Newbie Q's & WWII Theme

[Anonymous]

Woops, sorry for the dupe! Didn't see Railroading_Brit response.

[Anonymous]

DRG = Deutsche Reichsbahn Gesellschaft
http://en.wikipedia.org/wiki/Deutsche_Reichsbahn_Gesellschaft

[:D]

[Anonymous]

The pre-war German railway company was known as the Deutsche Reichsbahn Gesellschaft - this ran from the grouping of the old regional Länderbahnen in 1924 until 1937, when they came under state control and were renamed simply Deutsche Reichsbahn. In 1949 the Deutsche Bundesbahn or DB (federal railways) was set up in the West, while in the East the rail system was still known as Deutsche Reichsbahn (DR). These two were state owned companies. After the reunification in 1990 it took another four years for the two systems to be unified, DB now standing for Deutsche Bahn AG, a private company again.

There's a good page on this that also explains the Epoch system on Wikipedia: http://en.wikipedia.org/wiki/History_of_rail_transport_in_Germany

[Anonymous]

A comment on German steam locos: Germany (and Europe as a whole) used steam longer than the US did, so quite a few of their steam models are post-war being models of modern railroads. If the model is marked as "DB" then it is post-war. DB stands for Deutsche Bundesbahn or German Feberal Railway which was created after the war, at least in West Germany, and is now the name of the railroad in united Germany. I think, but am not certain, that before the railroad was called something like Reichs Bahn.

[roadrat]

The German WW2 theme is definitely possible, Last November I attended a train show and one booth was having a MRR estate sale. I think this man had half the german army moving by rail , half-tracks,tanks,kubel wagons,aircraft, equipment and troops you name it he had it it was unbelievable.
It was in HO scale.

bill

[Anonymous]

Thanks so much everybody!!! This community is awesome! [tup]

I've done some research in the last days, bought 3 smaller books and visited the LHS. My LHS seems geared towards christmas tree trains and 50-100$ complete setup packages. So I have the feeling I may do most of my shopping online. They do, however, have the essentials. And they are pleasant folks.

I'm starting to feel bad for quizzing you all so much, but always when I have things nailed down I'm coming up with more questions. Here a re-cap where I'm at:

- N-scale (sorry you HO'ers! I have size constraints and I need to be mobile in the next few years).
- Kato Unitrack seems nice but I may take the plunge and lay my own track. I've starting looking at some layouts and I have a few ideas.
- Era II, German WWII theme.
- Loko & cars: Wdlgln005 has some specific suggestions, I can come up with something there. Sounds like this should be no problem.

i) Vehicles? I found two here:
http://www.discounttrainsonline.com/N-Scale-Vehicles-Boats-and-Planes-Roco/N_VEC_625_1.html
(walters has the same ones too) ... which is probably sufficient, but somewhat limited selection. Anybody find anything else? HO has nice Tiger tanks... and really slick AA.

j) Buildings? I found a few that would probably make an approximate fit. Bavarian stuff, really (I'm from the north, so really not down my alley, but hey -- I'll try not to be too picky;). It's looking a little grim military building wise, I'm thinking tents and barracks. I'm open for suggestions.

k) Figures? I found no N-scale German soldiers whatsoever. :( I hope I'm missing the obvious ... I even glanced at wargames but I'm not so sure if there is a good fit. I'm flexible though.

l) Planes? I found an awefully expensive one at walters:
http://www.walthers.com/exec/productinfo/326-19002
I was more thinking about something like the above tanks for 5-10$. Plus hopefully something more popular, like the Messerschmitt.

m) Here some links where I'm planning to do my shopping:
http://www.discounttrainsonline.com
http://www.nscaledivision.com/
and http://www.woodlandscenics.com/ is nice, but I don't think they have anything for my Era. http://www.walthers.com & http://www.reynaulds.com/ are fine too, but a tad bit expensive. Any other suggestions?

Note: Most of the above stuff I don't have the time and money to put in right away. But I want to make sure that I'm making descisions today that I won't regret later. For example: I think I'd make it myself vastly easier to just build a modern German railway. The ICE is slick. But yet, Germany WWII is just such an interesting time period. But if it looks like I'm setting my stakes too high I may back off and go modern.

