80 Ton 3 Trk Shay???

[scubaterry]

Sel
It was in Victoria. The first visit we made I was flown in four days ahead of the battle group to set up a ships party. We had a Sister ship in the Canadian Navy Stationed at the base in Victoria (I think or close by been a long time). I reported in with them and spent the next four days doing everything but preparing for a party. those guys like to drink. Even have a bar on their ship. Great place always got treated top notch by the Canadians. Bettter then in the states back then.
Terry

[selector]

Cool, Terry. Was that in Victoria (Esquimalt), or at Nanoose?

[scubaterry]

Selector - Just noticed you are from Vancouver, BC. Fortunate enough to spend some time there while in the US Navy. Our ship pulled in there three times in a two year period. Got treated better there than at home. Hoo Rah!
Terry

[scubaterry]

Selector - I will first try it out with the included 3/4 in speaker and if I don't seem to get what I want then I will go for what ever I can get away with. I am a firm believer in more is better when it comes to speakers. You can always turn the vol down. I put a 1 1/2 in oval spkr in my GP-9 and it sounds better than the qsi/GP-9 I bought. Of course the speaker cost fifteen bucks but well worth it. They use those cheap looking plastic cone speakers with the qsi/GP-9 install. I will certainly let the crowd know how it all turns out. I just ordered the sound module from Tony's should have everything by the middle of next week. $66.00 love these Soundtrax sales going on!
Terry

[selector]

Most people would want to mount the speaker face flu***o one of the four surfaces of the tender, so that limits the diameter to that of the largest face of the tender. However, is it at all feasible to mount the speaker tilted in both pitch and yaw so that a large one can fit inside? If the rest of the tender is sealed, behind the speaker, and a large diameter speaker can be fitted, perhaps it would be worth the effort. Or, mount two smaller speakers back-to-back. Two speakers in the B-side of my F2 A/B set really improved the quality of the sound coming from the cheap 100LC decoder. Maybe two speakers, if at all possible to install, will make a difference for you.

[scubaterry]

Thanks for the info. I actually did put a Cap in the DSX I just installed in my mike. It certainly helped. the problem is to get really good results you need to put in a cap of around 2200 uf which is quite large for this app. Soundtrax rec a 47uf which is what I put in. A big differance between that and my GP-9 I put sound in without the cap. Someday I may replace it with a little larger one as I have a little more room to deal with. Yes your advice is sound. I will iinstall the sound and play with it awhile before making any changes if any. Thanks for the info. I am looking forward to seeing/hearing the little guy run.
Terry

[Anonymous]

Sorry about the homework comment. As you can see I removed it because I read where you actually wanted HO, not On30. That was my misunderstang. Sorry. Yes, I am very partial to Shays. They outpull almost anything their size, and many things much larger.

QUOTE: Originally posted by scubaterry

On30Shay - actually I was quite sure it was HO when I bought it but after reading some of the posts it had me wondering. The confusion began when I mentioned On30 rolling stock and someone thought I had a Narrow gauge Shay apparently. I didn't figure homework was a must for this, the price was the cheapest I had seen todate and I could have always sent it back if it was not what I wanted. I tend to be an impluse buyer much to my wifes chagrin. And thanks for your input and your interest. With your ID I guess you like Shays yourself?
Terry

[Anonymous]

No. There is not room enough for a 1.5" oval speaker. Even an oval speaker that would fit would have to be only around 9/16 of an inch wide. It would be questionable at best as to whether any more sound would be produced. The speaker mounts in the coal bunker, not the tender. The coal bunker is substantially smaller than the tender. I have an HO Shay with the sound unit and am pleased with the sound volume. It is only a matter of adjusting all the other sounds to accomodate the rather low volume exhaust chuff. This is actually extremely prototypical. The Shays had a very quiet exhaust chuff compared to most other steamers. I wouldn't make plans to modify a thing until you have heard it the way it is designed. I don't believe you will be disappointed. Those who are, are not familiar with the prototype. One more thing. I noticed one replier noted the the sensitivety to dirty track. This can be easily over come. By probing the wiring harness and finding the power wire to the decoder, a small capacitor can be placed in the power wire. This will allow power to be stored in the capacitor for just those sort of circumstances, thereby eliminating any loss of power to the decoder. It's tedious work not recommended for a novice. It will work however, and produce good results. The capacitor will however have to be installed in the cab of the loco, because of space constraints. You can make it almosr invisible though by painting it flat black.

