Hiding a Helix

[nobullchitbids]

Well done, Midnight; but, the original thread was re how to hide them in the Midwest (where there are no gigantic mountains to stuff them in).

[thecutman]

I have 2 helix's on my Atlantic Coast & Eastern layout, one exposed at the topmost level only (3 loops below to the bottom level hidden with 4 tracks of staging at the lowest level maintaining a 27 inch curve, with a 20 inch straight section after each curved turn which relieves the strain on the train as it rounds the curves). The exposed (top)level was scenicked as a river course running along the inside of the helix track and scenicked with a forested hillside on the inside of the river and the outside of the track portion as it loops down to a tunnel portal for the train to disapear into the hidden portion of the "loop tracks" and the river disapears behind a tree line.
The other helix is a bit more difficult to explain as I really exposed the whole helix as I broke it into scenic elements, well sort of. I'll explain, this helix needs more than 120 feet of track to seperate the upper and lower levels of the railroad to about 16 inches from the top of the lower to the top of the upper level. It was designed so that it ducks in and out of scenic elements as it rises. Example, for the rise for the 1st turn of the helix it enters a tunnel (while in the tunnel it rises at a 2.5 grade for approx. 8 feet ( the longest section of hidden trackage) while maintaining a 24 inch radius, as it exits the tunnel I lessen the grade to about a 1% grade not quite level and scenically treat the next 6 feet (mostly straight) of track as two very large factory buildings with sidings and 6 stories high facing the operator. (The operator is now standing in the middle of this fully scenicked helix as the train runs around him) and disguises another level of loops which are behind these buildings, the track enters into one of the buildings and begins another 2.5 % climb (level 2), again out of sight for a full 24 in curve. Another scenic section (level 3) sits above and upon which the helix track runs exposed as a cinder fill. As level 2 exits a tunnel portal it runs along in front of the 3 foot trestle on level 4 and has a doubletrack girder bridge spanning the gorge that also comes into play at level 4 (same area but seperated by about 8 inches and a rock face). As level 3 is exposed I put in a turn back curve and headed in the opposite direction on another wall for the final climb (or level 4) this is totally exposed with a 3 foot long trestle behind which there is a mountain cliffside as a visual sight barrier keeping you from seeing all of the stuff on the other side of the helix with a cut at the far end to return along the wall now 180 degrees behind you and has a few bridges to keep your interest as it climbs the final grade to the summit which is directly over the place where the train originated. (16 inches lower). Many visitors are not even aware that the railroad is always climbing as it enters and climbs rapidly and exits and barely climbs where it is exposed. Sounds a bit confusing but it works well and offers many opportunities to do some nice scenic work and still progress to another full level with the sight lines only impeeded at four locations allowing the trains to be in full view of the operators most of the time. You've got to see it to believe it, but it was the only way I could gain the main line trackage I wanted for a "large operations pike".

[Anonymous]

Here is how i hid my helix. It is 2 turns, had to put this in to gain my elevation to the mine/sawmill/oil refinery level. There is access to it from underneath the layout.

[WmRBerg]

There are two Helix on the Puget Sound Model Railroad Engineer's layout at the Tacoma History Museum in Tacoma, Washington. See the following website;
http://www.psmre.org/
They have done a great job with their Helix and have addressed the issue in two different ways which they explain in the photo history of the layout. Hope that helps.

[CBQ_Guy]

QUOTE: Originally posted by tatans

A real goofy question: Can a helix be hidden BELOW the level of the layout?? would it be called a helix? the concept would be to get the train from the operating level to some other part of the layout, would it matter if it was above or below as long as the train arrived at another location on the layout, remember there is a LOT of space unused uneder the layout, or am I just nuts?

Definitely. I'm right now considering and trying to work out just a such concept to get down to a staging level which has to be just one foot above the floor, to get the track under the stairs. The line being double-track is making it more interesting! I don't have enough length out in the open for staging, for some of the train lengths I want to run, but I don't have enough front to back depth to fit all the staging tracks underneath any one section of the layout either. So I'll have to have multiple staging yards of a few tracks each, one on each wall of the basement , and then loop the track back to go back up the helix. The biggest drawback is that this is gonna use one heck of a lot of track!

(And I lose any storage under the layout, too.)

[nobullchitbids]

Remember: You will be painting on a curved surface, and that poses complications of its own. You might want to contact the Peabody Museum at Yale University to find out whether the "Wilson Grid" can be applied to such a surface.

And in the event you do not know, Perry Wilson was the greatest painter of museum diorama backdrops ever; he developed the "Wilson Grid" form of painting to compensate for the distortion which invades every still photograph. Peabody, which has backdrops painted both by Wilson and Jacques, is a good visit if ever you are in New Haven, CT (Jacques was a very good painter; but Wilson makes him look like an amateur).

