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RTR athearn motors?

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RTR athearn motors?
Posted by wctransfer on Friday, August 26, 2005 1:13 PM
Ive bought two Athearn RTR's. 1 totally new model SD60 ( meaning it wasnt a old blue box one) and a BB based GP38-2. Does the SD60 have the new engine while the GP38-2 does not? And what runs well together with the newer engines by athearn? Thanks

Alec
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Posted by BRAKIE on Friday, August 26, 2005 3:25 PM
MY 2 SD50s and SD60s run very well together..My CF7s and my RTR GP38-2s
runs very well together I have not tried my older BB engines with any of my newer RTR units yet but,plan to..My Helm SD40-2s runs ok with my SD50/60s and GP38-2s

Larry

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Posted by wctransfer on Friday, August 26, 2005 4:11 PM
Can you runthe SD60 with say, a proto or kato?

Alec
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Posted by Anonymous on Friday, August 26, 2005 4:17 PM
I run my Athearn RTR SD50 by itself when running on DC. It's too quick to be MU'd with my P2Ks, Athearn Genesis's and Athearn BBs. The P2Ks and Athearn BB and Genesis all draw more power than the Athearn RTR's, plus they're geared lower.

And yes, the Athearn RTR motors are greatly improved over the BB mechanism (no more steel contact strips!).
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Posted by wctransfer on Friday, August 26, 2005 4:21 PM
ok thanks, i guess ill have to run the SD60 b itself.

Alec
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Posted by modelmaker51 on Friday, August 26, 2005 4:42 PM
The SD-60 was never available as BB. It's one of the former Railpower shells. The RTR locos have the same open-frame motor as the later BBs. Somewhere around '96-'98, Athearn changed to skew-wound armatures to improve the slow speed performance and improve efficiency, making them nearly equal in performance to Katos etc, albeit still noisy.

They did change the universals and wheels (to nickle silver from sintered iron) in the new RTR series, however I don't know if they changed the gearing in the trucks, but I kind of doubt they did as the RTR series is an updating of the BB drivetrain, not a redisign. Just put 'em both on the track and see how they compare.

You can run any locos together if they are within a 10 - 15% variation in speed without harming them. The faster loco should be in the lead to avoid bucking and derailments.


Edit: The above mentioed years '96-'98 should be '86-'88. Sorry.

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Posted by wctransfer on Friday, August 26, 2005 5:31 PM
Read what i said, i never said it was a BB kit, i did say the GP38-2 one was. About the speed thing, so say i have a slower kato and a fast athearn, and if i run them together the Kato gets worn down? Thanks for all the help.

Alec
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Posted by Anonymous on Friday, August 26, 2005 7:57 PM
If the Kato is slow enough that you can see the difference in speed when you run the the two locomotives uncoupled, then yes the Kato will wear out quickly from be pulled faster than it's motor is turning. The faster locomotive will also get worn down with the slow Kato holding it back.
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Posted by wctransfer on Friday, August 26, 2005 8:40 PM
Alright, i had an idea, but thanks for the input.

Alec
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Posted by Berk-fan284 on Saturday, August 27, 2005 6:42 AM
My Athearn AC4400 RTR is a perfect match for my Kato SD90/43Mac I haven't tried any of my other Katos+Athearns yet.
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Posted by wctransfer on Saturday, August 27, 2005 9:46 AM
yay, so there is hope to run them with kato's , great! Thanks for all the help!

Alec
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Posted by Nieuweboer on Saturday, August 27, 2005 12:40 PM
QUOTE: Originally posted by 4884bigboy

If the Kato is slow enough that you can see the difference in speed when you run the the two locomotives uncoupled, then yes the Kato will wear out quickly from be pulled faster than it's motor is turning. The faster locomotive will also get worn down with the slow Kato holding it back.
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Posted by Nieuweboer on Saturday, August 27, 2005 12:46 PM
QUOTE: Originally posted by 4884bigboy

If the Kato is slow enough that you can see the difference in speed when you run the the two locomotives uncoupled, then yes the Kato will wear out quickly from be pulled faster than it's motor is turning. The faster locomotive will also get worn down with the slow Kato holding it back.

I wonder is this really a serious problem. How many hours does a locomotive run during an average operating session considering that normally these locomotives are not the only ones running during the session. I think that a great many hours of running will pass before any extra wear on the motor or gears will be observed.
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Posted by Darth Santa Fe on Saturday, August 27, 2005 1:43 PM
Athearn RTR diesels use the same gold motor that's been in Athearn BB diesels for 25 years now. The only difference is they have a hex coupling on the shaft going to the motor and they have wires instead of plates.

QUOTE: Originally posted by modelmaker51

Somewhere around '96-'98, Athearn changed to skew-wound armatures to improve the slow speed performance and improve efficiency


Actually, Athearn started doing skewed armatures in the early 80's and not the late 90's. (I know the ones from the 80's have skewed armatures because I have a BB F7A from that time)

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Posted by BRAKIE on Saturday, August 27, 2005 3:51 PM
Guys,First not all Athearn locomotives use the same motors..Here is where a lot of new modelers and season modelers trips and falls.
Here is a list of the motors.

84030 MOTOR, 1/2” ARMATURE
(SWITCHERS & HUSTLER
84040 MOTOR, 5/8” ARMATURE
(LARGE LOCOMOTIVES)
84047 MOTOR, 5/8” W 3/4” FLYWHLS
84048 MOTOR, 1/2” W/FLYWHEELS
84049 MOTOR, 5/8” W 5/8” FLYWHEELS
84060 MOTOR, C44-9W HI PERF
84067 MOTOR, C44-9W HP W 3/4” FW

This list DOES NOT include the Genesis motor..

http://www.athearn.com/Product/Default.aspx?ProdID=ATHG63842

So one motor doesn't fit all.

Larry

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Posted by modelmaker51 on Saturday, August 27, 2005 4:33 PM
From wctransfer:
QUOTE: Read what i said, i never said it was a BB kit,


No need to get testy, I was only trying to clarify that it was originally derived from the Railpower shell. Sorry, I wasn't clear.

From darth sante fe:
QUOTE: QUOTE: Originally posted by modelmaker51

Somewhere around '96-'98, Athearn changed to skew-wound armatures to improve the slow speed performance and improve efficiency


Actually, Athearn started doing skewed armatures in the early 80's and not the late 90's. (I know the ones from the 80's have skewed armatures because I have a BB F7A from that time)


I misspoke, I meant: '86-'88. The F-7A may well have been a bit earlier.

To get back to the subject of mixing locos, in the past 20 years we (me and my pals) have run virtually any combination of locos (within the plus or minus 10-15% speed variation) with no long term ill effects.

As a matter of fact in that same 20 years, I have only experienced one motor burnout - period, and the was due to a manufacturing defect and the manufacturer promptly replaced it.

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