Thinking about Model RRing

[Anonymous]

Hello Ed,
Yes, I would like to have the sketch of the layout
including the hole location(s) for the proposed
switch machines. I went to the local Borders bookstore yesterday looking for books on the RR hobby and what to my surprise, there were hardly any available. I was hoping that they had some as I have to $50.00 Gift certs. that I would have used for any purchases. I guess that I am going to
have to buy them from the hobby shop. We are experiencing a minor "heat wave" her in Flint, Mi.
It almost up to the freezing mark. We had approx.
4-5 more inches of snow dumped on us Tuesday. I am hoping that the roads stay clear as I plan to attend a train show in Saline, Mi. on Sat or Sun.
Am looking forward to it. Here is a couple of quickies for you. What are fiddle yards, what are
hump yards, as to power packs, what do you look for to ensure that you have enough power, etc.
Thanks,

Alfred W. Nickens
g4214 Beecher Rd,
Flint, Mi. 48532

[Anonymous]

No problem on the delay, I get caught up in the real world from time to time myself.

As for the cut in the plywood base . . .
I wanted it in the middle so I could divide the halves and store it easier. The zig-zag cut allows the pieces to be reassembled with one side 9'-4" long and the other side 6'-8" long. Both these edges are still 4'-0" apart so you still have to use 18" rad. curves. The cut was made with a sabre saw for only short bits. The balance was cut with a circular saw. I used 3/4 inch plywood and painted it all brown. Then I marked the track centerlines with a piece of school chalk (you could use a light color crayon if you have one handy). I laid cork roadbed on the top and then drilled a few holes for under table switch machines. I have had to put the project on hold because I am getting the house together to sell. I have it wired for blocks and have run trains but no switch machines have been mounted yet. If you still don't have a picture of how the plywood is cut, just send me an e-mail with your postal address. I will send you a sketch of the plywood with the cut line marked on it. Happy railroading. - Ed

[Anonymous]

ED,
I installed the RTS software and used it to checkout the layout that you sent to me. Your layout was really cool. I like it a lot. I really
like the "YARD" aspect of the layout. I am making
the following assumptions:
1. The little black squares on the layout represent where track is joined together.

2. The cutting of the plywood was length-wise as
opposed to width-wise.

3. The cut was made by a sabre saw


Questions are:
1. Why a zig zag cut?
2. Why in the middle, wouldn't a piece of wood(plywood) joined at either length-wide side
worked just as well?
3. Since you knew in advance that you were going
to modify the plywood, why did you stay with the
18" radii that would restrict you to 4 axle locos
for better operations.
4. I will be taking your advice and buy a couple
of the publications that you mentioned. I have been purchasing the Model RR magazine for the Hobby Shop nearby.
5. Sorry that I took so long posting this reply.
I have been doing some work on a family tree.

ponyboy

[Anonymous]

Hell Ed,
Thanks again for the reply. Yes, I would very much
like a copy of the 4x8 track plan that you made for your son. And I will also download the software that you spoke of. Wow, 11X11 huh. That must have been something to see. Hope that you and your family can find a suitable place to have that guy on display again soon. You must be very proud to have done something like that. I wi***hat I had that kind of talent. I guess you being
a designer of bridges helped out a lot. Having a
great imagination and CAD-CAM skills are a great combo. I have been a copier and a modifier of things. Never have had the great vision and imagination of/for things. Having or not having those abilities separate the chaff from the wheat.
Did your layout represent any particular area or
RR Division or was it freelance? From the list of RR's I don't know what the SBD, ACL, SCL, RF&P are. Were they all part of the same RR family tree? Where do you live that has this large number of RR's?

Did/does your son's layout include a bill of materials? If so, that would be great.

Well, its time to shut this post down, the old eyes are getting a little tired.

Thanks again for all the help.

