Old Athearn engines

[Anonymous]

Just wondering if old Athearn engines from the 1960's have any real value as collectors items. I have a few GP-9's and an OLD GP-30.

[BRAKIE]

Bob,Sorry those old Athearns has no real collector value.You see most of them is still being made today.

A collector MAY be interested in that Athearn GP30 though as that locomotive was dropped from production after a year..

[CNJ831]

Bob, the only early Athearn locomotive with any real collector's value is their B&M Pacific steamer. Even their early steam switcher and 0-4-2 "Little Monster" are not sought after today. As to the early diesels - they are worth zip!

John

[Anonymous]

Thanks fellas' that's about what I figured. I have to wonder though, why was the GP-30 discontinued so soon? I know it wasn't a "perfect" model, but compared to the rest of the stuff of that era, it wasn't all that bad.

[Anonymous]

put those puppys on e bay, and you will be surpised IM SURE

[dknelson]

I am no collector or expert but I think some older paint schemes are no longer offered and there might be value to someone who models those roads.
The GP30 was rushed into production and either Athearn misunderstood some details or they went into production relying on EMD demonstrators that themselves differed from the final production. Why this was considered so serious, when various of their cars and engines have detail issues (such as the roof contour on their F7 which you notice when you mate one with their new F units or with an Atlas F unit, or the windows on some of their passenger cars) is beyond me. But also EMD discontinued the GP30 pretty soon so maybe Athearn wanted to have the newest EMD engine and not a GP30 specifically. As I recall they took the GP30 mold and learned that they could cut into it for a pretty good GP35 -- and that explains why they cannot rerun the GP30 even if they wanted to.
Dave Nelson

[Anonymous]

Interesting point on the mold Dave. I wonder if that was the reason for the GP-35 having such a grossly out of scale (width) hood..
Sure would be nice if Athearn would go through all those previous shells and correct the hood width now that they have the narrow motor. But then again, I suppose they'd be asking over $100.00 for a unit then.. This will really date me, but I remember paying around ten bucks for a brand new Athearn switcher, with flywheels!!!
HEY, that just reminded me of something. When I was a kid, I remember a guy in our MRR club had a switcher that actually "idled", this thing would sit there at low voltage and you could hear the motor running, but it didn't move until you applied more voltage. Does anyone here know what I am talking about? I have NO idea as to the manufacturer, Varney perhaps?
Todd C.

[CNJ831]

Way, way back when in the history of model railroading, perhaps the 1950's or early 1960's, there was a concept called something like the "fluid clutch" bantered about. I believe it was even written up in MR and actual working models tested. I don't recall how it actually worked but the engines had some kind of hydraulic interface between the motor and drivetrain and were supposed to operate just as you describe, sitting at idle until throttled up before moving. Although I'm not sure, I think such drive systems were homemade and not commercially available. The idea certainly didn't catch on as talk of it came and went in a very short time.

Does anyone recall the dry ice powered steam engines in HO?

John

[MikeyChris]

I think there was a drive that used a clutch - perhaps the original HobbyTown chassis??? It would seem that the dirve would have to have a clutch or belt drive to provide the "slip" needed to do this.

[BRAKIE]

Frist Athearn never made the dies for that FP7.Globe models did.Athearn bought out Glode and never change the dies to this day.

[dknelson]

Brakie: You are right about the Athearn F being a Globe original. The Globe engines were dummies and sold for an outlandish price like 89 cents or some such. You still see them from time to time at swap meets.
My point is that Athearn has long tolerated a fair degree of variance from absolute scale so the reason why the GP30 was discontinued must have had some other reason

The body is extra wide on the GP35 to handle the motor of that era. The GP9/7 is the same, in face a fair number of Athearn's engines have bodies that are too wide. You really notice it when they are coupled to an accurate engine.
Dave Nelson

[BRAKIE]

Todd,Those so called "fat" bodies was made durning the time when the motors for a locomotive was large..They had to widen the body to fit the hood over the motor..The newer blue box drives has a far superior motor the first motor Athearn use.Infact Athearn upgrade this drive to include brass flywheels some years ago.

The very first gear drive that Athearn use didn't have flywheels and use brass wheels then they added a metal flywheel with brass wheels then improved the drive with brass flywheels and those metal wheels they still use today.

FYI.The Athearns was the best drive and plastic locomotive on the market for many years..That original drive made by Athearn in the 60s has been copied and refined by every manufacturer today of quaility locomotives.Atlas,Kato,P2K ect uses that drive design...Not bad for a drive made in the 60s.

