Methods of Manual Turnout Control

[Anonymous]

Alright,

What methods do you have up your sleeve?

Some methods that come to mind:

- Joe Fugate's Doorbolt with fishing line attached to spring wire.

- Eric Brooman's over-centering spring contraption

- Iain Rice's Spring wire in a kinked tube contraption - micro switch sitting next to the turnout to power the frog.

- Michael Tylick's very inexpensive slide switch contraption. (it's possible that a variation of this could be very simple, but as it is, it's pretty complex).

I'm looking for a method that is:

1) Cheap
2) Provides electrical switching to power a frog
3) Durable, easy to fix, etc.
4) Essentially "invivisble" on the top of the layout (ruling out ground-throws)

At the moment, I think I'm leaning towards Joe Fugate's doorbolt & fishing line contraption, with the addition of a microswitch near the spring wire to route power to the frog.

Here's what I like about this method:

The travel is easily adjustable by where the fishing line is located on the spring wire. It's all totally tweakable.

Very few moving parts. Two thumbs up on that!

The doorbolt is very sturdy - you're not going go rip it off when your shirt snags on it, and nobody will bump into it and break it.

The only thing I don't like is that you have to buy both a microswitch and the doorbolt. They're both cheap, but it would be nice to eliminate the doorbolt.


A slide switch, a-la Michael Tylick, will need a way to adjust the throw. That is, the slide switch has a fixed throw distance. But you need an adjustable throw. He does this with some added links created from wire. Eric Brooman's contraption also requires added links - which look like troube spots to me. I wish I could see them in person.

Any other ideas out there that I'm missing?

For now, I'm leaning towards the doorbolt/fishing line method. Thanks Joe!

[Anonymous]

What is wrong with ground throws. Caboose Industires makes a wide variety of them. In sprung and Unsprung varieties. The sprung ones I have, have only two moving parts. They even make some with built in power routing contacts. If scale like appearence is important I do know that the N scale ones can be made to work HO turnouts. Still might not be exactly to scale. but more to scale than the HO ones. Now that I am converting to DCC I am planning to add power routing contacts to the ones I have. I plan to do this by ordering some DPDT switches from an electonics house. (After I try a bunch out from radio shack to figure out what ones work best for what i want to do.) And when I install the ground throw, I will install have a little rig made up with the Ground throw installed on the top, and the DPDT switch installed on the bottom. and a pin conecting the switch nob to the throw bar. Sounded like a good way to get power routing contacts on my ground throws and still be able to use the supply I have that were purchased before I needed power routing contacts.

BTW. on my layout I plan to have all mainline switches ran from a CTC board and all industiral switches ground thrown. As for my yards I think I will run my big one with switch machines from "The yard tower" and for my two smaller ones. use ground throws.

Yours truely,

James

[fwright]

Not cheap, but meets all your other criteria, are the throws made by Humpyard. They have different panel/fascia mounting configurations and use a wire sliding in a tube like a bicycle cable.

Fred Wright

[jrbernier]

I used automotive 'choke cables' recessed in the facia on my layout. That was 18 years ago when they only cost a $ 1.89 each. They now are about $ 5-6 each!. Also, they seem to get crud in the cabling and get 'stiff' over the years. I am currently replacing them with Caboose Industries 'high level' switch stands. The few turnouts that are a 'stretch' to reach now have Tortoise motors.

Jim Bernier

[cwclark]

wouldn't know..i use Tortoise machines with extra contacts exclusively....I once tried the one that used piano wire connected to a DP/DT or SP/DT switch that was linked to the throw bar but it didn't work very well..the piano wire would eventually come loose and after the turnout is mounted, it basically has to be rebuilt from the ground up to get it working correctly again...i really think that using electrical circuits driven by panel mounted toggle switches is the way to go...sometimes trying to save money installing manual throws will cost you more later...chuck

[Anonymous]

Thanks for the ideas so far.

Everyone does things differently, of course, but I just don't want to buy switch machines for $15 or whatever each. It's just not going to happen. I'll buy the control system (probably digitrax), and I'll buy cars, locos, and most likely some building kits, but I want to contstruct the majority of my layout myself. (My layout will be very small, and I'm trying to milk it for all the enjoyment I could get out of it - I'm into the Iain Rice school of thought of getting a lot out of a small layout).