Al @ [e-mail]

[Anonymous]

Well enough. And who are you? - Ed

[Anonymous]

u can send me the 4 by 8 layout

[Anonymous]

Al,

My layout was designed to fit inside an 11 x 11 bedroom which had to be relinquished in favor of my son. It was a twice around with a reversing loop and a stub yard so it could be operated as a point to loop railroad. It was still in its infancy when it came down. I had built it on L-girder benchwork so it was an easy matter to unfasten the top sections (from two and one-half to six feet long each) and stack them in the attic. I am a diesel era modeler and I like unit trains of coal and stack trains for example. I have an F40PH and a set of Amtrak cars that behaves also like a unit train. I model the roads near my home like the NS, N&W, Sou, CSX, SBD, ACL, SCL and RF&P. I have about a dozen locos including a GP40 SBD, GP40 RF&P, GP38 NS, U30C CSX, GP18 N&W, GP9 NS, SW1 Sou, SW1500 RF&P, F40PH AMTK. We plan to move before my son begins school and I am hopeful the new house will have a substantial basement. Since I design bridges for a living, that is one of my modeling interests as well. If you find yourself in need of bridges for an HO scale layout, I recommend the Micro Engineering bridge kits.

I will see if I can dig up that track plan you mentioned. Incidently, you can go to the Atlas model railroad website and download a free copy of the RTS software that will permit you to design a layout using Atlas track components. If you do, I can send you a copy of the "4 x 8" trackplan I made for my son's first layout. It has space for five or six industries and the biggest yard I could cram into a 4 x 8. Another thing I like about the plan is that you can build it up in stages as you have the time and money to put into it. Many beginner discussions suggest you get to a point that you can run trains early to help keep your interest as you work on the layout. It is difficult to do if you can never take a break and just watch 'em roll sometimes.

Good Luck - Ed

[Anonymous]

Hi Gary,
Thanks for the heads-up on the clubs. I have
also discovered that there is a club nearer to where I currently live. It is in Durand, Mi. I plan to check them out. In the meantime, I am planning on attending a show in Saline, Mi. on
Feb. 15/16.

[Anonymous]

Hello, You might want to try the Gratiot Valley MR Club, i think it's in Warren Mi, They have annual shows, and flea markets, The Redford club in Inkster also has regular shows, these are a good place to look and get a feel of some model Railroads,

[Anonymous]

Hello Ed,
First let me thank you for all the info that
you supplied. It will give me some good things
to think about and take in account for my layout.
The layout that I am thinking about ia one that I
found on the Atlas site. It is the Minimum twice
around(HO15) and has an industrial motif. I chose it because I can run 2 trains at once, has some long mainline and has several spurs/sidings that I
can do some switching on. The main drawback from
what I have discovered is that it has 18" radii and I can only run 4 axle locos for operational
integerity. But heck, life has its ups and downs
too. I looked up all of the structures that you had recommended in the Walthers 2003 catalog that I had already purchased. I found all but one, it was the small manufacturing Building(Leviathan
Manufacturing) Perhaps if you get a little free
time, you could take a look at the layout on the
Atlas site and make further recommendations on
industries and their location on the layout. I like the idea of having coal represented in a coal
tipple or something but since all the available space is clustered in the middle, I didn't think
that it would be realistic in real life with the
structures that you mentioned. But I guess that
it would be a good fit on one of the sidings.

How big a layout did you have? was it modular so
that you could disassemble it easily? What era
did you represent and what RR and locos did/do you
have? Depending upon available resources, you could buy/build a storage shed "out back" and be
back in the RR game. If you live in a cold weather
area, you could only run in good weather. Unless
you put in a heater of some sort.

Feel free to pass along any advice or info at any
time. My name is Al and I live in Flint Mi.
My email addess is [e-mail]

[Anonymous]

Hola Joese,
Thanks for the reply and info. Did you design your
layout or did you use an Atlas plan or other one?
Seems as if the 5meter x 3meter is sort of an oddball size, how did you come up with that? Since
you stated that you can only buy stuff whenever you travel, where do you live? Mexico perhps?
Having a name like Jose and using the word "hola"
made me thing Spanish or Portaguese. What made you
pick the 70's and what loco's do you run? What about your rolling stock? I checked out the MRR site but discovered that the article(s) can't be
viewed online, the issue of the mag has to be purchased. (Bummer) Thanks once again.

ponyboy

[Anonymous]

I am a NW modeler, though I choose to model in N-scale. I'm sure you've got the answers to your questions in amongst all the replies (I have not read any of them yet), but I thought I'd chip in my two cents. I didn't start out as a NW fan; I actually settled on it strictly because that's what my first N-scale loco was lettered for, and it was a gift. I went on to create a whole fictional railroad that was absorbed into the NW during the late 60's (when NW actually did merge four other railroads, both big and small ones).