Athearn still has one of the best locomotives made today and need not take a back seat to any brand.Tweak that drive some and you can get it to run as smooth as any locomotive made.Yes these units can and will run quiet if one knows the secrete to the noise problem.Surprise it is NOT in the drive but-well I let you guys figure that out.

BTW The Athearn drive hates grease..Thisis what gets alot of unskilled modelers in trouble they think and insist you got to pack the drive in grease to get it to quiet down.Needless to say that is one big mistake.Nor does one need to remotor or put news wheels on a Athearn-again the unskilled modelers mistake made.Of course the so called experts in the magazines insist these is true also.IT IS NOT TRUE!A little common modeling skill will improve these drives.

REMEMBER ATHEARN DRIVES AND GREASE-NOT GOOD BEDFELLOWS. I use the caps to bring that point home and not as a shout.

Yes,I have used Athearns for many years while I had a family..Now that my kids are adults and I lost my wife in a car accident years ago and live on my own as a bachelor,I can afford the finer quaility locomotives and yes I still buy and use Athearn locomotives on a has needed bases.SW1500,GP38-2 and GP40-2.All run as smooth as silk.

[BRAKIE]

Dave I think we posted about the same time-LOL.

My understanding that GP30 was base on a model made by the design engineers at EMD.I am told that Athearn jump the gun and copied that locomotive before the EMD designers fini***he final body for the GP30.

As far as I know this unit was drop by Athearn for the lack of sales.Also a more correct GP30 was planed in brass by ? (Train Incorporated?).

That GP35 prove to be a winner even though you could buy one in brass by Tenshodo(sp?)

[dknelson]

Larry -- great minds think alike!
Dave Nelson

[Anonymous]

Well buddy, you said that Athearns could be made to run as well as a Kato, I don't doubt you, but how about sharing the secret with the rest of us? After all, that's what this forum is all about. Modelers helping fellow modelers.... I've detailed a few "tricks" of my own here to help the next guy out.
Todd C.

[BRAKIE]

Todd I have shared my method on doing this with other modelers for years.There is really no great secret in doing this.One must have a understanding of the blue box drive and a open mind with unbias opinions and forget what other say about new motors,gears,wheels and above all grease.

You start by taking the drive apart.Clean off all of the old oils you find.Check for burrs on the gears as well as proper seating of the gears and any burrs on the gear housing its self.Check the wheel bushing for burrs and proper seating check the axles for burrs as well.. At this time add oil-that's right oil to the inside of the wheel bushing using the tip of a tooth pick.Add a tooth pick tip of oil to the knub that the gears sit on.assemble trucks.

Check the drive shafts and u joints for burrs.Check the motor to insure it is properly seated.Add a tooth pick tip of oil to the motor drive shaft bushings.Add a tiny drop of oil to the drive shafts.Assemble the drive.Hard wire the motor pick.Now add one small drop of oil to the gears.By using the flywheel turn drive by hand and work the oil onto the gears for 60-90 seconds.
Add A-Line stick on weight to the inside top of the shell.This helps kill the shell chatter.
If this is a new engine then break the drive in by running it for 45 minutes forward and then reverse for the same time.You should now have a quieter and smoother running Athearn engine..

By using small amount of oil there is no danger in the oil being thrown all over the place.This only happens if one uses way to much oil..

Now I do this to all of my engines regardless of brand..

[Anonymous]

Thanks Larry, I'll try the things you said. One question, I have also heard about putting some toothpaste in the gears for the first break-in period. Seems like it could work, but I'm not too sure. And, yes, I have also found that eliminating the "clip" on top of the motor helps as well. Braided copper wire works very well for this modification. Not common anywhere else, I find my braided copper wire at welding supply shops. Now, what's the best way to make contact on the bottom half of the motor? I'd still like to be able to remove the motor for service. Have you had any luck with those supposedly "conductive" greases?
Todd C.

[BRAKIE]

Todd,I just use the bottom motor clip.I do however shine up the frame where the motor clip makes contact and motor clip its self.

Again Those drives doesn't take kindly to grease of any kind.I can not explain why this is so but found it as a trueth.

I am yet to use tooth paste but it could very will work.Again I hate to put anything on those gears except for the drop of oil.

One more thing..I also remove the headlight bulb.I find that removing that builb the engine will start smoother and run a tad slower.Some replace that bulb with L E Ds but I am not bother with a lack of a headlights.

I have in times past use headlight jewels for headlights.That is a old trick left over from the 50s/60s.LOL