I've had much better success finding in HO what I need. But I can't sacrifice the gains I have for N (in my situation, of course!).

cheers,
Philip

[JohnT14808]

I too, am interested in military trains as well. Currently I have an order in with an internet shop to see what some of the Roco and Model Trains offerings look like before I do a bigger order. I have been snooping around the local swap meets for 50' flat cars, ordered some 40 links/inch chain, have been fabricating some wheel and tread "chocks" for the loads I'm considering and in general doing research on how to put a military freight together. It is a slow process, but like any period or RR you decide to model, good research usually pays dividends later.

....and welcome to the forum, pcberg. you came to the right place!![:D][8D]

[Wdlgln005]

A) There can be a price difference between N and HO. You have to be careful to price similar items, like the MTL or IM FT vs the HO model. From the benchwork down, price can be the same.(4x8 ply,1/2 in thick, etc).
You may want to compare an oval of track in each scale. HO requires 18" min, while N enjoys the wider radius. the ROW will be thinner in N.

B) HO has the most available, but N is catching up fast. Once again, you need a good HO/N catalog to compare similar items. European ttrains are more difficult to find in the US, but a good Etailer will take care of that.

C) The 1950's will be too new for you, but could ber used as a basic reference. Many books are racing to convert the old color film to a modern storage media. A basic history of the RR or the region is a good place to start.

D) Do youir research to se what year products were introduced. You won't have any Ford Mustangs on your layout. Steel is scarce, so you may not have many steel cars in your fleet. It may be more difficult to use 1940 paint schemes. THe transition era runs thru the 1950's.

E) DCC is coming fast. Most new models should be easy to convert. You could avoid completely the old junk from the past. No need to buy 30-60yr old trains, with bad motors, crude details,etc. Then you can always convert. I'm sure it will get easier as time goes by.

F) Kato Unitrak is bulletproof. It's a great way to start. Decide early on the Code800Nscale trak, & don't look back. It's YOUR rr. You could choose finer scale Code55trak.

G) For the WW2 era, that restricts the kind of equipment you will buy.
In Nscale steam, you want Bachmann Consolidated 2-8-0. Also, the Model Power Pacific 4-6-2 or mikado 2-8-2. One of them could be used for switch duty until we get a decent 0-6-0 or 0-8-0 model.
Nscal diesel, Atlas RS1 is your best bet. You could get a Baldwin VO switcher. Your passengers ride behind LifeLike E6 or Alco DL109. Freights get a MTL or IM FT.
For passenger cars, snap up some of the heavyweight real quick. We need Walthers to get in this market soon!
For freight cars, MTL, Atlas and IM make some 1920-1940 era cars. Most will be wood or outside brtaced.

If any of this is confusing, feel free to visit your LHS or any Nscale website.

[Anonymous]

With all respect to the last poster, I wouldn't advise buying Marklin - due to their using 3-rail AC you're limited to their own locos and a few others. Better to stick with 2-rail DC. Most of Marklin's 3-rail models are also offered in the Trix range as 2-rail DC. Marklin is high-quality but I'd advise against buying it because of this. You can convert Marklin cars for 2-rail use (their catalogue lists replacement wheelsets) if there's a particular paint scheme you're interested in that Trix don't have.

[Anonymous]

Ah, German WWII.

Check out Rocco, Marklin and Fleishman for German prototype.

Marklin uses a three rail system -- similar to Lionel but more prototypical looking-- where you don't have to do any special wiring to make a reverse loop. Marklin and Fleishman are expensive but very high quality. There are many Marklin web communities out there and they might be better able to answer your questions.

