REQUEST! Lobby for a classic topics section in this forum?

[chateauricher]

Ken,

You do raise some very interesting and quite valid points.

However, having a place where people can easily find links to useful threads in no way prevents people from posting their questions. It only makes it easier for members to find information quickly. Members would have the option to go to those existing topics, or post a new one.

[Eriediamond]

Gentlemen and ladies, I cast my vote as nay. Reasons; I quess that we should ask ourselves why we are here on this forum. My answer is that first I'm a model railroader and I enjoy helping other people when I can. I can also say that I enjoy the company of the good people here, you are all like a second familiy to me. Secondly I liken this forum to a local hobby shop where new and experienced alike can get help when they need or want it. Sure there are questions raised that could easily be classified as "classic", and sure, someone could easily go to a "classic topic" section and look for an answer to their question, but then are we to become the "walthers" catalog of the forums? I don't think we should be. If some one new comes on the forum, and I mean new to the hobby or-and new to computors and asks a simple question that was answered several weeks ago, are we to refer them to a "classic" section for their answer? If so, we are adding another brick to the cold shoulder wall that is being built for new people. I for one, don't want to do that. On the other hand I can agree that it may be helpful for some of us to look up some things from the past postings if that is the intent here, but from what I gather from some of the coments is that we don't want to be bothered by questions or ideas that are basic knowledge to a lot of us with experience. So, after saying all this, I ask again, why are we here? Respectfuly, just my opinion, Ken

[chateauricher]

A few months back, Aggrojones started a Compilation of useful threads topic. A brilliant idea that should be resurrected.
http://www.trains.com/community/forum/topic.asp?page=1&TOPIC_ID=36405

By having this "information central", we may limit the number of repetitive questions since people will have a place to go to find the information they need. Most of us, I'm sure, are not going to spend time wading through dozens of pages just in the off chance you might find answers to your question that someone else posted.

By stickying this one topic, it can then be accessed by any member, both veteran and novice. Then, as new useful topics come up, members can post links to them there. Bergie then has but one place to look to edit out the duplicates; and make sure that only links to topics are posted. It won't eat up a lot of space on the first page. It would also mean it doesn't matter how far back any of the "useful topics" go, since you could easily find a link to it. For those of us who access this forum regularly while we're away from home, we would have an easy way to get to these topics.

Again... I vote : sticky the Compilation of useful threads.

Simple. Efficient. Effective.

[Pruitt]

QUOTE: Originally posted by Grubby


No you win because you can be more self righteous not less abrasive (I concede I am more abrasive/aggressive).... as usual you start the fight then retreat to the moral high ground, rallying your fellow moral crusaders around you as you go... then playing to the audience like you are/were in the right all along. Every saracastic comment that has been posted prolongs the argument. As usual, the thread will be deleted and you will sit in wait until the next time you can fire an arrogant potshot at an unsuspecting forumer...and then we can do this all again.

Maybe no one else notices Mark, but I do. [;)]

You know, I really don't understand your problem with me. I asked you, and not impolitely, why you hang around a forum where by your own admission you think so little is worhwhile ("It is a shame because your posts are one of the very few things on the forum that are actually in-depth enough to be of any real value to the modeller." and "It seems the consistent "polling" and chitchat threads are what people want, so let them have it."), I certainly wouldn't stick around if I felt that way. And you proceed to flame me. The question wasn't meant to be snide or sarcastic - it was just a question.

I probably sound rather pendantic at times, and maybe even pompous on occasion. Certainly verbose, I'll admit. But all I've done on opinion type threads is posted my own opinion, usually with an explanation as to why I think the way I do. Everyone does who post on those. I have never belittled anyone for having a different opinion, and have only rarely responded in kind to snideness or rudeness. I certainly have never resorted to name calling or obscenities (implied or explicit), because: 1. That behavior is against the board rules - as Bergie has made clear on more than one occasion; and 2. A lot of teens and even younger folks frequent these forums, and such behavior around them is simply unacceptable.

So, if possible without name-calling or obscenities, please tell me what your problem with me is. Do you just resent the fact that I have an opinion and am not afraid to state it plainly? Is it that I would dare to have an opinion different from some of the more revered members of this forum? Or what?

