What exactly is the relationship between CSX, NS, and Conrail?

[Anonymous]

The track behind my shop is owned by CSX but I think only about half the locomotives that go past are theirs. Most of the other half is leasing company property, HCLX, FULX, etc. but I have seen lots of UP, several Indiana RR, and a few NS, BNSF, CN and one odd looking duck that I was to slow to identify. If work did not keep interfering it would be a great spot to watch trains.

[accord1959]

All roads charge for the use of each others power, you just see more mixed consists today because different roads have the ability to track their power and charge for it. Different roads do not use other roads power without permission and in most cases it is in the design of a particular run that certain units from different roads stay with a consist as it moves across the country.

[stokesda]

I can't remember exactly where (maybe Seattle?), but I've seen at least one train out west with BNSF and CSX locos on it. So, railroads do use each other's locos from time to time (with permission, I'm sure!). When a lucky railfan finds this situation, it's like spotting a rare bird in the jungle [:)]

[Anonymous]

I live close to Binghamton NY i see NS trains and CSXT and to add another railroad in the mix i see CSXT on the point of NYS&W trains all the time.
NYS&W have some alcos on there loco roster [:D] so there grate to see rolling down the line


and then we have the CP and there D&H line on that line we see CP,NS and CN a few weeks ago i saw to UP units heading a train on that line

[Anonymous]

Several years ago out in the Nebraska Panhandle we used to see ATSF power on BN trains regularly. One railroad will use the other railroads locos and then pay back an equal number of "horsepower hours" (remember now, an SD40-2 is a big electric generator driven by a diesel power plant. So it generates "horsepower hours" instead of "kilowatt hours" which is what your electric meter at your house keeps track of.). We see CSX power on Union Pacific trains quite often here in Kansas City. Earlier this week a train was waiting for a green board just South of the Noland Road grade crosssing in Independence with a big CSX General Electric unit on the point. Apparently CSX owed UP some horsepower hours.

[Tracklayer]

I'm down here in south east Texas near Houston, and I see both CSX and Conrail engines mixed in with Union Pacific engines all the time. Once in a while, they'll also have a Norfolk & Southern in the mix. It seems that they're all just part of the national engine pool now...

Tracklayer

[Adelie]

QUOTE: Originally posted by BXCARMIKE

I'm not sure of that as I saw three different trains on NS tracks with only CSX power

Where was that? Railroads do grant trackage rights to other railroads on both a long-term and short-term basis. Might be more common right now with all the high water in various places.

[Anonymous]

Yes, Conrail is still alive here is there web site take a look.

http://www.conrail.com/

This is from there web site.

In the spring of 1997, Norfolk Southern Corporation and CSX Corporation agreed to acquire Conrail through a joint stock purchase. The Surface Transportation Board officially approved the acquisition and restructuring of Conrail on July 23, 1998. The the approved merger plan restructured Conrail into a switching and terminal railroad that operates as an agent for its owners, Norfolk Southern and CSX, in the Shared Assets Areas of Northern New Jersey, Southern New Jersey/Philadelphia, and Detroit.

[Anonymous]

I'm not sure of that as I saw three different trains on NS tracks with only CSX power

[Adelie]

I think it is more of a corporate identity issue. No railroad really wants anyone to see one of their trains being led by a competitor's locomotive. Sort of the "Alpha Dog" thing.

It is not beyond the realm of possibility, however, that there is some sort of regulation mandating that the train operator be clearly identifiable from the front of the train.

[Leon Silverman]

Adelie mentioned a CSX train headed up by a CSX engine followed by two CN locomotives. Are there union rules or locol railroad signaling/communication systems that would require that a runthrough train be headed up by a host railroad locomotive, or, is there a standardized control/communication system that would allow any locomotive to head up any train anywhere in North America (including Mexico)?

[Anonymous]

To begin with I'm not 100% sure that what I say is accurate but I'll say what I know about this topic.
April 1, 1976 ConRail's activation day. Conrail is created out of the ruins of these 6 bankrupt railroads: Central Railroad of New Jersey, Erie Lackawanna, Lehigh & Hudson River, Lehigh Valley, Penn Central, and Reading Railroads.
Conrail began a financial turnaround in 1981 and started to show profits.
Sometime around 1985-1987 the U.S. Government sold its (I think 85%) stock ownership to private individuals. Conrail basically became a for-profit company for the general public.
Norfolk Southern wanted the Gov. to sell it's stock to NS but the Senate decided to sell their share to the public. This kept ConRail independent for a while.
In 1994,1995, and early 1996 NS secretly approached Conrail with an offer to buy them. Conrail kindly refused.
October 15, 1996 Conrail and CSX Transportation announce a Corporate merger that will combine the Conrail and CSXT Rail Systems.
October 23, 1996 Norfolk Southern begins fighting back with lawsuits and it's own offer to buy Conrail.
Nov. 1996-April 1997 NS, CSX, and Conrail basically fight amongst themselves.
Sometime in early 1997 NS CEO David Goode and CSX CEO John Snow secretly agree to split Conrail.
1997 Conrail is to be split between Norfolk Southern and CSX Transportation.
Norfolk Southern will obtain 58% of Conrail's stock and CSXT will obtain 42%. However, NS and CSX will have 50/50 Control of decisions affecting Conrail.
August 22, 1998 Conrail is financially split between NS 58% and CSXT 42%. However, Conrail still continues to operate as a separate company under ownership of CSXT and NS.
Over 1998 and first two quarters of 1999 CSX and NS improve their systems to be compatible with Conrail. They plan for the takeover of Conrail's operations.
June 1, 1999 DAY ONE, Conrail is finally split between NS 58% and CSXT 42%
Several problems occur at the beginning, but eventually NS does a lot better, CSXT improves but still has several problems that are still being worked out.
Conrail today is a Company that is owned by it's parent Companys CSXT and NS. Conrail does switching operations in I think 3 major yards. Conrail does not own any locomotives any more. I think the report mark for the Conrail Shared Assets for the few cars they do own is SAA.
NYC Reporting Marks generally represent CSX ownership and PRR represents NS ownership.

