Gluing flex track to cork roadbed

[Blind Bruce]

Hi folks,
I want to place my HO flex track down on the cork roadbed BEFORE I glue it. This just about eliminates latex caulk. Can I use water and white glue like securing ballast? Is there a better way?
Regards,
Bruce in the Peg AKA
BB

[Anonymous]

Why do you want to place it before you glue it?

[lesterperry]

[?] Glue it? I never glue track down, what if you want to make a change later? I suggest slideing one rail about 1/2 way back on the ties then connect next section. After that fasten one end with a small nail ( don't remember the size think it is 17) Then place track where you desire and nail it. Slide the rails together at the joint and continue. this makes smooooooth joints in turns and is also prototipical. You wil have to cut the long rail at turnouts and use it on the other side to continue the stagger. Ta the rail joint you can use an exacto knife to remove cleats on ties for clearence for connector.
Les

[Blind Bruce]

Jandii,
It is just an idea so I can try the track before comitting to the glue. I am not so sure how it will look at this point. Curves are the problem.
BB

[bogp40]

Are you just placing the track for a dry fit? Once ballasted, it is glued down anyway, so why not make life a bit simpler by using latex caulk. This way you can work out the bugs- a flexable putty knife will lift it for any changes w/o any damage. Once you are satisfied with it's operation then ballast for a permanant placement.
Remember to solder the rail joiners before bending the flextrack on your turns.
Bob K.

[DavidGSmith]

I use those bulletin board pins with the plastic handle. Place the pins both sides to start and add to the inside of curves and out side as needed. Lets you see that your plan is working and what adjustments you need to make.

[DavidJ611]

Hi Bruce,

I'm not sure I exactly understand the origin of your question, but maybe this will help clarify things:

Some people nail their track in place, and some people glue it in place. If you nail it, glue is unneccessary except to secure ballast--for which dilute white glue works like a charm. (That is what I have done.)

From what I understand of the latex caulk idea, you secure your track in place with a thin layer of caulk and spread on your ballast on top in one fell swoop. No nails are needed, but you need to somehow hold (weight) the track down until the caulk or other adhesive dries/sets. I think this approach is favorable to those who (1) like the idea of laying track and ballasting at the same time and (2) don't like the look of nails in their ties or (3) don't like driving those little nails.

If you simply don't like looking at nails in your ties but you don't mind dealing with nails temporarily, perhaps you could tack your track in place but not drive the nails in all the way. Then, once you're satisfied with your track's alignment you can proceed to ballasting your track and securing it with the white glue mixture. Provided that will hold your track in place securely enough, you could then carefully remove the nails later. [Have any of you guys done this[?] Does the glued down ballast hold the track in place adequately[?]--Perhaps that is what you were wondering, Bruce?]

I don't know if I've answered your question, Bruce, but I hope some of our fellow modelers can shed some additional light on the subject; I would like to know, too.

-Dave

[Don Gibson]

Bruce:

GLUEING CORK kil's it's sound deadening properties - like white glue when it dry's when applying ballast. I apply 3M (a Latex spray) to one side of cork and press it into place for sucuring roadbed, and use spikes to hold the trackwork in place. Everything is held in place - and removable.

If spiking is too tough for you eyesight, 'Artist's Supply' shops carry a photographer's spray mount adhesive - that one can remove photograph's and reposition - it dries 'tacky'. It spray's out in a 'v' pattern - When adding track it will hold your trackwork in place without 'glueing' it . Best of all, it minimizes the transfer of engine vibration through the cork.
Be carefull of getting ANY glue around moving point's of turnout's.

[boomer44]

I have glued my flextrack using carpenter's glue.

I layout my track plan.

Next I cut out the roadbed from 4 ply plywood. I know it's wasteful but it works for me. Once I have everything layed out the way I want I secure the roadbed with drywall screws and any risers.

I use flextrack to draw my center line holding it in place with pushpins. I draw a line between random spaced ties onto the plywood. Yes, tedious, but necessary.

I get the cork roadbed ready.

Spread carpenter's glue on the plywood. I run a bead and spread with a old putty knife. Now I apply the cork roadbed along the centerline using both sides. I secure with pushpins . You get a little adjustment time but not much. The carpenter's glue is quite tacky and holds very well. Secure the track with pushpins. Leave overnight to dry.

Now for the flextrack.