I built a first layout, to a level of quality far below what I am now capable of, without doing any prototype research; I invented towns and geography and all. In later iterations of these same towns on later layouts, I have refined the original "WAGs" (wild-a$$ guesses) and along the way, I discovered some prototype situations that so closely resemble my fictional concepts, it was freaky.

I say, go ahead, have some creative fun, and let your knowledge of NW be a guide to whatever extent you wish it to be. At a minimum, it can help you choose what rolling stock to purchase (more eastern states than western, more NW than any else, etc.) At a maximum, researching the real deal can be its own little sub-hobby, and I assure you the NW is HIGHLY documented.

If you want to contact me:
[e-mail]

[Anonymous]

Ponyboy,

I would like to add my voice to the chorus welcoming you to the hobby. I am an HO modeler and have been hot-n-cold with it for over ten years. Right now I am in a cold phase because I have a new son and can't find the space for the layout. It is disassembled in the attic right now. So much for my problems . . .

You already have the answers to your first questions about GP and SD units and the various eras. Since you like the N&W and Sou I will point out that you probably want to model coal trains which means you want to look for engines with dynamic brakes. A dynamic brake is a set of resistors and fans that dissapate energy and slow down trains descending grades without wearing out the brake shoes on the trucks. There are so many things I would like to add but I don't have the patience to type all of it here.

As for the industries for your 4 x 8 . . .
I recommend the Cambria City Iron Works Boiler House by Con Cor as a coal user. I recommend the Walthers oil loading platform because it doesn't take up much space and justifies several tankers. If you get into backdrops, you could add a few large tanks painted on to add to the illusion of a major petrolium handler. I also recommend the Walthers Cornerstone Lakeside shipping because it resembles a typical freighthouse seen often in the south. It is also a fairly tall industry that would help create a view block on the layout. Items that block the view from one side of the layout to the other add to the illusion that your tracks connect to some place beyond your vision. I also have planned a two stall engine house (Walthers Cornerstone again) with service facilities from Stewart for my sons engines. There is an Atlas Lumber Retailer model that you may want to check out. The Walthers lumber facility is probably too big for a 4 x 8. Finally, I would get a small truck transfer building like the one from the Cambria City line (Con Cor) and the small manufacturing building sold by Walthers (I think it is called Leviathan Manufacturing and takes up about two square inches of layout space).

Contrary to many, I think a small layout takes a tremendous bit of planning because space is all the more precious.

I also agree that the Athearn blue box engine is a value and you should be happy but I want to add something else. Athearn engines have flywheels that help them run well as all good engines do these days, but it is also important to get a quality power pack. Model Rectifier Corp probably sells more than anyone else and for good reason. All of mine are from MRC. A quality power pack will run you as much and maybe a little more than an engine. Don't skimp on this item although you may be able to save money getting a used one.

My final advice, if you have the patience, get a few books on some subjects to help you learn what is possible with model railroading today. I recommend the following books as a minimum . . .
How to Operate Your Model Railroad by Bruce Chubb
Track Planning for Realistic Operation by John Armstrong
How to Wire your Layout(?) by Andy Sperandeo
Model Railroad Scenery by ? Dave F. (I think)
How to Build Model Railroad Benchwork by Linn Wescott
A subscription to one of the major model railroad magazines like MR.

Welcome aboard. - Ed

[RedLeader]

Hola Ponyboy:)

I model AT&SF and some BN on a 5mt.x3mt layout. I also used an Atlas plan for my layout. Later on, I've added two more mainline cicuits, to have more trains running (total of 4 or 5 doing some switch controling). I chose a close cicuit layout because I have two nephews (3 and 4 y/o) and they just love to see the trains running, crossing and passing each other. My era is the 70's and my scenery is freelanced.