Again, my question about why you hang out here was only a question. It was not intended to start a war. If it will help soothe your ruffled feathers, then I apologize for asking.

Can we move on now, please?

[Grubby]

QUOTE: Originally posted by Brunton

QUOTE: Originally posted by andrechapelon

What we have here, ladies and gentleman, is your classic urination derby (aka pissing contest). While watching one is about as interesting as watching paint dry, you gotta give the contestants points for perservering long after they both would been have expected to run dry.

By way of explanation, there are basically 2 kinds of urination derby. The first is one where the winner produces the greatest volume. That one is far more boring than the one where the determining factor is distance and accuracy.

This is one is your run-of-the-mill volume contest.

Andre

You're right, Andre, that's why I didn't generate a more detailed reply - I'd rather not prolong it (though I am very curious as to what a "jobsworthy" is).

But I hope I at least win the category for less abrasive participant....

No you win because you can be more self righteous not less abrasive (I concede I am more abrasive/aggressive).... as usual you start the fight then retreat to the moral high ground, rallying your fellow moral crusaders around you as you go... then playing to the audience like you are/were in the right all along. Every saracastic comment that has been posted prolongs the argument. As usual, the thread will be deleted and you will sit in wait until the next time you can fire an arrogant potshot at an unsuspecting forumer...and then we can do this all again.

Maybe no one else notices Mark, but I do. [;)]

[jfugate]

QUOTE: Originally posted by Big_Boy_4005
It might be wise to move on from this issue, rather than try our host's patience, and fight amongst ourselves.

Agreed. Why fight it?

The simplest solution to this whole issue is just move the "living" version of my Forum Clinics to an area I completely control, then I can easily add new content, upgrade existing content, add video clips -- do whatever I want! [swg]

On the internet, anything can be just one link away:
http://mymemoirs.net/model-trains/forum/phpBB2/viewtopic.php?t=157

[Big_Boy_4005]

Joe, I agree with you, but I think we have a problem, which is: our host is going to do as they see fit. This is not a democracy, and good idea or not, for whatever reason it doesn't seem to be happening.

I really wi***hey would just retitle the 70th anniversary boxcar forum, and the prototype information forum to something more useful, in an effort to take some of the pressure off general. Things get buried way too fast here.

Actually, something as simple as naming the forums "I HAVE A QUESTION" and "I HAVE A STATEMENT" might be most effective.

It's too bad there isn't a limit for members starting topics, something like one per forum per day. I can think of a few people who could use some limits like that. Matter of fact, it might help prevent some of the unplesantness we saw a couple of weeks ago.

Limits like that wouldn't bother me any.

Quality, not quantity, boys.

It might be wise to move on from this issue, rather than try our host's patience, and fight amongst ourselves.

[Pruitt]

QUOTE: Originally posted by andrechapelon

What we have here, ladies and gentleman, is your classic urination derby (aka pissing contest). While watching one is about as interesting as watching paint dry, you gotta give the contestants points for perservering long after they both would been have expected to run dry.

By way of explanation, there are basically 2 kinds of urination derby. The first is one where the winner produces the greatest volume. That one is far more boring than the one where the determining factor is distance and accuracy.

This is one is your run-of-the-mill volume contest.

Andre

You're right, Andre, that's why I didn't generate a more detailed reply - I'd rather not prolong it (though I am very curious as to what a "jobsworthy" is).

But I hope I at least win the category for less abrasive participant....

[andrechapelon]

QUOTE: Originally posted by Brunton

QUOTE: Originally posted by Grubby

Perhaps you should review who mentioned who first. I merely responded to your very direct comments about me. I made absolutely no mention of you anywhere in any post in the thread.... or perhaps it is convenient to overlook that for self justification?

Implied obscenities? The only implication is what you interpret it to be. You seem keen to hide behind the "rules of the forum" as you do every time you make some thinly disguised attack on someone, then don't like the response.

Complain away, I am sure that messages from a "jobsworth" like you carry soooooo much weight. If you can't deal with the fact that you are annoying because you continue to "crusade" , complain away. I am yet to see any breach of anything other than good manners. If running to the "authorities" every time someone takes a different view to you is your MO, it is no wonder that you are so insecure.