Since my layout will be small, maintaining this stuff will not be a huge deal either, but I still want something very robust.

To me, part of the enjoyment is not buying all off-the-shelf stuff. I cannot even explain why (probably because I'm nuts), but for some reason seeing a little sidebar in MR on Eric Brooman's home-made turnout throws ranks right up there with the coolness of his layout. No little $15 green box under the layout for me [:)]

[hminky]

This my sound like blasphemy, but I have operated my 4x8 layout with nothing on the switches for almost a year and a half



This includes when I was running heavier more rigid On30 equipment on the layout.

http://www.pacificcoastairlinerr.com/4x8/operation/lilo/



Just a thought
Harold

[steveblackledge]

I made my own push / pull devices from varoius sizes of nylon pipe, the stuff trucks use for there air system, the wire i use is 1.0mm (metric) MIG welder wire with a 90 degree bend at the turnout up through the throw bar and a knob super glued on the other end, the best thing about this method is you can make the inner pipe run as long as you want but you have to watch out for the pipe bending which causes friction

[ereimer]

assuming you're still building the layout in your signature i don't see why you're against using caboose industries ground throws . they aren't expensive , work great , and will look perfect on a switching layout . i agree that tortoises would be overkill on your layout since you can easily reach all the turnouts

[Anonymous]

All though Humpyard is a little on the $$ side they look neat, www.humpyard.com
Bob

[robengland]

Try combining the best of both worlds (surface mount of ground throw and electrical/lock action of slide switch) by using the DPDT slide switch as the ground throw.
http://www.trains.com/community/forum/topic.asp?TOPIC_ID=43113

[Don Gibson]

Let's see. Fish line pull's but push?

I think a 'Choke cable' operating a turnout & microswitch is what you want, plus you'll have the fun of climbing and cleaning.

Aesthetically speaking, Tortoise's motor drives do it, but maybe you could build your own.
Here's a 3 V stall motor for $12.95. It's a thought.
http://www.railwayeng.com/switch.htm

[Anonymous]

I'm currently using an over center spring setup, made from piano wire. I'm not familiar with Eric Boorman's setup, but I imagine it's either similar to mine, or much better working. Probably the latter. I have no idea how well this will wear, with the metal against the plastic, the way it is.

I eventually want to switch over to either ground throws, or slide switches mounted at the front of the layout, and connected to the turnouts with piano wire in a tube. I don't currently have the necessary switches/throws, and I want to be able to run trains, so I can find any problems in my track work.

[Fergmiester]

QUOTE: Originally posted by jrbernier

I used automotive 'choke cables' recessed in the facia on my layout. That was 18 years ago when they only cost a $ 1.89 each. They now are about $ 5-6 each!. Also, they seem to get crud in the cabling and get 'stiff' over the years. I am currently replacing them with Caboose Industries 'high level' switch stands. The few turnouts that are a 'stretch' to reach now have Tortoise motors.

Jim Bernier

That's what I'm planning to do for the turnouts located more than a foot from the board. Saying that I'm presently working out the "kinks" on my "El Cheapo" system which uses a DPTP switch to work the indicator/signal lights and also keeps the 1/16th piano wire from slipping. I'm using wire nuts (wire twist connectors) as control rod nobs. Pictures o follow.

Fergie

[ARTHILL]

I am using Humpyard. They work well and look great on the control panel. I have tried most of the other things and I am not good enough to make them work all that well and they looked cheap. They also took forever to make. For remote, Humpyard works better than tortise and look cool. I am a fan.

[Anonymous]

Art,
This is also the way I'm going, do you happen to have any photos of your setup
Thanks Bob

[Anonymous]

QUOTE: Originally posted by Don Gibson

Let's see. Fish line pull's but push?

If you go to Joe Fugate's website here, you could see a nice picture of it (scroll down a bit when you get to the page).

http://mymemoirs.net/model-trains/forum/phpBB2/viewtopic.php?t=14

EDIT: Here's the video clip:

http://mymemoirs.net/model-trains/forum/phpBB2/viewtopic.php?t=57

The spring wire "pushes", and the fishing line "pulls". Without seeing this in person, it seems there is enough give in the spring wire to allow for the fishing line to be pulled a distance that is greater than the throw of the points. The doorbolt obviously moves futher than the distance the points are thrown.