[jrbarney]

PCBerg,
Here's a link to an earlier thread on the WWII theme:
http://www.trains.com/community/forum/topic.asp?page=1&TOPIC_ID=9370
It has some leads in the various postings. And, you may also find this site of interest:
http://www.ww2modelmaker.com
Hope this helps re the German DRG, etc.
Bob
NMRA Life 0543

[Anonymous]

I know Arnold have offered camoflaged German steamers in N scale in the past - they also had a little "Kof" diesel switcher painted for the Kriegsmarine and a set of wagons transporting assorted supplies (everything from large castings to piles of wood). Apart from those, pretty much any Epoch 2 equipment would be ideal (European modellers use the Epoch system to classify the time period of a prototype - Epoch 2 covers the WW2 period, we're now in Epoch 5). What year were you planning to model? Post 1943 remember to add ample weathering and plenty of damage to the scenery, as by this stage the Axis was heading towards defeat rapidly - the Soviets had started their advance, the U boats were being hit hard by improved Allied tactics and equipment, both the RAF and USAAF were pounding Germany day and night. If you were to model in HO Liliput have just released a series of locos and cars in WW2 camoflage paint and Lima offered a heavy rail-mounted gun in a set with a loco and crew cars, though with Lima currently being out of production it's a case of buy one if you find one. Again, pretty much all Epoch 2 equipment could be used - by the later stages of the war losses of equipment resulted in trains formed from whatever still had wheels and could move. Hope this is of help!

[dehusman]

Before each session will you let the local RC plane group fly over your layout and drop cherry bombs on it? 8-)

Dave H.

[DSchmitt]

QUOTE: Originally posted by pcberg
[b) I should have said this earlier :( but my interest is in Axis. Somebody said most steamers are ok since few were build after the war. I guess I can apply that to a German steamer too then. I doubt Germany was much into coming up with new designs after the war. ;) Any other recommendations considering I'm into Axis? (and don't get me wrong: I most certainly don't have any (positive) admiration for the political situation of Germany during that time!!)

c) Some people of you quoted steamer numbers such as "a-b-c" (2-6-0). What does that stand for? (Go ahead and tell me to read a book. Just tell me which. ;) )

b)
Here is a store which specializes in European trains. A lot of them are WW2 period. They also have a huge selection of HO military equipment (Roco and a number of other brands). There is N scale too, but for your interests by far the best selection is in HO.

http://www.reynaulds.com/

c) a-b-c is a method of desnigating the wheel arangement of a locomotive
(a) non driven leading wheels, (b) driven wheels (c) non powered trailing wheels
It's called the Whyte system http://www.nashvillentrak.org/Whyte.html

The Whyte system is best suited to and commonly applied to steam locos, but has been applied to diesels too. a B-B diesel is a 0-4-0+0-4-0

[Anonymous]

Holy moly everybody!! Appreciate the detailed feedback!

(I'm starting at 'a' again, so that it's harder to tell how many questions I asked in total :P )

a) How do you keep dust from accumilating on your train set? Or I guess the better question is: Once it settles, how do you clean? (I have a dust-mite allergy, a hobby that makes me sneeze won't be a good one :( )

b) I should have said this earlier :( but my interest is in Axis. Somebody said most steamers are ok since few were build after the war. I guess I can apply that to a German steamer too then. I doubt Germany was much into coming up with new designs after the war. ;) Any other recommendations considering I'm into Axis? (and don't get me wrong: I most certainly don't have any (positive) admiration for the political situation of Germany during that time!!)

c) Some people of you quoted steamer numbers such as "a-b-c" (2-6-0). What does that stand for? (Go ahead and tell me to read a book. Just tell me which. ;) )

[palallin]

For military vehicles, look for the HO Roco Minitanks line.

[loathar]

I think if you want WWII, HO is going to offer more products. I haven't run across a lot of N WWII stuff but then I haven't been looking for it. I have run across A LOT in HO.
Good luck!

[dehusman]

Probably the worst known streamlined passenger train was the NYC "Empire State Express" who's debut was set for Dec. 7, 1941. Unfortunately the train got bumped from the news.

Dave H.