QUOTE: Originally posted by scubaterry

Cacole - anyway to put a larger maybe 1.5 in oval speaker in it?
Terry

[scubaterry]

On30Shay - actually I was quite sure it was HO when I bought it but after reading some of the posts it had me wondering. The confusion began when I mentioned On30 rolling stock and someone thought I had a Narrow gauge Shay apparently. I didn't figure homework was a must for this, the price was the cheapest I had seen todate and I could have always sent it back if it was not what I wanted. I tend to be an impluse buyer much to my wifes chagrin. And thanks for your input and your interest. With your ID I guess you like Shays yourself?
Terry

[Anonymous]

Bachmann makes On30. On3 is an entirely different animal.

QUOTE: Originally posted by cacole

Sorry to be the bearer of bad news, but the Bachmann product is On3, not HOn3. On3 runs on HO scale track, but is larger than HO scale because it is supposed to represent a narrow gauge Shay. It's 1:48 scale, which is O, but has HO-spaced wheels.

A member of our local HO scale club has one. They run excellently, but won't fit through an HO scale tunnel, clear any buildings with loading docks that have been placed according to an NMRA clearance gauge, or clear a passenger train platform that is placed according to the NMRA gauge, because they are too wide and too tall.

I just received a catalog from Micro-Mark that has the Shay priced at $128.95, and it is available from St. Aubin's Station, a G-scale dealer, for $119.89 -- and it is a 2-truck Shay, not 3-truck. Bachmann doesn't claim that it is an 80-Ton Shay, either. The St. Aubin's advertisement, which is data provided by Bachmann, doesn't even mention a tonnage rating for the On3 2-truck model.

If you go to Bachmann's web site at http://www.bachmanntrains.com you will find a picture and other data about it by clicking on Search, On3, Steam Locomotives. The Shay is on Page 3.
.

[Anonymous]

The Shay you have is an HO scale. No one makes a three truck 80 ton in On30.

QUOTE: Originally posted by scubaterry

I didn' want to hi-jack the other "80 3 Trk Shay - Problems" thread so i thought I would start my own. After reading the other post on Shay's I became interested and did some research using info from the thread. Now I have never even considered buying a Shay. Had no reason to. Well the more I researched it the more intriging it became. I started looking to purchase one. The cheapest I could find was for about 145 bucks. Yesterday as luck would have it I got a "Special" email from Micromark and found they had the 3 Trk Shay on sale for 114 bucks so I bought it.

Now I need to figure out what to do with it. I can make a logging or coal mini-layout connected along my main somewhere I am sure.

I found allot of Hon30 stuff for Bachman? WIll Hon30 (I hope I got that right) run on HO track? And what size would be approprite for a 1950's northeast Logging or coal mine as far as length of hoppers, log flatcars etc? Sorry if this is too generic, but I am not really sure what to ask.
Terry

[scubaterry]

Cacole - anyway to put a larger maybe 1.5 in oval speaker in it?
Terry

[cacole]

The Shay is so small that only the special SoundTraxx system will fit into it. It comes with a 3/4" speaker that doesn't produce very good volume, and dirty track or dirty wheels will cause it to sputter, too. Clean track and wheels are a must for good sound, but it does run as smooth as the proverbial Swiss watch.

If you've never had a Shay before, don't expect it to burn up the rails -- it is geared for a scale 11 MPH tops, just like the prototypes.

