F45/Santa Fe Pinstripe-Bookend/

[jrbernier]

Don,

The GN SDP40's were built in May 1966. The GN SDP45's were built in June-Aug of 1967. The NdeM SDP40's were built in 2 orders, starting in May 1968, and May 1970. The SP SDP45's were built in May - June of 1967. The SDP40 was a 'catalog' model of the '40' line when the '40' line was introduced in 1966. The ATSF FP45's were built in Dec 1967. The Milw FP45's were built a year later in Dec 1968.
As can be seen, the GN & SP SDP40/45's were built 'before' the FP45 units. ATSF asked for the cowl design for aestetic and several practical reasons:

o - Safe enclosed carbody so the fireman could service the S/G enroute.

o - Sloping windshield due to 'buffeting' experiences with the large 'flat' windshields on the GE U28CG units that already were in passenger service.

o - Reduced wind resistance at passenger speed.

I rode in a MILW FP45 from La Crosse to St Paul(Trailing unit on the Afternoon Hiawatha, an FP7 was leading). They rode very well, not a nice as a E9, but much better than the FP7's. The reason the FP7 was leading was due to the lack of cab signals in the new FP45's - restricting them to a trailing unit status in cab signal territory.

Jim Bernier

[Don Gibson]

ANTONIO:

When ordered, the AT&SF FP-45 was a custom made SD-45 with Steam generation equipment and an enclosed body for aesthetic reason's. The Santa Fe was so pleased ith their design they ordered some F-45 freight unit's - w/o the steam package. EMD's SDP-45, SD-40P, and other's came later.

[jrbernier]

Antonio,

The F45 was about 2 ft longer than a standard SD45, and the FP45 was also a little longer than the SDP45. There is no 'standard' length FP45 that I am aware of. Only 2 railroads bought the FP45(ATSF/MILW) and the MILW ones lacked D/B's.
The Amtrak SDP40F is not even related to the FP45. It is basically a 'stretched' SD40-2 chassis with a cowl carbody. It use 'dash 2' electricals, a 16 cylinder 645 engine, and different trucks under it. The FP45 was pre 'dash 2', and had the 20 cylinder 645 engine and Flexicoil trucks.
There was a rumor in the early 70's that the Milwaukee ordered(MILW 6-8) and later canceled an order for 3 additional FP45's. The rumor was that the frames were 'on the floor' at EMD and were used to build the second order of GN F45's. In my younger days, we chased down the 'suspect' now BN units and did some measuring - standard F45. So much for 'urban myth/rumors' and railfan BS!

Jim Bernier

[AntonioFP45]

QUOTE: Originally posted by Catt


That being said the KATO SD45 mech. is correct for those shells.The ATLAS SD50/60 mech. works just fine for the FP 45 shell though in both cases shims will be needed to center the mechs.

---------Catt, one thing though.

I took one of my Athearn FP45s to my LHS (Happy Hobo Trains). The manager took a new SD50 locomotive and allowed me to compare it to my FP45, side by side and chassis bottom to chassis bottom. The Athearn FP45 body is still too long for the P2K and Atlas SD50/60. This is why I stopped pursuing the project and decided, instead, to repower with Mashima. Additionally, the fuel tanks on the SD50/60 is too short for the FP45 as well. The only solution that I could see is if somehow the trucks could be moved further apart on the chassis, which of course the frame doesn't allow.

For the short fuel tank, a solution is possible since it's plastic Would involve obtaining another plastic fuel tank and doing a little "cutting and splicing" to get the correct length.

QUOTE: Grant Eastman in Canada is getting ready to do a correct F45 shell in resin.

- Great! Hope they consider doing the SDP40f in the future.

[Anonymous]

The N scale F45/FP45 (whichever it is - if I post a photo could anyone identify?) was made to go with a magazine called "Locomotives of the World" published by Del Prado (who seem to be based in Spain) - they offered assorted locos as static models in N scale, the second of which was the FP45 - I bought two copies of that one as there's no other easy way to build an N scale model of these. If you go to ebay.co.uk and type in "Del Prado" you'll find plenty of them, they did some pretty exotic locos. It has a diecast mainframe (with the end platforms and fuel tank) and a plastic bodyshell that clips on top - my plan would be to take a Dremel to it to remove the excess metal and fix it to a Bachmann drive unit, as well as carving the ends to take Micro-Trains couplers in place of the moulded scale knuckles it comes with.

[jrbernier]

Ben,

Most railfan publication list the non war bonnet blue/yelow scheme with the 'book ends' moniker - Look at a standard GP in this paint scheme; dark body with yellow 'book ends'! Other than that Athearn engine, I have never heard about the 'pin stripe' paint scheme - the black/silver most of the time has been referred as the 'zebra' scheme.