Remove several ties from both ends. Save the ties! Attach rail joiners and solder them. I only solder two lenghts. Past experience has show me, in my climate, too many solder joint's doesn't allow for expansion or contraction. Kinked rail will lead you to much fustration.

Spread carpenter's glue on top of the cork roadbed. Use that putty knife! Lay your flextrack centerline along the cork centerline. Use those pushpins to hold your track in place. Allow to dry overnight.

When dry use those saved ties to fill in the gaps at the rail joints. Shave off the spike and tieplate detail. Shove them under the rail joint's and presto! Contuneous rail and ties.

My basement resides in the Northeast with great climate extreams. In five years I haven't had a problem with my track.

For turnouts I don't do anything more than spike them in place. I wan't to keep them loose for possible replacement.

[Blind Bruce]

When you say "spike", what exactly does this mean? Do you use HO spikes like handlayed track? Where do the spikes go? Do you place them between ties or through the ties? If through the ties, is it necessary to drill them first?
My original question was a bit misleading. I take a LOT of time aligning my track so I merely wanted a method to glue it down after I mess with it a few days. I would remove any nails that I used after the glue sets. But if spiking, I may not need any glue.
Incidently, my roarbed is over foam.
BB

[DavidJ611]

QUOTE: When you say "spike", what exactly does this mean?

Bruce, I believe the guys who said "spike" the track in place in this instance were using the term to mean "nail" the track in place. Although "nail" is a more expicit word choice (less confusion), "spike" is just more fun to say because it sounds more railroady. [:p]

I like the idea about using push pins for temporarily securing the track, provided they don't stretch out the predrilled holes in the ties. (I don't remember for sure, but I think I have traditionally used 20ga.(?) 1/2" wire nails.) Push pins would certainly be easier to deal insert and subsequently remove if you go that route. [8D]

-Dave

[joeyegarner]

I have never used Glue to lay my track, I hear lots of things about laytex caulk[(-D], it has always worked for me to use track nails or a simular type with the holes provided in the ties. (I first use Glue to lay my cork roadbed then I come back with track using tacks, after that you lay your ballast with glue and water.) I don't think some things can be improved apon[soapbox]. The one thing I have always known is the track will expand and shrink with the change in temp and weather. (Think about it) Just my oppinion[2c].

[jxtrrx]

QUOTE: Originally posted by Don Gibson

Bruce:

GLUEING CORK kil's it's sound deadening properties - like white glue when it dry's when applying ballast. I apply 3M (a Latex spray) to one side of cork and press it into place for sucuring roadbed, and use spikes to hold the trackwork in place. Everything is held in place - and removable.

Don,
How do you secure ballast without killing the sound deadening with the glue?
Thanks.

[Budliner]

QUOTE: Originally posted by lesterperry

[?] Glue it? I never glue track down, what if you want to make a change later? I suggest slideing one rail about 1/2 way back on the ties then connect next section. After that fasten one end with a small nail ( don't remember the size think it is 17) Then place track where you desire and nail it. Slide the rails together at the joint and continue. this makes smooooooth joints in turns and is also prototipical. You wil have to cut the long rail at turnouts and use it on the other side to continue the stagger. Ta the rail joint you can use an exacto knife to remove cleats on ties for clearence for connector.
Les

thats how I feel I never liked to glue down track or even the balast , as I have a bad memory as a kid removing some track that I did get to glue down the balast on . I had to toss out the track then it was bent glued and just junk. I have brass rail now (it was chep)1.6 mile of ho dble track actualy and I hear that the brass rail is still used on outside trackage. this is cool as I also am in the northeast and we get the temps up and down sometimes in the same day one day I got 75 rain 30 snow then it was 10 with windchill and lighting but my trains seem to still run fine. guess my tolarences arnt that close I have been on the hunt for some of that awsom peko rail in nicklesilver. but I hate to sink $130 for 25 pcs ah what fun we have. so my vote is to not glue I have tryed to just lay some balast down and not glue it but it has a way of findind the cracks and ending up on the floor. hmm what to do... I guess I would love to have the track look like the main line with the built up balast

B-

[chateauricher]

QUOTE: Originally posted by Blind Bruce
When you say "spike", what exactly does this mean?

Actually, he is referring to track nails, small nails used to hold the track in place.

QUOTE: Where do the spikes go? Do you place them between ties or through the ties? If through the ties, is it necessary to drill them first?