[jimrice4449]

For engines it would be easier to list those not appropriate. In steam the NYC Niagara and the BLI Pennsylvania T-1 were post WWII (the PRR had 2 prototype T-1s durring WWII, but there were minor but noticeable differences between them and the fleet of 50 that the model represents). Any other steam engine would be appropriate. The worst mistake you'd be able to make would be to get a version of an engine w/ a post-WWII number if you got a class that extended from pre through post WWII.
Diesels are equally easy. The only road (non-switcher) diesel would be a General Motors FT or an Alco RS-1. The only possibility for error here would be getting one of the appropriate diesels in a post-WWII paint scheme, a topic too extensive to go into here.
For frt cars any car with wood sides would be appropriate. For steel cars most cars of 40' length would do but it would be possible to screw up here. The best thing to do would be to find a local hobby shop (LHS in internetese) w/ knowledgable staff and cultivate and cheri***hem.
Psgr equipment is easy/hard. Any heavywieght cars would work. Lightwieght (streamlined) cars are probably best avoided if you're seriously interested in temporal accuracy. Most available cars are post WWII and you have to be something of a psgr train freak to pick out those that aren't and many that are have post WWII paint scemes.
The good news is, in HO at Least, you have not only a wide selection of vehicles from Jeeps to AFVs (including Wehrmacht!) but you have models available of the WWII troop sleepers and diners built specifically for WWII troop train service

[dehusman]

a) Is there a price difference between N and HO sets?
==============================
Depends on the item. Its not that wide.
==============================
b) I'm interested in a WWII themed set. Does it matter if I pick N or HO for that?
==============================
Depends on the availability of the WW2 vehicles you want. If you can find the appropriate WW2 tanks, etc then either would be OK.

For WW2 you would have large steamers (which is good for N) and the only road diesels would be the FT which are available in HO and N. Pasenger diesels would be primarily E units. There would diesel switchers: Alco S, early SW and Baldwin VO series.
==========================
d) How do I go about purchasing WWII items? I havn't had a problem finding figures and vehicles. But it seems much harder to find buildings and Locos.
==========================
Since there were relatively few steamers built new after WW2 virtually any steamer would be OK. All USRA engines would be good since they date from WW1. As I said before the FT and any Alco S or Baldwin VO switcher would be good.

Buildings aren't that hard. Vrtually all the brick buildings on the market are appropriate, anything made of corrugated siding and most concrete buildings (except for tilt-ups).
===========================
Sure, I guess a steam engine would be fine, but how do I know it's truly WWII? Most of the product pages I've looked at don't seem to provide "service dates."
===========================
The IHC 2-6-0 and 4-4-0 plus most r-t-r 2-8-0's would be OK (the MDC Old-timer seriesare a little old), anything Bowser makes, any USRA design engine, any articulated engine and any of the newer steam that has been made in the last 10 years.
================================
e) Pricing (and sanity:) wise I'd like to start with DC. If I ever switch to DCC, do I need to "re-purchase" the electronics or are the tracks and the loco "DCC ready" even though I don't have the appropriate controller?
=================================
Not necessarily. All DCC ready means is that the engine has a plug to put a decoder in. You still have to buy the decoder.
=================================
f) I read somewhere that Kato Uni-Track doesn't have to be permenantly fastened
down. I'm guessing that may be a good initial setup for me too ...
==================================
The problem with all the ready-made track is that it is very constraining as far as the track plan you can use. You have to use the track spacing, radius and alignment that the manufacturer specifies.

Dave H.

[orsonroy]

QUOTE:
a) Is there a price difference between N and HO sets?

Not really. Some things are cheaper in N, some are cheaper in HO. Same goes for quality. Availability might be a little easier in HO, especially when it comes to 1940s-appropriate vehicles.

QUOTE:
b) I'm interested in a WWII themed set. Does it matter if I pick N or HO for that?

Again, not really. There's more of everything available in HO, so it'll probably be easier for you to get WWII-related stuff in that scale, but if you dig hard enough you can find pretty much everything you need in either scale.

QUOTE:
c) Concerning book recommendations: Anything in particular that addresses my WWII theme? If not, what is your recommendations? I would like to read something that isn't too long. I need to understand the basics, but I don't want to information-overload. Yet I'd like to avoid beginning mistakes.