[RedGrey62]

nobullchitbids, I have a very good friend who can paint extremely well so that may be an option.

RedGrey62

[nobullchitbids]

To answer the original question, you could use a "cyclorama" screen if the helix is built as a perfect cylinder. Cycloramas once were a very popular form of artwork, and some (like "The Battle of Atlanta") are very famous. In your circumstance, I assume you would want some kind of city scene, perhaps a freeway with buildings painted behind it and even some sky behind that. How good are you at painting like Perry Wilson?

[Anonymous]

Consider modeling the near vertical cliffs seen in northwestern Illinois such as along the Mississippi river. I have a double track 34" R. helix (1 track up and 1 down) on my 1960 era C & NW pike, The horizontal striations, the high vertical formations and the flat topped bluffs worked quite well with the form of the helix. . You do have to use a bit of artistic license to include a couple of tunnel portals - but so what. Over all I am pleased with the result.

[RedGrey62]

JohnT, double tracking the helix would be the best way to go but not really necessary. Lets see if I can draw this with words.

The simplest track plan would be point to point with one end on the "main" level and the other on the "upper" level, there would be one level below the main for staging. So imagine a single track running right down the center of the benchwork, a wye would be placed a couple of feet before the "up and down" helix. Assume the helix climbs clockwise. The track coming from the left leg of the wye would lead into the upward spiral of the helix, the other track leads to the downward. The left leg would have to start a gentle grade up to meet the upward spiral, both turnouts on the helix would need to be carefully placed for smooth operations. The staging yard could have a reverse loop, a runaround track, turntable, or just be a fiddle yard. Trains would move upward to either the main or upper levels, since there are two turnouts, one will be a facing point allowing the train to move onto the main level. Same with downward moving trains.

Now for the head on collision aspect. A passing siding would be placed just before the entrance to the helix on both the main and upper levels. The heliz would be treated as a block and if a train occupies the helix, a stop or red signal would be displayed.

On the next version of my layout, I plan on DCC so reverse loops will be no problem, we have 2 on our club layout and they work great. Also, with the track plan described above, I already have a true "wye" with the 3rd leg formed on the helix itself.

I bleive this solution allows the most train watching and running by having one helix provide access to both levels of the scenic layout and the staging yard. I may try to draw it and upload it as a picture.

RedGrey62

[JohnT14808]

Red...using the helix as an entry / departure point for staging "might" work, but your staging would then have to be a reversing loop, wouldn't it? And, you would have to have a double track helix...AND the return track from staging would have to re-enter the helix on the opposite track, so you don't end up with head on crashes somewhere on the layout!! {I don't think you would want to reverse from staging into the helix, just to leave the staging area...that's why I mentioned that the staging area would have to be a reversing loop to and from the helix.}
Would all this be worth it? Depends on how much ROOM you have to play with. Does sound intriguing though.....

[RedGrey62]

We have a helix that goes up to the upper level and one that goes down to a staging area on our club layout, so no, you're not crazy!

Thanks for all the ideas, I will float them and see which I will go with.

Here's another idea. What a bout a single helix that goes up to the next level and down to staging? Build a single helix from staging to the upper level with the main level tracks entering in the middle via turnout(s). It would need 2 trunouts so a train coming up from staging (or going down) could leave the helix and another turnout so trains could navigate between upper and main level. SOunds complicated but I think its a rather easy solution.

RedGrey62

[tatans]

A real goofy question: Can a helix be hidden BELOW the level of the layout?? would it be called a helix? the concept would be to get the train from the operating level to some other part of the layout, would it matter if it was above or below as long as the train arrived at another location on the layout, remember there is a LOT of space unused uneder the layout, or am I just nuts?

[CBQ_Guy]

QUOTE: Originally posted by KenLarsen

QUOTE: Originally posted by JohnT14808

Heck, Red, we didn't even bother. The helix hits you right in the face when entering our club. So we just made a nice curved wall with a BIG window in it so visitors could watch the trains going up and down the double track helix. It's really a draw when running a 4 engine consist pulling about 65 freight cars.

SP didn't bother to hide their helix (Tehacheppi Loop)[xx(][(-D] (Sorry - couldn't resist!)

And they did a fairly decent scenicing job, too. [:D]

[dknelson]

Check out Jim Hediger's Ohio & Southern in the latest MR. Notice how the layout takes a fairly conventional rectangular shape, with the helix sort of off to one side. When you visit Jim's layout, which I had the privilege of doing during an NMRA regional convention, you hardly notice that the helix is there even though it is not totaly concealed. I think that is because it is not in the way of anything and as your eyes follow the natural progression of the tracks (and of course the trains) there is no good reason for your eyes to shift to the helix.
Of course I knew it was there and eventually went looking for it.

I would second those who point out that you will want access to the thing.