About the era: There's an article in the June 2001 MRR Magazine (page 48 I think) where is a N scale diesel loco roundup. There is a table that describes the year of construction of each prototype. Perhaps it will help you somehow.

Happy Model Railroading!

[dknelson]

I am, alas, not the pro ballplayer Dave Nelson, nor the rock musician Dave Nelson.
If I was, just think of all the brass I could afford!
Dave

[Anonymous]

Hello ponyboy.
We're pretty familiar with Flint, been througn there, and stayed there a few times in the early 90's. My wife used to get a bunch of hairdressing supplies there, when she was in the business. We also went, of course,to Rider's.
The Saline show sounds good...I will be in a show Feb 15-16, in Barrie Ontario, about 60 miles East of here [ it's about 60 miles straight north of Toronto where the Barrie show is.] I build custom trestles & bridges in G,O,HO. Also sell miscellaneous HO,N and tinplate.There's a model railroading fellow in Tecumseh I'd like to put you in contact with, he's an old timer like us. If you email me at [e-mail], I will get you in touch.
regards / Mike

[Anonymous]

Hola Jose,
Thanks for the advice. I did buy a Walthers
catalog and have found it to be very useful.
I am leaning to HO scale and have almost decided
on a layout that I saw on the Atlas site. I am interested in having an industrial layout with N&W,NS, and Southern locos and Rolling stock. Which RR do you model and wht kind of layout do you have? My size is 4x8 max.

[RedLeader]

Hey Ponyboy!

I became a MRR a little more than a couple of years ago, an encoutered the same problems as you, and worst, in my country MRR dealers and products doesn't exist!!! I buy my stuff anytime I travel or any friend does. There is an important item you must consider first of all, the Scale. I chose HO beacouse of its size and it has the largest range of products in the market of every price and qualities. Since down here there isn't a single dealer, all of my shopping must be done through catalogs and specialy the Wlathers reference book, which I strongly recomend to buy. In there is almost everything you could find for your hobby. Another great resource is the web. I've found real bargains in Ebay, where they have tons of stuff in good conditions and in really low prices. The site is easy to browse and some items have pics so you can see the product. I find it kind of risky buying seconds, but sometimes you find something good. This is a great hobby, I'm sure you will be hook to it for a long, long time.

Happy Model Railroading!!

[Anonymous]

Dave,
Thanks for the heads-up on the Guide. I will
look for it at the Hobby Shop or one of the
book stores in town. A long time ago the Baltimore
Orioles had a Dave Nelson playing for them. You wouldn't be he by any chance?

[dknelson]

I advise buying or borrowing the Diesel Spotter's Guide to learn the eras for different models
A VERY rough guide
GP 7 GP9 GP 18: early 1950s -- some still run
GP 20 to GP 40: early to mid 1960s -- again some still run
GP50 GP 60 1970s to early 1980s
Dave Nelson

[Anonymous]

Hi Dave,
Thanks a lot for the info. Now whenever I see
those models in a mag, I will at least know what
the deal is on them. A train show is coming up
the week of Feb. 15-16 in Saline, Mi. I plan on
attending it. Now I need to find out the different
train eras and the loco' that were available in each of them.

[Anonymous]

Hi Mike,
Thanks for the assist. I live in Flint, Mi.
We are now riding a heat wave, it is now about
32 deg. amid some wind. I read in one of the RR mags about another show in Saline, Mi. on the 15-16 of this month. I plan on going to it. You live a pretty good pull from me. I have been to Toronto
a couple of times back in the early 90's. I really had a very good experience. Spent a week in
Montreal back in the late 60's. A friend and I did
the route 66 thing after getting out of Uncle Sam's green Machine. We couldn't speak a lick of
French but we still had a good time. However, I also spent 4-5 months in France and picked up some
stuff. I.E. Phrases.