Jim

[Anonymous]

BTW, who made the F45's for N scale from the magazine, thanks, Ben

[Anonymous]

Thanks everyone,

when i said pre 72, im meant the blue and yellow, non warbonnet scheme, not the zebra stripe. I thought tht the blue and yellow scheme was called pinstripe?
and black and silver, zebra? Thats what the Athearn RTR CF-7 said, pinstripe. right? then what is the bookend/shelf scheme? anyway, thnks for all the info!
Ben

[jrbernier]

The ATSF changed from black/silver pinstripes to the blue 'book ends' scheme about the time the that the DL600B arrived on the property. IIRC, the DL600B 'alligators' started arriving in the black scheme and later orderscame in the blue 'book ends' scheme. This must be a mid to late 50's time frame.
The FP45's were deliver in the red/silver 'War Bonnet' scheme for passenger service. The F45 class engines followed shortly and were delivered in the blue 'book ends' paint scheme.
After the end of ATSF passenger service, old passenger F's were assigned to freight service and were repainted in a 'Blue Bonnet' paint scheme. After going to the yellow 'War Bonnet' on freight engines, these ex-passenger engine got a 'Yellow Bonnet'. My understanding is that it was too expensive to etch the stainless steel panels on the ex-passenger F's and the modified 'bonnet' schemes were used. The D&H had similar problems with their ex-ATSF PA's and used a 'Blue Bonnet' scheme as well(maybe the ATSF noticed and decide to try it themselve's)!

Jim Bernier

[Catt]

If my memory serves me correctly there never were any N scale F45 commercially available.The only ones are aftermarket resin shells.Some are done correctly and someshould have never seen the light of day.

That being said the KATO SD45 mech. is correct for those shells.The ATLAS SD50/60 mech. works just fine for the FP 45 shell though in both cases shims will be needed to center the mechs.

Grant Eastman in Canada is getting ready to do a correct F45 shell in resin.The last I heard it was about two months from production and will use the KATO SD45 mech.

[AntonioFP45]

QUOTE: Originally posted by emdgp92

Something to consider: The Santa Fe also had a few ex-Amtrak SDP40F's as well. These look similar to the FP45 and F45...but have a front platform and other modifications. I think these were painted in the blue warbonnet scheme, and some might have even been repainted in the red scheme. I think they're being retired soon.

The Santa Fe SDP40fs have been retired. All were due to be scrapped and likely were except for one, which was purchased by a railfan. I don't know for certain, but it might have been the MAERSK unit that was in the baby blue. After being blamed for derailments on Amtrak, these units redeemed themselves on the Santa Fe pulling hot shot intermodals at 70+ mph, until relegated as trailing units after 1997 (when ditch lights became law).

[emdgp92]

Something to consider: The Santa Fe also had a few ex-Amtrak SDP40F's as well. These look similar to the FP45 and F45...but have a front platform and other modifications. I think these were painted in the blue warbonnet scheme, and some might have even been repainted in the red scheme. I think they're being retired soon.

[Anonymous]

QUOTE: Originally posted by Don Gibson

IM CONFUSED:

until 1952 all Santa Fe non passenger diesels were all delivered in Black with Silver stripes or F-3/F-7's in the Blue and cream colors to match wartime 40's FT's . In 1952 the 'cream' yellow was replaced with the gold yellow used by the passenger engine's.. 'Pinstripe' now seems to be the hobby manufacturer's name, officially it was the '1952 paint scheme', but was known as around the 'Atchison' as 'Yellow noses'.

The 'FP-45' was Santa Fe's special cab enclosed version of EMD's SD-45P to replace aging F-3/F-7 passenger equipment., and was delivered in Santa Fe's red 'War bonnet theme. They were affectioniately dubbed 'Red noses by the engine men.

Santa Fe also ordered some similarly cowled SD-45's - without the steam generator - and dubbed them 'F-45's These were delivered in the (soon to be) 1952 scheme. To my knowlege they never wore any other color's until the 1972 'Yellow War bonnet 'scheme was adopted.

Don,

The F45s were delivered in either 1967 or 1968 (the SD45 came out in 1966). At this time ATSF had stopped using the Black and Silver Zebra stripe paintscheme and all freight diesels were delivered in Blue with Yellow details or the Yellow and Blue warbonnet. To my knowledge, no F45s (or any Santa Fe cowls, for that matter) were ever in the Zebra stripe scheme.