[scubaterry]

cacole
Yes it is in fact a Spectrum standard gauge. I emailed the tech guy at MicroMark this morning. Glad you mentioned sound. Before I bought the Shay I checked the Soundtrax website and saw they do have a 3 trk shay sound module. That is probably what you have installed. How well does the sound work. I have soundtrax in several of my diesels and every dirty spot seems to make the sound sputter briefly and sometimes reset? So what I do now is put in a regular deoder for the engine and a DSX for sound so at least the loco keeps moving along if the sound decides to burp.
Glad to hear I did good. I may feel obligated to accumulate several more of these bad boys. And thanks for your interest.
Terry

[cacole]

If your model is really the Spectrum 3-truck standard gauge Shay, you got a bargain. I have three of these engines with SoundTraxx sound systems in them and they are some of the smoothest running engines ever made.

I also have the Spectrum 1:20.3 G-scale 38-ton 2-Truck Shay, and it is so quiet, even with 2 motors, that you can't even hear it running.

All told, I have close to 20 Spectrum models of HO and G scale, and have been very pleased with all of them. But steam only -- I have known people who have had problems with Bachmann diesels.

[selector]

fwright, I hear you. I would love to have a smallish 2-8-2T, or even a 2-6-2T, but no one makes them for the mass market. I haven't even seen one in brass, although I am sure they exist.

I think the manufacturers are just providing what sells. Buyers prefer the heftier, more-mass-to-the-eye larger Shays, especially most older modelers whose eyesight is warning their managing brains that it might be time to step up a scale. The more you can lay your eyes on, the happier you are with your trains. The 20-tonners just don't have a market.

Sorry...for you and for me.

[scubaterry]

Darth
Tks wasn't sure how long it was. Currently my layout is around the roomish 13 X 9 with two yards so I will maybe just use it as a switcher until we move and I can make a dedicated side area for it.
Terry

[Darth Santa Fe]

QUOTE: Originally posted by scubaterry

It will take a bigger area now to really make this one look right.

Not really. Even though your Shay is 3-Truck, it's still only as big as a GP diesel. It should look fine on a 4' by 8' layout, if that's what you're going for.[:D]

[scubaterry]

fwright
Well I can certainly agree with you on one point...We like bigger the better. When i was shopping I went straight for the 3 trk not really considering the smaller 2trk. On top of that as I said in an earlier post I had no idea what I was doing. I knew very little if nothing about Shays. The low price is what I bought more than the Loco. (that's pathetic). After mulling over your post it would probably have been better if I had gotten one of the smaller ones. It will take a bigger area now to really make this one look right. But thats OK.. this whole situation has opened up a new area of MRR that I had not considered before. We will be moving out of the FLorida Keys in the next couple of months and heading back up to the Continent. My major consideration selecting and buying our new home will be based allot on a nice big RR room so maby I will have the room to justify the newest member of my Loco livery. Tks for your insight.
Terry

[fwright]

Excuse my slightly off-topic rant:

The problem I have had with the various (non-brass, brass prices being out of my league) Shay models in HO scale is that they all are models of very large prototypes (both the Roundhouse and Bachman, as well as the Atlas N fall into this category). The Rivarossi Heisler similarly is a model of a very large and modern prototype. The one exception I know of is/was the Keystone Shay kit (I am building one in HOn3) which has a 20 ton prototype. While I don't have Shay production figures, I would guess from various prototype books I have looked at that most Shays were in the 20-50 ton range, and well less than a third were of the 3 truck variety. Certainly very few of the smaller logging operations would use the modern, heavy geared lokies - both the intial and operating costs could not be justified. I guess we modelers are still suckers for the "bigger is better" myths, or these wouldn't sell as well as they do. Now I realize that because of the engineering mechanics, it's actually more expensive to produce a nice model of a small prototype in HO and smaller scales. And modelers/manufacturers still seem to pay/charge by the size of the prototype which means large prototypes are much more profitable - look at the number of articulateds hitting the market recently.

Please can we have some sanity and return some production to the smaller, more numerous prototypes so those of us without a basement for a large layout can have something that looks right on our smaller layouts with shorter trains (recognizing the price of the locomotive doesn't vary much with size)?