[dknelson]

To answer one of your questions ....
GP = General Purpose. The early GPs or "geeps" such as GP7 and GP9 had provisions for steam heat in the short end (also electric head end power) so they could be used in passenger service, both mainline and commuter.
They also of course are/were freight locomotives and could serve as switchers, which is how many of them ended up when their mainline days were over
SD = Special Duty. At least initially there was an SD equivalent for a GP, so EMD offered GP7s and SD7s, GP9s and SD9s.
For all practical purposes, however, now GP means four axle and SD means six axle.
I have no reason to think an Athearn blue box locomotive would not serve you quite nicely. They have been reliable runners for years for thousands of us. Some are noisier than others and as with most things, the more work you put into it the more you get out of it.
Dave Nelson

[Anonymous]

Hi Ponyboy;
Regardless of what was at the GATS, H0 is still the largest used scale by far.Where do you live ?
Perhaps we can get you in touch, via e-mail with other modelers and /or a club in your area where you can get some hands-on assistance & advice.
Railroad modelers are a friendly and co-operative bunch, from the young 'uns, right up through the old coots like me.
best regards / Mike [100 miles north west of Toronto ].

[Anonymous]

Thanks for the reply and info. I do scour the
daily and weekly papers for RR stuff, but so far I have not been sucessful. But hope springs eternal! Where/how do you get your used stuff?
Do you buy sight unseen? I like to see and touch
whenever I buy used.

[Anonymous]

Hi Mike,
Thanks for the reply and advice. Yes, I have
been reading thru several RR mags. Also went to
A GATS train show several weeks ago. No one had
HO layouts, seems N is the big thing. Before I buy
stuff, I like to read up on thinks a little and also ask other peoples opnions first. Then I am more prepared to ask decent questions and also may
know when the sales people are selling me a bill of goods! Since I am now retired, making informed decesions is really important since every penny counts. I was sort of disapointed in the show. I guess since it was my first great expectations are seldom met.

[Anonymous]

ponyboy;
I don't wi***o try and steer you in an inappropriate direction,as most of your questions come down to preferences and other personal determinates.
Is there a local hobby shop to you that is strong on trains, but also friendly and helpful ? Perhaps you could get info on local clubs in your area that encourage visitors,,,you might find one you'd like to join, where information available is extensive.Have you ever been to a trainshow that has local clubs exhibiting layouts ? These modellers are usually great at offering advice & help to beginners.
Have you read articles in the model press, or on this website ?
best regards / Mike

[Anonymous]

I will let others answer most of your questions. I do have a recommendation for those on a budget. You are better off to buy quality "used" engines rather than "okay to good" ones. You will discover some excellent deals out there as long as you are patient. Over 50% of what I buy is used. In fact, sometimes the person has painted and detailed the loco into my favourite RR line and I get a better deal than just a used engine, undetailed. Same with most other things, I have bought used turnouts, used track, used power packs, etc. This way you can stretch your limited budget.

[Anonymous]

Hello,
I am new at this model railroad thing. I have been
thinking about getting into it. Can any of you more
experienced modelers answer the following questions?
1. Where can I find info on the different train eras?
2. What were the different eras
3. What kind(type) of locos were running during these
eras.
I am thinking about the Norfolk & Western RR as I
saw a lot of it as a kid growing up in W.VA and Va.
4. I am planning to do diesels for the locos. What
does the SD and GP mean in front of the model type
of the locos?
5. I am planning to use a 4'& 8' layout that I saw on
the Atlas web site. It was the Minimum twice around
It has 18" radii and I understand that I would be
restricted to certain types of locos on this one.
I.E. 4 axle locos for better operations. How does one
determine how many axles a loco has? The descriptions
in mags and online dont's say as far as I can determine.
Comments/Recomendations?

6. I am on a limited budget since I am retired, I was
thinking about Athearn Blue Boxs Locos or the Genesis
models as my first hack at this hobby.
Comments/recomendations?

7. Since I don't plan on having an exact replica of
a section of track, an area, or a Division of the
N&W RR, I guess that I would be called a freelancer?
Exact detail is of no interest to me, close is OK.
On my proposed layout, I would be having an Industrial
type of layout. Therefore I am thinking about an Oil
Industry, Coal Industry, Mills, Lumber.
Comments/recomendations

8. Perhaps I could hear from any other
N&W, Southern, Norfolk Southern Modelers out there.

9. Any and all comments, sugguestions are welcome.