This is the best book about WWII allied railroads I've seen:
http://www.amazon.com/exec/obidos/tg/detail/-/1550460218/qid=1124973180/sr=1-1/ref=sr_1_1/103-5062875-8489436?v=glance&s=books
Of course, it really doesn't deal with the civilian world of railroading too well, so you'll have to start reading chunks of lots of general railroading books. Both MR and Trains have recently printed articles dealing with the WWII-era, so you should hunt them down as a first step. Classic Trains has also published several articles on the 1940s.

QUOTE:
d) How do I go about purchasing WWII items? I havn't had a problem finding figures and vehicles. But it seems much harder to find buildings and Locos. Sure, I guess a steam engine would be fine, but how do I know it's truly WWII? Most of the product pages I've looked at don't seem to provide "service dates."

As with anything else, you have to start with research. The internet is a pretty good place to start, especially this site:
http://railroad.union.rpi.edu/
It's a pay site, but it's sections on freight car data and scenery are invaluable resources for proto-inspired model railroading. You'll get more general information out of this one site than you will out of a dozen books.

Finding buildings is actually one of the simplest things to do in this hobby. Start with DPM stores and factories and Branchline and Atlas houses, and you'll be able to find most of what you need. Once your knowledge base gets a little better, you can supplement those two manufacturers with others.

As for steam, there was VERY little built after WWII, and most of that was repeat orders of prewar stuff. Basically any non-brass steam engine you can buy is appropriate for the WWII-era.

Once youo know what sort of things you're looking for, look for the models on the Walthers website. You may not want to BUY from Walthers (which likes full MSRP), but as a reference tool, it's an invaluable guide to what's out there. Shop and compare on the various online hobby stores, and at your local hobby shop for best prices.

QUOTE:
e) Pricing (and sanity:) wise I'd like to start with DC. If I ever switch to DCC, do I need to "re-purchase" the electronics or are the tracks and the loco "DCC ready" even though I don't have the appropriate controller?

There are some engines on the market that come equipped with "dual-mode" decoders already installed, mostly from BLI and Atlas. Track doesn't care if it's DC or DCC. Most other engines on the market these days are "DCC-ready", meaning that it's (usually) a simple five minute process to add a decoder (basic ones can be found for $18).

QUOTE:
f) I read somewhere that Kato Uni-Track doesn't have to be permenantly fastened
down. I'm guessing that may be a good initial setup for me too ...

Be careful here: Kato and Bachmann sectional track sections are OK for temporary use, but are expensive! You might not want to invest too heavily into them if you're planning on building a "traditional" layout down the road. There are a few people who have successfully used sectional track on a permanent layout, but it's cheaper and simpler in the long run to just use flextrack and premade switches.

[dgwinup]

My opinion, for what it's worth:

a) There is a difference in price between N and HO, but it's not universal. Sometimes N is more expensive, sometimes HO. Depends on what you are buying. Buying a 'set' may not be your best bet, though. Sets are usually of lesser quality than buying individual pieces. Check with your local hobby shop (LHS) and you'll see what I mean.

b) No. (Maybe HO has more era-specific models, but just maybe! And they will probably cost you extra.)

c) You will need to do some research for date-specific items. Model Railroader magazine just published a book specifically about modeling in the 1950's. This is a little later than your time frame, but much of the information will apply since during the war, the railroads couldn't make many changes in their rolling stock or locomotives. Rationing, you know! Also, after 1949, not many steam locomotives were built (N&W being the major exception, but they built their own!), so most (not all) of the steam engines will be appropriate for your time period.
Also, pick a railroad to model. (You didn't mention if you had a favorite railroad.) Then research that railroad through its historical society (Google the railroad). You will be able to read a lot of information. If you join, you can get hard copies for nominal fees.

d) See answer 'c' above for locomotives. Buildings will take a little research, mainly for architectural style. The more modern buildings were built of poured concrete and 'Butler' style buildings, with sheet metal siding. Pikestuff brand has a lot of that style, but most of it is too new for WWII. (Butler started their business in the 1930's, so some of it may be appropriate.)

