How many major manufacturers are there?

[tsgtbob]

I had actually forgotten that I started this thread [:o)]
Anyway, I was not too concerned with the place that the models are made, but just to get the flavor of how large the HO/N scale market was.
I had forgotten just how many makers of HO stuff are out there.
And yes, Arbour's stuff did suck. I have an H-8 and no it never has ran. After fabbing up brass main and valve gear (an eduction in itself) I switched to O scale!
Recently, Atlas O announced that they were dropping the licenced from Lionle TMCC command control for DCC. Boy has that stirred up a hornet's nest[:(!]
Any thoughts from the modelers here?

[Medina1128]

There's way more than umpteen. If I've told them once, I've told them a gajillion times, DON'T EXAGGERATE....

[jrbernier]

I am just going to look at HO. When it comes to a '600 lb gorilla' in HO scale, the Athearn/MDC/Horizon combine is truely a self contained HO model trrain manufacturer. Walther used to actually produce models, but they justmake arrangements to import models that they have had others build the prototype 'model' for. Bachmann is into many other hobby items, and is part of a foreign operation. Bowser/English/Stewart is another manufacturer, but is not the size of Athearn.
Most model train manufacturer's in the US(even before 'globalization') have been small, and many time a 'sideline' of another industry.

Jim

[Texas Zepher]

QUOTE: Originally posted by jsalemi
Kadee ...and has been coming on strong with their rolling stock.

QUOTE: Originally posted by Texas Zepher
They have made what 3 HO freight cars?

Guess you haven't checked Kadee's web site lately -- they've put out well over 100 different 40' and 50 PS-1 boxcars and PS-2 covered hoppers over the past couple of years, with 4 new releases a month.

Kadee's web site says they have only three types, with the "fourth" one due this month.

You just count different than most people do. We aren't counting different paint schemes just different cars. If one starts counting a different paint scheme as a different car that starts making really minor players like "Yesteryear" and "ShowMe" into big players.

[orsonroy]

QUOTE: Originally posted by tsgtbob
Sadly, I have also seen some nice makers fall by the wayside, anyone here remember Arbour models, or for that matter Varney?

Arbour stuff sucked. A steam kit should not be made up of white metal castings that are low in tin content. The castings were soft, badly cast, and didn't assemble properly. I don't think anyone ever got their Allegeney to run! Bowser bought up Arbour's inventory when they went belly-up, and has never re-released ANY of their offerings, mostly because they, as a professional steam kit manufacturer, realized that they couldn't cost-effectively retool the Arbour line for commercial success. They're still sitting on the Arbour parts inventory, and are more than willing to sell you parts (the only thing I've found useful in the Arbour line is their NKP Berkshire pilot)

Varney stuff was crude, but at least ran reliably. Most of the Varney rolling stock lives on in the Life Like and Model Power toy train lines, and some of the Varney steam is in the Bowser catalog (Bowser STILL makes the Varney Dockside!). So don't mourn the loss of Varney; it's still with us, in disguise!

[tsgtbob]

Thanks everyone!!!
The whole reason for this exercise was to determine how much of the model railroad market was involved in HO, versus O gauge/ scale Seems to me that the HO market could swallow whole the "O" market and not even get indigestion!!!
The 3 railers seem to think the WHOLE market is divvied up between the Orange camp and the Purple camp. IMHO, Horizion could probably take over the whole shebang!!! Most forget there is a Weaver, that again, IMHO almost singlehandedly keeps 2 rail alive.
Sadly, I have also seen some nice makers fall by the wayside, anyone here remember Arbour models, or for that matter Varney?
I am a die hard 2 rail "O" scaler, but look to my HO roots for inspiration.
Also, is this Horizion that now holds Atheran the same one that has Tower Hobbies in the R/C world?

[DSchmitt]

QUOTE: Originally posted by jsalemi

And in those five types of cars, they've made over a hundred different models. So the question is, are we counting types, or total runs? Because if we're counting types, just about every rolling stock manufacturer just makes a few types, and then decorates them differently. [:)]

N scale may have the leader in different mass produced car types by one company

Here is a lint to the list of Micro Trains car styles

http://www.micro-trains.com/carstyle.htm

I counted 94 car types (all different molds) in N scale standard gauge.

