother to return them for warrantee work.

[Soo Line fan]

QUOTE: Originally posted by LongIslandTom


Combine the poor-running engine with the notorious brass track packaged with train sets back then, and one can understand why my relatives lost interest after 2 days and never bothered with trains anymore, toy or model.

I think the pancake motor is probably the one single thing that cost this hobby industry a couple generations of repeat customers and their millions in disposable income.

You are absolutely right. Tyco is constantly being given credit for bringing in people to the hobby and rightfully so. On the other hand, I have often wondered how many potential hobbyists Tyco drove out of the hobby with frustration due to this motor. 40hrs? I have had one go after 4 hours, another in a couple of days. I think I might have gotten close to that figure on the third engine. It’s really a shame, as they had some neat stuff. Obviously the A-Team or GI Joe sets were far from prototypical, but they were exciting to a lot of kids.

Jim

[areibel]

QUOTE: Originally posted by dingoix

I haven't owned any new TYCO but my grandfather had at least 10 C430s and none survive.
But, not ONE person has told me I'm wrong on the 40 hour lifespan and I stated in my post "with some rare exceptions". There are a FEW that run, but MOST of them are dead.

OK, now stop and think.
WHERE did you hear the 40 hour quote? Here, on this forum?
Why did your Grandfather buy 10 of them when they only lasted a week? Why didn't he buy the Atlas/ Roco units after the first couple died?
I'm not trying to make a personal attack on you, but you seem to think you're right because you've heard or read something. And you jump right in and proclaim it as truth whenever it comes up. Do you know any other kids your age (or any age)that act like "a big know it all" but don't really have a clue? That's what you're acting like.
And I'm sorry the unit you bought was junk, but an Ebay seller's description of "New in the box" will get you every time. The owner of the hobby shop I went to taught me that- people would buy somethng and hand it over to the 5 year old. The kid would out and out destroy it, pushing it by hand or whatever.. The parent's would bring it back in the box and claim it was defective. He replaced several until he figured out what was happening. Was he wrong to stop giving them new units?
Just think about it- Please!

[Anonymous]

I don't know if this is true of others' experience with the infamous pancake motor drive, but I've never had much luck with them. I have personal experience with a Bachmann E60CP, and relatives of mine also had experience with other pancakes.. Also Bachmanns (a high-hood GP50 and an SD40-2). All back in the 1980s.

I've tried deburring the gears and every kind of plastic-safe lube under the sun with these, and the result is always the same. All these pancakes are very prone to stalling, and seemingly has two speed settings: Dead stop and scale speed of sound. Nothing in between. Any train longer than 3 cars will make the sudden starts worse.

Combine the poor-running engine with the notorious brass track packaged with train sets back then, and one can understand why my relatives lost interest after 2 days and never bothered with trains anymore, toy or model.

I think the pancake motor is probably the one single thing that cost this hobby industry a couple generations of repeat customers and their millions in disposable income.

[Anonymous]

I haven't owned any new TYCO but my grandfather had at least 10 C430s and none survive. Ask anybody in my family- they'll tell you those junky things didn't last a week. The 430 I got off eBay WAS new in box and it didn't move at all when I set it on the track. The motor started up, it jumped and then it was obvious the gears went out. Then about 10 seconds later the motor burned up. And the motor wasn't locked up. It was spinning w/ no load (because the gears went out). Then I smelled electrical burning and the motor stopped.

But, not ONE person has told me I'm wrong on the 40 hour lifespan and I stated in my post "with some rare exceptions". There are a FEW that run, but MOST of them are dead.

[areibel]

QUOTE: Originally posted by dingoix

QUOTE: Nice to see all the experts chime in!

Is that an insult? Or a joke because I started a TYCO thread long ago?

Take it as you will- You always seem to have the definitive opinion on this but how many NEW Tyco's have you owned? And where did you get that information on the 40 hour life? IIRC, it was from another thread where someone on this forum said they had been told that by someone from Tyco at a trade show. OK, the guy that is selling the stuff is going to go around saying it's going to last 40 hours? Riiiight!