I've seen this on Joe's video demo before, but just recently saw this pic on his page and figured out how it works. Very cool.

Another thing about this method that's cool is it is very "digital" to the user - it's "off" or "on". There's no figuring out how hard to push or pull on something, as there is with cable being pulled through a tube, etc. A little kid couldn't damage this, for example. The "calibration" is done in the mechanism, not in its use.

I dig it! Locate a microswitch in the proper location near the spring wire, and I've got my turnout frog polarity switch.

I do like all the suggestions above. Keep them coming! I'm almost sold on the groundthrows, but I question their robostness. I do, however, recall someone saying in MR 15 or so years ago that they feel like they could take a nuclear blast and still survive. (Bob Smaus, maybe?).

Keep the tips coming. I love these down home, home grown model railroading tricks!

I'll try to think of other things that behave like the doorbolt - it's got two fixed positions. Nothing pops to mind immediately, however.

[potlatcher]

Another turnout control method that hasn't been mentioned was presented by Bill Darnaby in the April 1998 MR. I am using a variant of his system with some success. He designed it for use with his extruded foam benchwork, which I also use, but I believe it could be easily adapted for layouts with traditional benchwork.

This method require soldering skills and several components: two diameters of brass tube, two sizes of music wire, a DPDT switch and a push/pull rod to a knob on the fascia. Also, Bill uses hot glue to affix the DPDT to the underside of the layout. This didn't work well for me, so I designed a small bracket of 1/32" brass sheet to hold the switch. The DPDT is the most expensive part, and the total cost is about $2.50 to $3.00.

These linkages haven't been as easy to install as I had expected, but with practice I am improving my skills and developing greater confidence in my ability to make them work. Time will tell how robust they will be, but they will be cheap and easy to rebuild if needed.

I did consider Caboose ground throws, but my layout level is fairly high and there are a few locations where one would need to reach over structures to throw a switch. Also, the Caboose throws that include a "power routing" feature are pretty unsightly.

Tom

[Anonymous]

Potlatcher, could you describe the contraption in a bit more detail? (sorry, I know words alone are silly for this, but that mechanism sounds interesting).

[potlatcher]

QUOTE: Originally posted by CARRfan

Potlatcher, could you describe the contraption in a bit more detail? (sorry, I know words alone are silly for this, but that mechanism sounds interesting).

Two small telescoping brass tubes are inserted vertically through the roadbed/subroadbed a few tie spaces away from the throw rod. The outer tube is shorter (about the distance from the top of the ties to the bottom of the subroadbed) and acts only as a bushing to allow the inner tube to rotate. The inner tube has a small hole drilled through its diameter near the upper end. A short length of steel wire is bent into an L shape, with the short leg inserted into the throw bar and the long leg soldered into the hole in the brass tube.

Underneath, the DPDT is mounted on its side close to where the smaller brass tube exits the subroadbed with the DPDT "button" facing the tube and the DPDT's "line of action" perpendicular to the fascia. The button has two holes drilled, one about the same as the inner diameter of the brass tube, and the other large enough for the push/pull rod. A length of larger diameter steel wire (sized to fit into the ID of the brass tube) is bent into a V shaped spring with the legs then bent 90 degrees to the plane of the V so that each leg of the V is about 1" long. With the track switch and the DPDT centered, the 90 degree part of the spring legs are then pressed into the switch button and soldered into the brass tube.

Now, when the DPDT is thrown to one side or the other, the over center action of the steel spring pivots the brass tube and throws the switch to one side or another. Darnaby indicated that he had to play around with the actual dimensions of the spring, DPDT location and pivot to throwbar dimension in order to find out what worked best for him. I am still in the "playing around" stage, but I think I've found combinations that work well for me and may only need a little more tweaking.

Hope I haven't gone into too much detail. You really should try to find that MR article, as it included a diagram that illustrates the idea better than my description.

Good Luck,
Tom