e) It's either DC or DCC, the equipment is NOT interchangable. A layout wired for DC can be converted to DCC, but you will need new power equipment and all of your non-DCC locos will have to be modified with decoders. Most newer DCC locos will run on DC, but you will still have to run them by DC standards (one loco, one power suppy, multiple electrical blocks, etc.) Pricing? Ha! DCC can be expensive, and converting DC locos can get pretty expensive, too. If you are really into the hobby for the long term, go ahead and spend the money up front for the DCC. You will never regret it! If you have doubts about staying, start with DC, and upgrade when you are ready.

f) Yes. And no. (Nice clear answer, right?) You don't HAVE to permanently fasten Uni-Track, but it will help if you do. Examine the different ways to secure the track. Use one that will make it easy for you to make changes in the future as your medeling improves. If you don't fasten it down in some way, it will creep on you and your scenery will be harder to do. Kind of like riding in a dune buggy without a seat belt. It can be done, but who would WANT to??? LOL

BTW (by the way), the only dumb question is one that isn't asked.

Well, that's the end of my spout (sorry, Milo!). I'll go back to being quiet.

Darrell, quiet...for now

[twhite]

You picked a fascinating era to model--my own railroad is set in that era. Here's a few hints, if you like:

Locomotives: Everything from 0-6-0 switchers to 4-8-8-4 Big Boys. WWII was the last great surge of American steam, everything that could run was put into service. Some railroads 'borrowed' steam locos from other railroads--for instance, it wasn't unusual to see Missabe Road 2-8-8-4's running in Colorado, or Pennsy 2-8-2's on the Santa Fe. Some of the more notable steamers built just before or during WWII were the Missabe 2-8-8-4's, UP's 'Big Boy' 4-8-8-4's, Western Maryland's 4-8-4's, N&W's 2-6-6-4's, C&O's 2-6-6-6's, Pennsy's 2-10-4's, and the last of SP's Cab-Forward 4-8-8-2's. EMD was just beginning to make inroads with their FT freight diesels, but the real changeover from steam to diesel didn't begin until after 1945.

Traffic patterns varied widely, depending upon the 'theater' of war. As the Allies were winning in Germany, more and more traffic was directed to West Coast ports as supplies and troops were sent into the Pacific. Some passenger trains ran in two or three sections, troop 'extra' trains were the norm. For instance, Southern Pacific's Donner Pass route might see upwards of sixty trains a day, most of it heading to the embarcation port of Oakland.

Rolling stock was mostly 40' cars, with a few 50' autos and flatcars. Equipment was a mixture of steel and wood. Passenger equipment was mainly heavyweight Pullman Standard, or Pullman 'Troop' cars. Military equipment was usually shipped on solid trains of 50' flatcars, either belonging to the US Army or private railroads. Many times, these trains would be run as the 2nd section of a troop train.

The Walther's HO catalogue has a good selection of military vehicles, just make sure that they're for the proper era. Two things to remember about that era--it was mostly steam powered, and there was a LOT of heavy traffic, both freight and passenger.
Hope this helps.
Tom

[Anonymous]

a) Is there a price difference between N and HO sets?

b) I'm interested in a WWII themed set. Does it matter if I pick N or HO for that?

c) Concerning book recommendations: Anything in particular that addresses my WWII theme? If not, what is your recommendations? I would like to read something that isn't too long. I need to understand the basics, but I don't want to information-overload. Yet I'd like to avoid beginning mistakes.

d) How do I go about purchasing WWII items? I havn't had a problem finding figures and vehicles. But it seems much harder to find buildings and Locos. Sure, I guess a steam engine would be fine, but how do I know it's truly WWII? Most of the product pages I've looked at don't seem to provide "service dates."

e) Pricing (and sanity:) wise I'd like to start with DC. If I ever switch to DCC, do I need to "re-purchase" the electronics or are the tracks and the loco "DCC ready" even though I don't have the appropriate controller?

f) I read somewhere that Kato Uni-Track doesn't have to be permenantly fastened
down. I'm guessing that may be a good initial setup for me too ...

Thanks a lot and sorry if my questions are dupes!! :(