If you can honestly say you've owned 7 or 8 new out of the box Tyco locomotives and they all blew up after 40 hours, I'll take your word for it. But I have owned them, and my experience has been much different. Even the dreaded Pancake motors. I still have my original Bicen. C430, along with a 630 both still run. And there's probably a thousand hours on the 430.

[Anonymous]

In all fairness to Tyco ( Oh Jeez, I done it now![:p]) When I was a lad my Dad and I built a pair of steamers from kits by Tyco. Now I know they had Mantua influence, but the box clearly did say Tyco! They did then, and still to this day run fine! 35 years later!!
My C430's both ran well ( for what they were) for years before they were repowered, so did my Tyco F units.[:D] Wish I could have said the same for my Varney F unit and my Lionel FA! [V]
I've only owned 1 non-Proto Life-like engine. It ran 20 ft and died. [V]

[Anonymous]

QUOTE: Nice to see all the experts chime in!

Is that an insult? Or a joke because I started a TYCO thread long ago?

[dgwinup]

QUOTE: Originally posted by Mastiffdog

I resent this thread.

Mastiffdog,

It has been said that every dog has his day.

This just wasn't one of yours!

Better luck next time!

Darrell, doggedly quiet...for now

[easyaces]

Now I have an old Tyco plymouth switcher that still works, but Tyco did have its dogs along with Lifelike , Bachmann, and model power!

[Anonymous]

I resent this thread.

[Benjamin Maggi]

In 1988 got my first Bachmann engine: a high:nose GP50 in erie lackawanna scheme. Despite it being unprototypical (though I didn't know it then, I was 6) I grew to love high nose units and prefer them to Fs or other Geeps. If only my trainset had a Sante Fe F7, who knows what I would be modeling now...

But back to the topic... I ran it to the ground, dropped it at least once to crack the wiring board on the inside BUT IT STILL KEPT RUNNING! Until the motor started to smoke. Now, years later, missing corner steps and handrails and horn and everything else, it still is a treasured engine. I wish I could find one of the N scale Erie Lackawanna GP50s to run on my new layout to remind me of my "roots."

[Anonymous]

QUOTE: Originally posted by RevMattCNJ

Bachmann -- Bachmann steam is worthwhile. But their diesels -- even the Spectrum Line -- are unreliable. To me they are the worst of the bunch because they pretend to offer quality with their Spectrum line which is only marginally better than their toy line. Model Power never pretended to be anything other than what it was.

I've heard from people who have bought the Bachmann locos that have been produced in the last year or so and they say that Bachmann has gotten better. I may have to concur. My son was given a Bachmann GP 50 last year. I've been expecting it to conk out any day now seeing that it is a Bachmann -- not even a Spectrum -- but that hasn't happened yet. Others tell me that the DCC equipped locos are pretty good.

I guess I will have to take a wait and see attitude. Most of the locos that I use (meaning they are off limits to the kids) are Atlas and I don't plan on switching any time soon. But I may have to take back what I said about Bachmann back in November.

[areibel]

QUOTE: Originally posted by dingoix

Yes, you're right about the 40 hrs on TYCO.

Nice to see all the experts chime in!

[Anonymous]

Yes, you're right about the 40 hrs on TYCO.

[Anonymous]

I recall reading somewhere that the Tyco mechanism was designed with a limited lifespan (40 hours was one figure). Not sure how accurate this is but judging by the "engineering" (if you can call it that!) involved in the mechanisms it's probably not far from the truth!

If you have a Tyco F-unit that you want to keep, put it on a Bachmann Plus mechanism - they're relatively cheap and run very nicely indeed when in good order.

[Soo Line fan]

Tyco with it’s pancake motor is the ultimate dog. I think they found the armature inside a slot car somewhere. It only had one bearing on the worm side, the rear of the armature rode in the motor housing with no bearing! After a while the worm would eventually slip on the shaft producing that wonderful wining sound accompanying with no forward movement. A little Loctite would fix that but up next are the plastic gears. Better keep them lightly oiled or they would self-destruct. Too bad the gearbox, if you could call it that was not enclosed, so the oil would get thrown everywhere. Finally the armature overheats, the windings short and it’s put out of its misery. A marvel of minimal engineering if ever there was one.

Jim