GL HF

Whatever. This tripe isn't even worth the effort of addressing specifically. Suffice it to say you should read your own posts before making clearly false statements. [8]

What we have here, ladies and gentleman, is your classic urination derby (aka pissing contest). While watching one is about as interesting as watching paint dry, you gotta give the contestants points for perservering long after they both would been have expected to run dry.

By way of explanation, there are basically 2 kinds of urination derby. The first is one where the winner produces the greatest volume. That one is far more boring than the one where the determining factor is distance and accuracy.

This is one is your run-of-the-mill volume contest.

Andre

[Pruitt]

QUOTE: Originally posted by Grubby

Perhaps you should review who mentioned who first. I merely responded to your very direct comments about me. I made absolutely no mention of you anywhere in any post in the thread.... or perhaps it is convenient to overlook that for self justification?

Implied obscenities? The only implication is what you interpret it to be. You seem keen to hide behind the "rules of the forum" as you do every time you make some thinly disguised attack on someone, then don't like the response.

Complain away, I am sure that messages from a "jobsworth" like you carry soooooo much weight. If you can't deal with the fact that you are annoying because you continue to "crusade" , complain away. I am yet to see any breach of anything other than good manners. If running to the "authorities" every time someone takes a different view to you is your MO, it is no wonder that you are so insecure.

GL HF

Whatever. This tripe isn't even worth the effort of addressing specifically. Suffice it to say you should read your own posts before making clearly false statements. [8]

[Grubby]

Perhaps you should review who mentioned who first. I merely responded to your very direct comments about me. I made absolutely no mention of you anywhere in any post in the thread.... or perhaps it is convenient to overlook that for self justification?

Implied obscenities? The only implication is what you interpret it to be. You seem keen to hide behind the "rules of the forum" as you do every time you make some thinly disguised attack on someone, then don't like the response.

Complain away, I am sure that messages from a "jobsworth" like you carry soooooo much weight. If you can't deal with the fact that you are annoying because you continue to "crusade" , complain away. I am yet to see any breach of anything other than good manners. If running to the "authorities" every time someone takes a different view to you is your MO, it is no wonder that you are so insecure.

GL HF

[Pruitt]

QUOTE: Originally posted by Grubby

QUOTE: I'm curious, Grubby, with such an obvious low opinion of most of the forum members, why are you here?

Because for every 10 try-hard amateur moderators and every 10 random pollsters and one Mark B, there are people with genuine passion and ideas that I can learn from. Thats why I can here in the first place, not to protect MR's interests (they can look after themselves), not to hero worship anyone , not to engage in forum warfare but to sit back and learn. You seem to have another agenda, thats fine, I'll accomodate you if necessary.

Whilst I don't feel the continual need to boost my post count by polling the forum on whether they prefer boxers or briefs whilst operating, I read and learn, and comment or question when I need to. I am sorry if a desire to learn confuses you Mark, perhaps you may care to review the trite and smug comments you post along the way and recognise that you are an annoying little twerp.

GFY.

Grubby -

It appears that, just as you consider most of us to be beneath you, you consider the rules of this board to be beneath you as well.Your personal attack and name calling, as well as your implied obscenities, are clear violations of those rules. Consider yourself complained about to the moderator.

[Grubby]

If it is what you think it is, and it is somehow wrong, why would you quote it?

[Anonymous]

QUOTE: Originally posted by Grubby

GFY.

Grubby, I hope gfy is your initials or something.

If it means what I think it means, It's time to flag the moderators to come clean house.

There are kids here, and we don't need that.

[Anonymous]

QUOTE: Originally posted by Grubby

GFY.

[jwr_1986]

I'll back the classics forum but I'd like to see some more divisions other than the four that we have now. Not alot like I have seen on other forums but just a few more would be nice.

Jesse

[jfugate]

QUOTE: Originally posted by SpaceMouse
Often "attaboys" here are more meant to bump the thread rather than to pat your back, Joe. Still a compliment, but not as groupyish.

Good point, Chip.

Attaboy. [swg]

[Grubby]

QUOTE: I'm curious, Grubby, with such an obvious low opinion of most of the forum members, why are you here?