[orsonroy]

QUOTE: Originally posted by jsalemi

And in those five types of cars, they've made over a hundred different models. So the question is, are we counting types, or total runs? Because if we're counting types, just about every rolling stock manufacturer just makes a few types, and then decorates them differently. [:)]

Too true. If we were to count based on who has the largest catalog of different base models, Westerfield would win hands down! But no one really counts them in the big leagues, except as the "king of the cottage industries" category.

[Anonymous]

And in those five types of cars, they've made over a hundred different models. So the question is, are we counting types, or total runs? Because if we're counting types, just about every rolling stock manufacturer just makes a few types, and then decorates them differently. [:)]

[orsonroy]

QUOTE: Originally posted by Texas Zepher
Kadee is the top supplier of couplers for all scales. If I was to put Kadee into a "scale" manufacturer, I would put them in N-scale with their Micro Trains stuff. They have made what 3 HO freight cars?

One problem: Kadee and Micro-Trains aren't the same company. The Kadee brothers got into a huge fight well over 15 years ago and split Kadee into two different companies, with no ties whatsoever. If you notice, Kadee doesn't sell ANY N scale stuff any more.

And Kadee makes exactly FIVE cars: 50' PS-1 box, 40' PS-1 box, twin covered hoppper, log cars, and a logging caboose.

[CNJ831]

QUOTE: Originally posted by orsonroy

QUOTE: Originally posted by CNJ831

If we are honestly talking major players, then it is really only Walthers, Atlas, Horizon, Bachmann, and maybe Woodland Scenics, when it comes to independent American companies.

Bachmann's a Chinese company, not an American one. Of the five mentioned above, it's by far the largest (we only see a tiny amount of the stuff Bachmann cranks out per year).

QUOTE:
This is down considerably from even ten years ago. In my book all the rest (Bowser, MP, Accurail, BLI, DPM, IHC, Con-Cor, et al.) would be considered second string. If one includes companies outside the U.S. then things become much more complicated

IHC's bigger than you think, and is at least as large as Horizon. And you completely forgot Model Power, which is another foreign manufacturer in the same size range as Bachmann.

I was including only those historically considered as involved in the manufacture of RR items State-side, separating them from the historically European and Asian companies. Granted, some former U.S. companies are now under the control of firms not on U.S. soil. And while Model Power (which I did cite as MP) and IHC may be big players in the hobby industry overall, they are decidely second string in the model railroading field. I can't say I know a single hobbyist who would seriously buy MP locomotives or rollingstock!

And look for the lists of first and second tier companies to further consolidate over the next few years as the market dwindles further.

CNJ831

[Anonymous]

QUOTE: Originally posted by Texas Zepher

Kadee is the top supplier of couplers for all scales. If I was to put Kadee into a "scale" manufacturer, I would put them in N-scale with their Micro Trains stuff. They have made what 3 HO freight cars?

Guess you haven't checked Kadee's web site lately -- they've put out well over 100 different 40' and 50 PS-1 boxcars and PS-2 covered hoppers over the past couple of years, with 4 new releases a month. Pricey, but hot sellers because of their excellent detailing. I've got 9 of their box cars (so far [:)]), and they're the pride and joy of my fleet. They all sit on my 'show train' that comes out for visitors.

[orsonroy]

QUOTE: Originally posted by CNJ831

If we are honestly talking major players, then it is really only Walthers, Atlas, Horizon, Bachmann, and maybe Woodland Scenics, when it comes to independent American companies.

Bachmann's a Chinese company, not an American one. Of the five mentioned above, it's by far the largest (we only see a tiny amount of the stuff Bachmann cranks out per year).

QUOTE:
This is down considerably from even ten years ago. In my book all the rest (Bowser, MP, Accurail, BLI, DPM, IHC, Con-Cor, et al.) would be considered second string. If one includes companies outside the U.S. then things become much more complicated

IHC's bigger than you think, and is at least as large as Horizon. And you completely forgot Model Power, which is another foreign manufacturer in the same size range as Bachmann.

Of the truly "American" manufacturing companies in the "big leagues", there's really only Walthers, Horizon, Kadee and Atlas left (in that order). And I'm not so sure that Atlas is really American owned. In N scale, there's really only Micro-Trains and Atlas in the first tier (which are American companies)

For a decent listing of second and third tier model manufacturers, look at the Walthers catalogs (N, HO and large scale)

[CNJ831]

If we are honestly talking major players, then it is really only Walthers, Atlas, Horizon, Bachmann, and maybe Woodland Scenics, when it comes to independent American companies. This is down considerably from even ten years ago. In my book all the rest (Bowser, MP, Accurail, BLI, DPM, IHC, Con-Cor, et al.) would be considered second string. If one includes companies outside the U.S. then things become much more complicated.

