Please provide some layout advice

[Anonymous]

Bcauldwell,

I highly, highly, highly recommend you get ahold of copies of Model Railroader - issues Dec 1990 - March 1991.

In them, Bob Smaus built a module (it was HO, but that's no big deal) that was VERY SMALL - 6ft x 2.5ft. The trains didn't have anywhere to go at the end of the module (sort of like my diagrams above), but man, did he ever capture the feel of an intermodal facility!

He did it in part by having an image of a huge container ship on the backdrop.

Very impressive stuff - 12ft long in N scale, you could have an intermodal facility for sure, or at least a killer representation of one (like Bob Smaus had).

Yours would be twice as long, same width, half the scale size - you could get 4 times as much in there as he did (referring also to scenery, not just more track, etc.).

Check it out - seriously.

[Anonymous]

I would like an intermodal facility as I am facinated by them and pass quite a few on my way to work everyday. I want to order the intermodal book, got the realistic op book last weekend quickly read through it, got freight yards yesterday and read half way through it already, execelent recomendations!

I plan on running DCC, probally with 1-3 operators. Not sure how I'm going to do the actually operations though, I have to think about that.

The only thing stopping me from doing what I want, is getting to the hidden areas behind the backdrop. If I could figure that out, it would be golden!

[Anonymous]

bcauldwell

Do you plan to have a facility for the intermodal? Like a crane or a piggypacker type forklift? You will want to make allowance for that. I bought a Kalmbach book called Intermodal Equipment and Operations that was a great book, it actually has 2 how to's on building a intermodal yard, the other books I found useful are Track Planning for Realistic Operations, Freight Yards all from Kalmbach. Those seem to fall in close to what you are designing. I like your idea of a mainline and intermodal idea. Also when designing, I would think about how you plan to run the layout, if you want others you will want to plan in the capability for more then 1 operator, I didn't as I use DC and it's a dual MRC throttle, not freindly for 2 people. Also if you are going to use car cards or a car forwarding or switch list to make operations a little more interesting. I am using a car card system, and find it makes it more interesting, in fact I feel lost when don't use the cards.

[Anonymous]

Dthurman, your advice is great. I think I'm just trying to set too many goals for the space I've provided for my layout. I'm gonna get back to the drawing board, but won't give up on my dream layout.

[Anonymous]

I hope I didn't make you change your idea [*^_^*], I just think you should lookout for things that may distract from the fun. Use up a lot of paper or computer bits and design out a few different plans that seem close to what you are after. I must have had 10 plans, all variations but finally found one I was happy with.

[Anonymous]

So now I'm having second thoughts about the hidden loop and staging. Anyone have a solution?

[Anonymous]

QUOTE: Originally posted by bcauldwell

CARRfan, it's good to see someone else is thinking along the same lines as me. What I plan to do is to have the area hidden behind the staging lower than the rest of my layout, with the benchwork being L girder. Even with this in mind I still have the same worries about derailment. The answer I think is to make the hidden track as reliable as possible. I might also consider a modular and removable backdrop, or access from underneath.

Can you design the layout with the hidden track more or less hidden behind a hill? Reachins or ducking under are tough, when running a train and you can't see it, you tend to get concerned, making your "fun time" a little less fun. Joe Fugate has some decent layout tips. Also I didn't notice, is your staging open or hidden?

Oops! I just re-read your post, and I see you are using the backdrop to hide the return. I was going to do the same thing, but wanted to be able to see my trains. Also if the return is behind the backdrop, that will be a little tough to reach. Is this to be against a wall? My layout is 12 foot long also, with a 7' extension. Moving it to get to the back is "not a good thing®" so you may want to consider this also.

[Anonymous]

Bcauldwell

Just to give you an idea about your radius design I thought I would post my design, as you can see the left side is roughly 40" deep and has about an 20" radius on the outside and 16" on the inside, the right leg lower is 30" deep and the inner radius is about 13" which works but I have to run a "slow order" for derailment issues. So if you can get some better depth, with a ballon as you mentioned I would say go for it. The most important thing when you get building is to have "perfect" track laid down the first time and not have to go back and fix, file or fudge, I know from my current layout, which I am happy with but knowing now, and boy do I wish I would have let everyone here beat me up [;)].

[Anonymous]

CARRfan, it's good to see someone else is thinking along the same lines as me. What I plan to do is to have the area hidden behind the staging lower than the rest of my layout, with the benchwork being L girder. Even with this in mind I still have the same worries about derailment. The answer I think is to make the hidden track as reliable as possible. I might also consider a modular and removable backdrop, or access from underneath.