Because for every 10 try-hard amateur moderators and every 10 random pollsters and one Mark B, there are people with genuine passion and ideas that I can learn from. Thats why I can here in the first place, not to protect MR's interests (they can look after themselves), not to hero worship anyone , not to engage in forum warfare but to sit back and learn. You seem to have another agenda, thats fine, I'll accomodate you if necessary.

Whilst I don't feel the continual need to boost my post count by polling the forum on whether they prefer boxers or briefs whilst operating, I read and learn, and comment or question when I need to. I am sorry if a desire to learn confuses you Mark, perhaps you may care to review the trite and smug comments you post along the way and recognise that you are an annoying little twerp.

GFY.

[ereimer]

i agree , it would be great to be able to find some of the more useful topics without looking through a ton of old threads , or trying to get the search to co-operate (never seems to work for me anyway hehe)

[SpaceMouse]

QUOTE: Originally posted by jfugate

QUOTE: Originally posted by CARRfan


Now that it's on your website, I actually re-visted your scenery material, and it was much easier to view without all the posts in between! I got more out of it this time!

Here's one person that will actually view the material now, instead of scrolling past the "Forum Clinic" threads along with the "coffee shop" because the threads are so long I just won't bother.

I have to agree the "new-and-improved" scenery clinic over here: http://mymemoirs.net/model-trains/forum/phpBB2/viewtopic.php?t=157

... is now mostly meat and very little chaff. Many of the posts between topics were, "good stuff, Joe, looking forward to more" sort of attaboys, and while reassuring, just added bulk to the thread.

The new and improved scenery clinic is now lean and mean, plus has a lot more photos illustrating the points.

But I don't want to discourage questions and comments ... those can be most helpful and enlightening as well. However, you don't really need to post any "attaboy" comments in the thread ... you can send those to me directly if you feel you must comment along that line.

Often "attaboys" here are more meant to bump the thread rather than to pat your back, Joe. Still a compliment, but not as groupyish.

[jfugate]

QUOTE: Originally posted by CARRfan


Now that it's on your website, I actually re-visted your scenery material, and it was much easier to view without all the posts in between! I got more out of it this time!

Here's one person that will actually view the material now, instead of scrolling past the "Forum Clinic" threads along with the "coffee shop" because the threads are so long I just won't bother.

I have to agree the "new-and-improved" scenery clinic over here: http://mymemoirs.net/model-trains/forum/phpBB2/viewtopic.php?t=157

... is now mostly meat and very little chaff. Many of the posts between topics were, "good stuff, Joe, looking forward to more" sort of attaboys, and while reassuring, just added bulk to the thread.

The new and improved scenery clinic is now lean and mean, plus has a lot more photos illustrating the points.

But I don't want to discourage questions and comments ... those can be most helpful and enlightening as well. However, you don't really need to post any "attaboy" comments in the thread ... you can send those to me directly if you feel you must comment along that line.

[jxtrrx]

Hey Joe. Another "nay-sayer" here. Like some of the others, please know that my comments in NO way were a criticism of your material. You are a huge asset to our group, and I will click on a topic I don't even care about if I see you've posted to it. Plus, I've read and enjoyed all three of your clinics more than once... and will go through them all again, I'm sure. I just don't think creating a new "Classics" area would work in the long term (for all the reasons now beaten to death in this thread).

[Pruitt]

QUOTE: Originally posted by jfugate


Having your own web site and putting most of the content you think would be of permanent value there probably makes the most sense. That's why I capitulated rather quickly after seeing the nay-sayer posts on this thread.

Being the first of the nay-sayers, I'll just add that I'm not a hard case on it. I think the current arrangement, inconvenient as it may be at times, is the best one - the clinics get maximum exposure in the General Discussion forum. But if Kalmbach decides to go with your request, Joe, good for them and you. I'll still be floating around the forum just as I am now (darn! still can't get rid of me![:p]).

And right now, I know when something has been added to the clinics because they pop up on the first few pages again. I don't have to go look for them - they sort of come to me!

Anyway, my nay-saying was just my own opinion, not an indignant

"NO!"