[ProtoWeathering]

I stand corrected BigBoy. The 5900-5939 (ex 1900-1939) F45's were delivered in the BYT2 paint scheme. (Blue with Yellow trim 1960-72)

[Don Gibson]

IM CONFUSED:

until 1952 all Santa Fe non passenger diesels were all delivered in Black with Silver stripes or F-3/F-7's in the Blue and cream colors to match wartime 40's FT's . In 1952 the 'cream' yellow was replaced with the gold yellow used by the passenger engine's.. 'Pinstripe' now seems to be the hobby manufacturer's name, officially it was the '1952 paint scheme', but was known as around the 'Atchison' as 'Yellow noses'.

The 'FP-45' was Santa Fe's special cab enclosed version of EMD's SD-45P to replace aging F-3/F-7 passenger equipment., and was delivered in Santa Fe's red 'War bonnet theme. They were affectioniately dubbed 'Red noses by the engine men.

Santa Fe also ordered some similarly cowled SD-45's - without the steam generator - and dubbed them 'F-45's These were delivered in the (soon to be) 1952 scheme. To my knowlege they never wore any other color's until the 1972 'Yellow War bonnet 'scheme was adopted.

[Anonymous]

F45s (SDF45s) were never in the Red and Silver Warbonet. They were delivered in the Blue with Yellow details scheme and then were in the Blue & Yellow Warbonnet for the rest oftheir careers. The FP45s (later rebuild as SDFP45s) were delivered in the Warbonnet, then were in Blue and Yellow, and in 1989 got the Superfleet scheme. They renumbered from the 5990 series to the 100 series but had to be renumbered back to the 5990s and then the 90s to make room for the 100 class GP60Ms. More info can be found here: http://atsf.railfan.net/cowls/

[Anonymous]

QUOTE: Originally posted by Student of Big Sky Blue

QUOTE: Originally posted by Railroading_Brit

While we're talking FP45s, can anyone say if it they have the same distance between truck centres (or even better, the same trucks) as the SD45? The reason I ask is I have a pair of unpowered N-scale FP45s that were given away with a magazine a year or so ago (they're good mouldings, painted in Amtrak colours), and would quite like to motorise them, as nobody offers N scale FP45s at the moment. Bachmann SD45 mechanisms appear on ebay UK fairly regularly and would be fairly simple to fit into the models assuming the trucks, etc are right? Thanks for any help/advice!

If the models are a straight F-45. Then an SD45 mechanism is what you need. But if they are an FP45 with the steam generating equipment, I would suggest you find an Atlas SD 50/60 Mechanism and add SD45 side frames. THe FP45 is Longer than the F 45 and That extra Frame length is needed for the FP45. I have seen people strip and repaint and redetail old AHM FP-45s and mount them on Proto-2000 SD60 drives. I am sure the same can be done in N-scale. I have a couple SD60s that I am going to heavily cobble and kitbash into SDP45s. Basicly a non-Cowel FP-45

Thanks for the help - I'm not sure whether they are FP45s or F45s though - I think the same magazine offered a SF Warbonnet F45 later on so they may have cut a corner and used the same tooling. I think I might have to look for a cheap Bachmann SD45 that I can either use as a chassis donor (if it turns out to be the right length) or detail and keep as an SD45 if it's too short. Thanks again to all who responded!

[ProtoWeathering]

I used the F45 as a generic term for all the different variatons of this lcomotive. I get all my ATSF roster info from. http://rosters.gcrossett.com/atsf/

The first units were FP45's then FP45u's, then SDPF45's etc, etc. Too many and too confusing to relist here.

If you know the unit #'s you can find all the variations and paint schemes here...

http://rosters.gcrossett.com/atsf/

The ex-Amtrk units were 5200 series, the original units were later numbered in the 5900 series.

Thanks to the "Q Station" for the information. http://www.qstation.org/

[Anonymous]

QUOTE: Originally posted by Railroading_Brit

While we're talking FP45s, can anyone say if it they have the same distance between truck centres (or even better, the same trucks) as the SD45? The reason I ask is I have a pair of unpowered N-scale FP45s that were given away with a magazine a year or so ago (they're good mouldings, painted in Amtrak colours), and would quite like to motorise them, as nobody offers N scale FP45s at the moment. Bachmann SD45 mechanisms appear on ebay UK fairly regularly and would be fairly simple to fit into the models assuming the trucks, etc are right? Thanks for any help/advice!

If the models are a straight F-45. Then an SD45 mechanism is what you need. But if they are an FP45 with the steam generating equipment, I would suggest you find an Atlas SD 50/60 Mechanism and add SD45 side frames. THe FP45 is Longer than the F 45 and That extra Frame length is needed for the FP45. I have seen people strip and repaint and redetail old AHM FP-45s and mount them on Proto-2000 SD60 drives. I am sure the same can be done in N-scale. I have a couple SD60s that I am going to heavily cobble and kitbash into SDP45s. Basicly a non-Cowel FP-45

[garr]

Neutrino,

Great modeling. Seeing those photos are making me want to get my work bench active again.