[Adelie]

And to think, my 4x8 layout of old predicted the BNSF merger 30 years before it happened.[:o)][:o)]

[keystonecrossings]

Conrail does still exist. They operate around Philadelphia and, I think, Detroit. As someone alluded to, perhaps they are just doing terminal switching. It's pretty small, in any case. HQ is still in Philadelphia.

[Anonymous]

Ok here is what I have been able to come up with after doing a little research.

Conrail as a corporation still exists. It is owned 54% by Norfolk Southern and 46% by CSX. In places where NS or CSX could not evenly split the earea up, Like Enola Yard, Cincinati (Or was it cleaveland?) and Some areas in New Jersey. Conrail is responsible for switching them with the revenues generated split between the two owners according to their stake in the company.Norfolk Southern and CSX have created holding companies for their Conrail assets and the holding companies reporting marks have started to be applied to locomotives and rollingstock. Norfolk Southern has created Pennsylvania Lines LLC and CSX has formed New York Central Lines LLC. Keep an eye out for former Conrail Rolling stock bearing these classic old reporting marks.

I don't know if I have been able to clear anything up or just made things more confusing.
But I try.

James.

[Big_Boy_4005]

NS and CSX don't have tracks within 350 miles of where I live, but I see their engines all the time. More and more, the railroads have stopped caring what paint is on the engines they use. If it runs, it's fair game.

I think a lot of locomotives are straying from their home roads due cooperative runs that carry entire trains through road boundaries. Rather than stopping to switch power, they just switch crews and keep going.

Mark, I know one of the sources of those UP engines you are seeing. UP and NS have teamed up to bring Triple Crown service to the Twin Cities. I think they are still only running 4 trains per week each way, but the trains are starting to get maxed out in terms of lenght after a little over a year of service. A fifth train may be the next step.

[waltersrails]

[#ditto][#wstupid]

[icmr]

[#wstupid] The Merger. Duh



ICMR

Happy Railroading.[swg][swg]

[Adelie]

The concept of "borrowing" power from another railroad and returning the "favor" later makes a lot of sense.

So that means that those wierd consists we all came up with when we were 10 years old with the Santa Fe F7 leading the Burlington GP35 were really just ahead of their time. Makes me feel "visionary."

[bbrant]

QUOTE: Originally posted by bcauldwell

Ok so that much I kinda get, but here in NJ you can see a CSX loco sitting next to a NS loco, or have a CSX and a NS loco in the same consist. I don't get it...

I think Jeff hit the nail on the head when he mentioned pooled power. I have a view of a CSX and NS line going through Pittsburgh's south side. It's common to see either road running pooled (a.k.a. foreign) power from other lines including CSX units on an NS freight and vice-versa.

Brian

[Adelie]

I see quite a bit of that sort of thing these days (My office is across the street from a set of elevated CSX tracks). There is no real relationship between CSX and NS, other than whatever business relationship there is on the locomotive in question. The "inner breeding" you see could just as easily be with a UP locomotive (seen that across the street, too).

I'm assuming the odd locomotive is being rented for some short period by the "home" railroad, to be returned at a predetermined date. Sort of makes for some interesting consists. There was a day a few months back where I had a CSX train pass by with the CSX loco on the point, as is probably always the case in these arrangements, and two Canadian National SD's following.

[jeffshultz]

Welcome to motive power pooling... as I understand it, locomotives running on "foreign" roads earn horsepower hours on those roads.

Which is paid back by letting the home road use one of the foreign road's engines....

[SpaceMouse]

QUOTE: Originally posted by bcauldwell

Ok so that much I kinda get, but here in NJ you can see a CSX loco sitting next to a NS loco, or have a CSX and a NS loco in the same consist. I don't get it...

I saw the same thing in Chigaco this last weekend. With some CN thrown in.

[Anonymous]

Ok so that much I kinda get, but here in NJ you can see a CSX loco sitting next to a NS loco, or have a CSX and a NS loco in the same consist. I don't get it...

[SpaceMouse]

I herd that Conrail had switching contrats, like in Pittsburg's Conway yard.

[Big_Boy_4005]

I'm not sure of the exact percentages, it wasn't 50-50, but NS and CSX each took a chunk of Conrail. The division was made so that in most areas competetion was preserved.

[cacole]

Conrail no longer exists -- it was split up between CSX and NS several years ago. Conrail was formed when the government stepped in to bail out a couple of bankrupt railroads, primarily the Penn Central, which had been created through a merger of the Pennsylvania and New York Central.

When the government decided to get out of the railroad business, Conrail was sold to CSX and NS, and perhaps a couple of other smaller roads.

[Anonymous]

What exactly is the relationship between CSX, NS, and Conrail?