[:o)]

[Anonymous]

Joe, respectfully, I think I've been called a "nay-sayer" due to my post above, but I do enjoy your material.

I also recommended you put your material on your website over on the scenery thread a few days ago. (Apparently, the words out of one persons mouth makes them a nay-sayer - the same words out of another's are "words of wisdom"). [:D] This is said tongue-in-cheek, in a good humored way - I hope it reads properly - humor/sarcasm are hard to judge in written form...


Now that it's on your website, I actually re-visted your scenery material, and it was much easier to view without all the posts in between! I got more out of it this time!

Here's one person that will actually view the material now, instead of scrolling past the "Forum Clinic" threads along with the "coffee shop" because the threads are so long I just won't bother.

I'll also point people to your website to check them out now.

Thanks for the info, but also thanks for respecting the fact that this is MR's forum. If it's setup this way, it's obviously how they want it. I respect them for that.

(This is not directed specifically at Joe...)
MR is probably getting annoyed by the pleas for change, possibly making them question whether they should keep this forum here or not. Terry posted a couple weeks about the thin ice the forum is already on. Slamming MR on the way they run their forum probably won't help any.

Again, Joe, keep up the good work, and I'll be checking out your site for the info... I'm glad we can give this a rest...

[selector]

By the way, Joe, there is always middle ground. Throw my name in for supporting the establishment of a forum dealing with How-to's...or Clinics. [:)]

[selector]

QUOTE: Originally posted by CNJ831

Are posters here so truly naive ? ...
CNJ831

I don't consider myself naive. I just like things the way they are...minus the wretched polls.

It would be helpful if our host's search feature were considerably more adept at retrieving requested topics...an improvement there might make all the difference for those who are not particularly keen on wading through all the daily fluff. I also wonder how many surfers get impatient and leave before they get a good appreciation for the strengths of this forum because of that weakness...they don't get meaningful results from their subject searches.

But, and I speak only for myself, I come here to enjoy what I enjoy, be that fluff, polls ([%-)], clinics, or reports from earnest members about their experiences. If I had to jump between four other pages to get a quarter of the posts on each, it would detract from the flavour implied by the word "general".

Joe posts his clinics here because the greater exposure is here. He would get less exposure in the Layouts forum due to the restricted range of viewers there. I don't find fault; he got a warm and enthusiastic response, and so he should...he has earned his stripes. I would feel badly if he withdrew is well-intentioned efforts here, but he does have a show to run, and must find the audience that will keep him solvent. I would do the same.

So, CNJ, I am not naive, just as YOU are not naive. We merely have different things that appeal to us.

-Respectfully...

[SpaceMouse]

I'm not a groupie (I hope) and I don't have 6 stars, but I feel that there does need to be a place for these forums, if for no other reason than you guys are feeling discouraged by the venue.

That is not to say that the Halloween Costume tread doesn't have a place. This place is would not be as successful if there wasn't as social aspect to it.

I would support a separate forum. But I don't have a problem with discrimination of topics. I think it should be a case by case petition of Bergie to get accepted. But I would also predict this. A lot fewer people would see them in a separate forum. Which in turn means you'll get less response--and less productive response, than you would in the general forum.

Unless you get in on the clinics at the beginning, reading the clinics ac be very daunting. How many people will read Joe's DCC clinic from start to finish now that it is up to, what, 16 pages. So while I support your desire to have a separate forum, I believe there will be trade offs.

[Attaboy]

I don't see the problem, I already have an easily accessible list of important forum threads, they're called bookmarks. I have general folder for all my train stuff and a sub folder in it for forum threads that contain useful information. There is not problem with "who decides what qualifies" because I do. And one click takes me right to the thread. If it's a large form thread like the Coffee Shop here, I can even bookmark the specific page. So what's the problem here people?

[jfugate]

As usual, Byron, great words of wisdom. Thanks for taking the time to write up your thoughts.

Having your own web site and putting most of the content you think would be of permanent value there probably makes the most sense. That's why I capitulated rather quickly after seeing the nay-sayer posts on this thread.

As long as there's a permanent place on the web to point people at for the info, doesn't much matter where it ends up on this forum, does it?