[Anonymous]

bcauldwell,

I've been in the process of designing a similar layout - it's basically a module with a loop attached.

I've been running into the exact situation you're talking about: A yard vs. sidings.

I'm thinking about changing the type of track plan I have shown below (HO scale on 2.5 x 8ft) to more of a yard-looking design (HO scale on 2.5 x 12ft - no pictures shown of this yet).

Industrial sidings do take up a lot of space.

So I was contemplating exactly what you are: Maybe I could get my switching satisfaction out of "sorting" cars in the yard instead of switching sidings.

For switching sidings, they'd have to be very small trains: just a couple cars.

Meanwhile, I got sidetracked by the idea of becoming one of those prototype modeling type freaks, which may be a road I'm headed down. This is also making me question the small sidings. Arggghhhh!

Incedentally, I've been thinking about having the loop go behind the layout vs. in front, and I'm concerned that if I go behind and have a derailment, it could be a big hassle to get everything back on the track.

[Tracklayer]

When I sat down several years ago to plan the layout I have now, I tried to use every inch of the surface that wouldn't have track on it with something that would compliment it scenery wise, but also that wouldn't make it appear to be cluttered. I also found out that you can't always "plan" everything, and that sometimes things just have a way of magically falling into place as you go along. That's part of the beauty of this hobby...

Tracklayer

[Anonymous]

Unfortunatly I do not have a sample design for the track as it's still just a glimmer in my eye, but in it's most basic form it would be a 12'x2.5' loop, with one half of the loop hidden behind a backdrop with the hidden staging. Add a large freight yard towards the center, a couple of industrial spurs and possibly a small intermodal facility and there you have it. I'm on vacation next week, maybe I can put it in photoshop or something for you guys to look at.

[Anonymous]

I think Darrell makes a good point on the radius issue, especially with double track, though in N scale you should be okay, wider radius the better. I have a 30" extension on my layout and the inner track is tight and doesn't look prototypical, fortunetly it's hidden by a hill. The 86' TTX cars will have a hard time tracking properly, the MicroTrain 86' cars are infamous for derailing on tight curves, also running long trains will have a tendancy to pull inward (can't remember the correct term) and also derail.

While I can see (I think I understand your operations idea) you still may want to rethink not having some industrial switching, this can add to the operations nightmare for your dispatcher when issueing track warrants. Though BNSf and others are pulling away from doing small car jobs and prefer the point to point runs.

Do you have a sample or starting design of the actual track?

[Anonymous]

Darrell, excelent advice. Maybe I will fit in a small amount of simple siding as you suggested. You bring up an interesting point about the radius, perhaps I will baloon out the ends of the layout for a larger radius curve.

[dgwinup]

I see your 'givens and druthers' are similar to mine (except for the intermodal facility). I model transition era, and intermodal was not what it is today.

From my experience, I think you will want to have industrial sidings. I think that after some time, you will want more than continuous running while you fiddle the yards. Eventually, you may start looking into simulating real railroad operations and will want those sidings. My advise is to plan for some sidings, even if you don't put them in at the beginning. They can always be added later if you have left room for them. And you don't need a lot of sidings, either. Just a few where a local can work around the mainline priority trains.

Another thing that concerned me is your 30" width limitation. That limits you to (realistically) 14" radius curves. You will NOT like the looks of intermodal equipment on curves that sharp. Can you bump out parts of the layout to 36" to 40"? That will give you a wider radius and long equipment will not only look better but also operate better. Just a thought.

Darrell, sharply quiet...for now

[SpaceMouse]

It can certainly work. Tony Koester Realistic Operations, had a similar layout by Andy Sperandeo. You might want to take a look.

[Anonymous]

So I've finally decided upon a size for my layout, and I've kept it fairly conservative in order to prevent being overwelmed. I'm going with a 12'x30" shelf layout in N scale. With that decided let's look at my goals.

1) - Continuous operation
2) - Hidden staging
3) - Working freight yard
4) - Possible small Intermodal facility

Here is where I need some advice. The more I read up and learn about operations, the more I begin to think that my small layout could potentially exist without real estate costly industrial spurs. I can have freight traffic coming from and going in two different directions to staging, and have all the operations consist of yard switching and still have the enjoyment of sitting back and watching continuous operations. My yard can be larger and more realistic, and not have to worry about adding half a dozen or more industrial spurs.

So my plan is to have a 12'x30" shelf layout. The staging and the other half of the continuous loop will be hidden behind the backdrop. The main line will be double track leading to and from a large freight yard, and a smaller intermodal facility.

Any suggestions comments etc, are welcome.

Thanks in advance...