Most manufacturers of HO and N-scale track (both flex and rigid/sectional) include small holes in some ties (spaced every few inches) specifially for track nails. You probably won't have to do any drilling.

QUOTE: Incidently, my roadbed is over foam.

Using track nails on foam won't work. Track nails should be used only if your benchwork is made of wood. The nails just won't hold in foam and will eventually work loose.

However, for temporary laying of track (ie: for designing purposes), pins (the long ones used for sewing) would work well to hold the track in place long enough for you to fine tune your layout. Pins would also work well to hold the track in place while the glue or caulking dry.

[Fergmiester]

I've learned through trial and error and a lot of error at that! The best way to lay track is as follows:

-Tack it with rail nails
-Check alignment with a long straight edge (Curves can be checked with a long piece of balsa bent allong the outer rail edge)
Check and eliminate dips and bumps
-ballast track

Once your happy with everything run a finicky engine on the track and if it doesn't jump the rails then set the ballast with thinned glue. 1 part water 1part glue add a touch of india ink for colour.

You can glue the track to the cork but if the cork is lumpy you're in for a disaster. Been there, done it and thrown in the T-shirt!

Fergie

[railroadyoshi]

Blind Bruce, thanks for asking my question about spiking and whether holes for them have to be drilled etc.

[bogp40]

If you use to nail holes in the center of the tie (nailing track to cork over wood), be careful not to set the nails to hard. The tie will bend as you depress the cork. I still feel that using latex caulk and pinning/ weighting the sections gives the most leaway and speed for laying. Minor adjustments or repositioning can be done easily. I would never try to add ballast at this time. When laying track you are more concerned with the quality of you trackwork and should not worry about ballast. Some caulk is bound to ooze between ties that can be cleaned later. Plus as you weight the track, how are you going to ballast. If you need to make any adjustments, they will be tough to do will ballast.
But as always, just absorb all the info and come up with what works the best in your case.
Bob K.

[selector]

This is a throw away, so of limited value to what has already been said:

In the Canadian Armed Forces, the expression goes, "Time spent on recce is seldom wasted." IOW, you have to observe and study the land that you are meant to control.

Based on my own experiences over the past two days (Fergie knows), the dictum can be modified to, "Time spent on trackwork is..."

[MisterBeasley]

I've got a foam base and foam roadbed, so nails aren't really an option. When I want to try something out, I take a paper clip and re-bend it into a long U. Then I use that to hold some track down. Once I'm ready to glue, I use the same clips to hold critical curves in place until the glue sets. I've got some track that's been clipped down for months now, and it's still solidly in place.

[Seamonster]

I realise that this discussion has been on HO track, but here's how I do my N track. I glue the cork down with white glue. Then I lay the track and hold it down with HO track spikes. I can pu***he spikes into the cork beside the ties and the head of the spike will go over the tie and hold it in place. The spike goes into the cork easily, hold well enough until I get the ballast down, then it is removed. if I miss a few spikes, their black colour blends right in to the tie. I find it too difficult to drill holes in N scale ties to push pins through, and they go right through the cork to the plywood and have to be hammered in place anyway. I will put one pin permanently at each of the three ends of a turnout, though. I use diluted white glue to hold the ballast in place and that's all that holds the track in place. If I have to remove any tracks later (which I have been doing a lot of lately) soaking the ballast turns it to mush and the track can be lifted with a putty knife and cleaned and re-used. The cork isn't salvagable, though, but because it was fastened with white glue, I can soak the residue and scrape it up.

[loathar]

Ferg-Thanks for that adding color to the ballast glue idea. I never thought of that.

[Don Gibson]

QUOTE: Originally posted by jxtrrx

QUOTE: Originally posted by Don Gibson

Bruce:

GLUEING CORK kil's it's sound deadening properties - like white glue when it dry's when applying ballast. I apply 3M (a Latex spray) to one side of cork and press it into place for sucuring roadbed, and use spikes to hold the trackwork in place. Everything is held in place - and removable.

Don,
How do you secure ballast without killing the sound deadening with the glue?
Thanks.

I used matte medium and ground cork. Other's matte medium and stone .I have even heard of silicone rubber being used with track squished into it.

Re:Spiking.
I meant 'spiking' with code 100 track spikes into cork. It secures it in place, and allow's removal. A pair of LONG NOSE PLIARS does the trick. There are spiking holes in turnout's and flextrack on both rairead's to allow this.