[scubaterry]

MicroMark confirms the one I bought is HO. Sorry for all of the confusion but it was a learning expierience for me. Can't wait to put it on my layout. Maybe I can use it as a yard switcher until it gets its own little Diarama. Tks for all the folks who put in some input.
Terry

[scubaterry]

I sent an email to Micromark asking and double checked the site. It says HO Standard Gauge for the one I bought. So I think I am ok. Just above, it has a On30 Shay and it says Narrow gauge. Whew! Thought I made a boo boo there for a time. I guess i should stick with what i know. Well hey I'm excited again. Doesn't take much to amuse me. Tks for everyones help.
Terry

[selector]

Phone and confirm, but if it says that it is HO, and not On30, then you have an HO coming to you. IF...it says.."runs on HO track..", then you might have problems.

[scubaterry]

Well let me ask you guys something? I am getting the funny feeling this Shay is not HO scale. It says it is standard HO scale. If it is not HO then I probably don't want it. I was pretty excited about this now I am not so sure. Confused as usual???
Terry

[tatans]

Sounds like a great deal--go for the logging setup, I found it gives a lot more leeway in equipment as almost anything was used in logging, new, used, old, steam, diesel, passenger cars and a lot was home made to fit the use of a particular logging operation, etc etc etc. Isn't it fun with the difference in scales? ? I went through the narrow guage scene using ordinary HO as narrow guage but all the buildings etc. have to be proportionately adjusted (larger) It's a great learning experience.

[scubaterry]

cacole - Actually the Shay I bought says it is standard HO gauge. I was asking about the other On30 because I saw lots of rolling stock for that size and was confused. If you go to the Micromark website you will find the 80 ton 3 trk shay listed for 114.00 HO scale. I think I confused the whole issue with the ? concerning Hon30 (which was wrong). So now I am really confused. I assumed when it said "standard HO gauge" it would be HO, is that a correct assumtion.
Terry

[cacole]

Sorry to be the bearer of bad news, but the Bachmann product is On3, not HOn3. On3 runs on HO scale track, but is larger than HO scale because it is supposed to represent a narrow gauge Shay. It's 1:48 scale, which is O, but has HO-spaced wheels.

A member of our local HO scale club has one. They run excellently, but won't fit through an HO scale tunnel, clear any buildings with loading docks that have been placed according to an NMRA clearance gauge, or clear a passenger train platform that is placed according to the NMRA gauge, because they are too wide and too tall.

I just received a catalog from Micro-Mark that has the Shay priced at $128.95, and it is available from St. Aubin's Station, a G-scale dealer, for $119.89 -- and it is a 2-truck Shay, not 3-truck. Bachmann doesn't claim that it is an 80-Ton Shay, either. The St. Aubin's advertisement, which is data provided by Bachmann, doesn't even mention a tonnage rating for the On3 2-truck model.

If you go to Bachmann's web site at http://www.bachmanntrains.com you will find a picture and other data about it by clicking on Search, On3, Steam Locomotives. The Shay is on Page 3.
.

[Leon Silverman]

The Bachman narrow gage trains that run on HO scale track is On30. This is built on the 48:1 scale rather than the 87:1 scale of HO. You would use O-scale structures with these trains.

[scubaterry]

I didn' want to hi-jack the other "80 3 Trk Shay - Problems" thread so i thought I would start my own. After reading the other post on Shay's I became interested and did some research using info from the thread. Now I have never even considered buying a Shay. Had no reason to. Well the more I researched it the more intriging it became. I started looking to purchase one. The cheapest I could find was for about 145 bucks. Yesterday as luck would have it I got a "Special" email from Micromark and found they had the 3 Trk Shay on sale for 114 bucks so I bought it.

Now I need to figure out what to do with it. I can make a logging or coal mini-layout connected along my main somewhere I am sure.

I found allot of Hon30 stuff for Bachman? WIll Hon30 (I hope I got that right) run on HO track? And what size would be approprite for a 1950's northeast Logging or coal mine as far as length of hoppers, log flatcars etc? Sorry if this is too generic, but I am not really sure what to ask.
Terry