CNJ831

[Texas Zepher]

I think a lot of these answers are missing the spirit of the question.

Kadee is the top supplier of couplers for all scales. If I was to put Kadee into a "scale" manufacturer, I would put them in N-scale with their Micro Trains stuff. They have made what 3 HO freight cars?

Nor would I think that Woodland Scenics and some of those others could be considered a major player into a "scale". They might have a few things that are a particular scale but most of their stuff is scale indpendent. I even use N-scale ballast on HO layouts.[:0]....

My first answer to the question was going to be: due to deaths in the family, sales, aquisitions, etc. fewer than a few years ago.
Athearn -> Horizon
Stewart -> Bowser
Bowser -> English
Hobby Town -> Bear
LifeLike -> Walthers
Cambell -> ?
MDC/Roundhouse -> Horizon
Can Intermountain really be considered a separate player due to there exclusivity agreement with Horizon?

A major players I see missing:
Bachmann
IHC
Marklin

[Anonymous]

Some others not already mentioned:
Overland Models
Ajin Precision
Rivarossi (Used to be, anyway)
Bachmann
Life-Like (if you wi***o differentiate from Walthers)
MDC/Roundhouse (now part of Horizon Hobbies, as is Athearn)
IHC
Marklin/Trix
Brawa
Hornby (now owns Rivarossi)
Roco?
Faller
Preiser
Busch
Vollmer
Peco
Shinohara
Model Power
Kibri
Heljan
Design Preservation Models

And the list goes on (check out the Walthers HO reference book for more)...
tsgtbob, you didn't mention if you meant major manufacturers of locomotives!

[Curmudgeon]

Too many manufacturers, or too many trying to enter other's market that barely support one supplier.
Everybody wants a piece of the action, which diminishes the action for all, making smaller runs, which cost more to do.

I could name several.
There is one particularly who is trying to enter half-zero after working in other scales and gauges.
Why?

[tsgtbob]

I had forgotten about some of those makers.

[tatans]

Obviously not enough, why aren't there a lot more North American producers of model railway equipment, surely there is a market (or is there??) for high quality(not always high priced) specialty items for the market, if, as I have read, there is a downturn in the hobby maybe it it's not a good time to get in, But I have noticed large brass dealers have lowered their prices, in some cases a lot, wait, maybe I won't start up a factory to make limited run locomotives, maybe I just answered my own question.

[SpaceMouse]

QUOTE: Originally posted by jsalemi

Bowser, who made steam engines for quite a while and recent bought Stewart, makers of wonderful diesel engines. Intermountain makes both locos and rolling stock. Accurail is also a big maker of rolling stock. I'd consider all these majors.

Kadee is of course the top supplier for couplers, and has been coming on strong with their rolling stock. Red Caboose and Branchline are also moderate size players, as is probably Broadway Limited. I'd call these folks the second tier.

And of course there's a whole subset of folks who are more specialized but still good, like Circuitron, Cooch Industries, Blair Line, Woodland Scenics, and on and on.

In otherwords, Umpteen eighty.

[Anonymous]

Bowser, who made steam engines for quite a while and recent bought Stewart, makers of wonderful diesel engines. Intermountain makes both locos and rolling stock. Accurail is also a big maker of rolling stock. I'd consider all these majors.

Kadee is of course the top supplier for couplers, and has been coming on strong with their rolling stock. Red Caboose and Branchline are also moderate size players, as is probably Broadway Limited. I'd call these folks the second tier.

And of course there's a whole subset of folks who are more specialized but still good, like Circuitron, Cooch Industries, Blair Line, Woodland Scenics, and on and on.

[Anonymous]

Umpteen.

[tsgtbob]

This came up on another forum, and I'm curoius as to haow many major players there are in HO How many HO scale major manufacturers are there? Athearn, Atlas, Walthers and Kato came to mind right away, but what others are there?
O gauge has six major players (Lionel, MTH, Williams, Weaver, K-Line, and Atlas O) S has three (American Models S Helper and "Flyonel")
G has three also (USA trains, Aristo and LGB)
Sadly, O scale (2 rail) only has 2 (Weaver and Atlas O)
Thanks