Also do not ignore the design potential of what some have called a herniated helix
That is, that some loops extend further out than the main helix, on shelves, that can themselves be scenicked. Am I making myself clear? If the main helix is a 30 inch radius curve, and is enclosed, if one loop is say a 40 inch radius curve it will leave the enclosure presumably by way of a tunnel portal or other disguised means and that entire loop can be a scene. Unlikely that you would want a siding unless it was a "dummy" that was never actually switched, but who'se to say you couldn't give that a try too.
Dave Nelson

[Leon Silverman]

Suggest you hide only part of the the helix so that you can verify that the train is negotiating the helix properly. Regardless, make sure your helix has some kind of barrier that ensures that any derailed cars or locos will not wind up on the floor.

[Anonymous]

QUOTE: Originally posted by JohnT14808

Heck, Red, we didn't even bother. The helix hits you right in the face when entering our club. So we just made a nice curved wall with a BIG window in it so visitors could watch the trains going up and down the double track helix. It's really a draw when running a 4 engine consist pulling about 65 freight cars.

SP didn't bother to hide their helix (Tehacheppi Loop)[xx(][(-D] (Sorry - couldn't resist!)

[TomDiehl]

Another slant on the visible helix idea. Our club has sceniced the side facing the rest of the layout and the top, but the aisle wraps around the outside of the helix (it connects the upper and lower levels on a mushroom type layout). This part we left open and the visitors love it.

[chateauricher]

Here's an idea ...

OPTION 1 : Wrap the sides in clear plexiglass (or something similar), then scenik the layout as though the plexiglass were a painted backdrop (but don't paint the plexiglass). The plexiglass would protect trains from curious fingers and prevent derailed rolling stock from falling out.

OPTION 2 : You could even put plexiglass "windows" in some areas and close in the rest (disguised as a mountain-side or cliff-face). This would allow people to catch glimpses of the train and protect it (like in Option 1) while also hiding the more boring/repetitive nature of the helix (a train just going 'round and 'round and 'round...).

[Big_Boy_4005]

QUOTE: Originally posted by JohnT14808

Heck, Red, we didn't even bother. The helix hits you right in the face when entering our club. So we just made a nice curved wall with a BIG window in it so visitors could watch the trains going up and down the double track helix. It's really a draw when running a 4 engine consist pulling about 65 freight cars. The train takes up three levels of the five in the helix.
We did cover the top of the helix with scenery. As soon as I get the rest of the pictures loaded from our recent County Fair, I'll give out the URL on Rail Images for all to see. We have two helixes, one at either end of the layout. One has farming and industrial scene on top and the other has mountain logging and mining action, complete with three different wooden bridges and water scenes.

People always sound shocked and disappointed when I say I'm going to cover mine. It is cool watching the trains going up and down, but I was thinking I would just them look over the top and see down in.

[JohnT14808]

Heck, Red, we didn't even bother. The helix hits you right in the face when entering our club. So we just made a nice curved wall with a BIG window in it so visitors could watch the trains going up and down the double track helix. It's really a draw when running a 4 engine consist pulling about 65 freight cars. The train takes up three levels of the five in the helix.
We did cover the top of the helix with scenery. As soon as I get the rest of the pictures loaded from our recent County Fair, I'll give out the URL on Rail Images for all to see. We have two helixes, one at either end of the layout. One has farming and industrial scene on top and the other has mountain logging and mining action, complete with three different wooden bridges and water scenes.

[cjcrescent]

The closet idea sounds just as good as any but you would still have to "disguise" the closet side the track comes in or out of. Why not hide the entrance under a highway overpass, situated in a small village and have the exit on the next level disguised as the other side of the same overpass, with the rest of the village. Or even use another overpass model on the exit and say overpass on lower level is at Milepost 23, Smalltown, and the upper level overpass is at Milepost 43, Tinyton. You just put 20 miles between the disappearence and reappearence of the train, and provided two flag stops for the locals.

[Big_Boy_4005]

I'm going to wrap mine with backdrop, and building flats. I have a couple of tracks that run out in front. I haven't decided what to do with the top. It's a lot of space to waste, but my prototype doesn't really call for anything in that location. Still thinking.

[RedGrey62]

Okay, looks like negotiations are going well and I may have the garage to build my next layout (last one dismantled in 9X12 spare bedroom). I have about a year to think and plan for this (a year in Iraq sans trains!) and I want to start getting some ideas BEFORE I drywall the garage and start building benchwork.

I want a two level layout and I need to put in a helix. The ones at the club I'm in are just open, soon to be in a mountain. I model the midwest and am looking for ideas to hide or at least make not as noticeable.

I was thinking of enclosing it in a "closet" since I drywalling the garage anyway. The area leading to the wall of the closet would be disguised as an industrial or wooded area. Any other ideas? Thanks

RedGrey62