Were both the F45's and FP45's delivered in the red/silver scheme or just the FP's?

Thanks,
Jay

[ProtoWeathering]

Thanks for the nice complements Antonio.

I did that unit about 10 years ago and I'm not sure about the class lights. They weren't lit. Cannon fans were used along with a Kato drive. In my time I've probably done about 25 F45's and one FB45 as a fantasy. She sure looked sweet in an F45 A-B-A lash-up. I've stopped doing the detail work and engine building as my eyes aren't what they used to be, now I just slop on weathering powders and Dull-Cote.

[AntonioFP45]

Neutrino! SHE'S A BEAUTY!! Excellent job! Cool detailing.

Those class lights next to the number boards: What brand are they and do they function? Did you use the Details West fans or Cannon?

I plan on performing a similar job on my 5 remaining Santa Fe cowls. I "royally" screwed up the first one. Things were looking good and then I made the mistake of using "Liquid CA" to glue on "See Thru" metal radiator grills (Plano Products). That CA ran like water and ruined the shell (burned right through the masking tape). So, I'm going to try again, this time with a thicker CA.

Thanks, and a big thumbs up on your job.[4:-)][tup]

[ProtoWeathering]

Those trucks are correct.

[ProtoWeathering]

Antonio - I believe the question was about the pre 72 (actually pre 1960) Black and Silver stripes. All F45's were delivered in 1967-68 in the silver/red warbonnet [SRW paint] and then painted in the byt2 (Black with Yellow Trim) scheme in July 71 to May 72. The Black with Yellow trim scheme was used from 1960 to 72 on regular freight locomotives.

I've known an Athearn F45 or two in my day too.

[Anonymous]

While we're talking FP45s, can anyone say if it they have the same distance between truck centres (or even better, the same trucks) as the SD45? The reason I ask is I have a pair of unpowered N-scale FP45s that were given away with a magazine a year or so ago (they're good mouldings, painted in Amtrak colours), and would quite like to motorise them, as nobody offers N scale FP45s at the moment. Bachmann SD45 mechanisms appear on ebay UK fairly regularly and would be fairly simple to fit into the models assuming the trucks, etc are right? Thanks for any help/advice!

[AntonioFP45]

Neutrino, Athearn stopped producing the F45 and FP45 before the Horizon buyout.

BNSF97,

EBay is your best bet, but you have to check it daily. I've purchased four FP45s over the past year on it. Somedays there will only be 2 or 3 of these locomotives and then "wham!", ten of them suddenly come up for bidding! [:p] Some new, others in good condition. Undecorated units also pop up.

I'm not sure but correct me if I'm wrong:
It sounds like you're referring to the Dark Blue/ "Yellow Mask" paint scheme that came before the Dark Blue & Yellow War Bonnet version.

IMHO, that simplified blue scheme was sharp. [4:-)][tup] On the F45/FP45, the windshield area was yellow (hence, the "mask") and the dark blue carbody had two thick strips running along the sides, one above and one below the big yellow Santa Fe logos. From a distance, they do look like pinstripes.

Athearn dropped this version years back and contuned with the passenger and freight "Warbonnet" paint schemes.

Ironically I saw an Athearn FP45 on Ebay in the "mask version. Used but in good shape, but I didn't go for it. I have a total of six FP45s, and decided to repaint one in this version.

Keep checking Ebay as Blue Box SD45s, F45s and FP45s often show up for sale. Be careful and DON'T PAY TOO MUCH FOR ONE! [:0] I made that mistake once. Over the past year I've observed that most of these units have sold for between $30 and $50. I even saw one dummy F45 go for $12!

You may just have to buy these units in another version and repaint it yourself. Athearn Blue Box locomotives are a piece of cake to strip and repaint. Microscale has the Santa Fe decals for that version.

Hope this helps!

[Anonymous]

Athearn Made the Solid Blue No Warbonnet F-45. But I think that loco was dropped from the line of models Athearn Now sells, thanks to Horizon.

[ProtoWeathering]

Santa Fe F45's never were in black/silver pin-stripe.

Please see this link for all the incarnations of the locomotive.

To answer the question... No manufacturer has yet been dumb enought to do a zebra striped F45.

http://members.aol.com/JFuhrtrain/FP45data.htm

I took this picture back in 1990 at Corwith yard of the class unit after being renumbered from #90 and repainted into the Superfleets beautiful #100.

[Anonymous]

Does anybody know of any manufacturers that have any F45 ATSF's or any loco in pintripe/pre 72 blue yellow scheme? F45, SD45, any loco that was painted in the old scheme, does anybody make them? N scale and HO wonderiing? thnks, Ben