Highways vs. Railroads

[Anonymous]

Some pork barrel politicians are out to build what they call 1-66 across Southern Kentucky. They already have a good 4-lane east-west limited-access toll highway, that due to low traffic, is still collecting toll after 25-30 years or more and hasn't been paid off yet. The people most benefiting from such a new road would be, (guess), trucking companies. It makes one wonder just how much money the truckers have slipped in the politicians pockets anyway?. Much more traffic across Kentucky goes north and south, from Louisville to Nashville, and from Cincinnati to Knoxville, etc. Why are state and federal 'servants' so prone to push new roads whether they are needed or not, and leave older roads that need repairs out in the cold. (They are servants, taxpayers pay their wages.) In Kentucky the Highway Cabinet is very powerful. In the meantime, the goverment tax RRs to death on fuel, etc. I say that every one interested in trains and railroads ought to find out their friends in congress(both states and federal) and throw the other bums out, no matter what their party! Let them earn their own living for a change! They been on the public dole long enough!Maybe MR or RMC could make such a list for us so we would know how to vote next election!!
Ole Greenriver

[Anonymous]

Hello Ole Greenriver,

Another perspective is that taxpayers typically don't subsidize freight railroads for hauling freight on their private right of ways, Conrail's bailout aside.

We do, however, subsidize the trucking industry's use of highways and interstates. Every long-haul carload of freight taken off the rails is another truckload beating up the asphalt. We pay for new and repaired roads in gas and road maintenance taxes. The trucking industry's taxes don't fully cover the damage they cause. Public policy, rather inadvertently or intentionally, is to support the trucking industry at the expense of railroads.

Another way to look at this is that trucks create an expense to taxpayers in two ways: once when we buy a good transported long-haul by truck, to pay for the cost of transportation, and again when we pay for new or repaired highways and freeways.

We also pay an expense in the air we breathe. Trucks spew out far more pollution per ton-mile than railroads do. Compare three Dash 9s hauling an intermodal train with 200 containers to 200 trucks going the same distance. And let's face it -- wouldn't we be all a little safer without so many big rigs on the road, not to mention on our city streets?

Paul Schmidt
Contributing Editor
Trains.com

[csxns]

But how does the containers and trailers get to the dock.How can the truck be replaced.

[douginut]

perhaps by laying down spurs to every business large and small in north america!
Track to every WalMart!

Yeah!

[Anonymous]

Hello csxns,

Short-haul trucking vs. long-haul was my point. Trains should haul, trucks should deliver. Of course there are cases where trucks are the only means of moving freight from Point A to Point B. However, in many cases there are corridors where rail and highways parallel each other. These are the instances where the politicos need to support rail's advantages.

Cheers,

Paul

[BRAKIE]

They need to crack down on the drivers that thinks it cool to drive for 24 or more hours just to make a buck.

Folks,If you worked in a warehouse and see what I see every day you would not want any trucks on a long haul.Next time you see a big rig coming at you on a 2 lane hi-way just pry he doesn't fall asleep before you pass him.

Use trains for long hauls and trucks for the short haul.The hi-way will be safer.

[Anonymous]

There is a big Wal Mart Distribution center here near I-80, but a few miles from the rail line that goes to Spring Valley, it does go through Ladd, but no rail to the center that I can see. The center is huge, trucks lined up like a train going in. 4-5 years ago in Cypress, Calif. I watched a SP spur line being taken out along the North side of the Los Alamitos racetrack, to a Industrial Center just North of Mitsubishi and Sony, it was sad to see, the buildings had rail lines and rail doors, but were better served by truck, they were relatively small. Here, the Wal Mart center is bigger than that whole complex. Blocks of warehouse. A few miles away is Del Monte in Mendota, that is small in comparison. - Tom

[csxns]

Their are nice warehouses in my area also good rail docks but the switch is been took out.Wal Mart built a big one here also but no tracks but they chose the location because if trucking messes up they can be served by CSX and NS.

[Anonymous]

Hey Ole Greenriver, that limited access toll road wouldn't happen to be a parkway would it? We were vacationing in Virginia this spring and came back home through KY and drove an E-W 4 lane almost across the length of the state on our way back to 75. It had a toll booth at every entrance/exit ramp. Some of them weren't even manned so I didn't bother stopping. We were practically the only vehicle on the road, and you could see where grass had permeated the asphalt on the emergency lanes, but the road itself looked to be almost new, although by the size of the trees and vegetation on the banks you could tell it was quiet old. I can't remember the exact name of the highway but it was something parkway.

[Anonymous]

With tax subsidies on par with those spent on interstate highways, railroads could be given incentives to upgrade their lines, perhaps even to the point of re-emergence of private passenger rail service. Japanese and European passenger services flourish because of public spending, which enables them to maintain a higher quality of infrastructure, which is necessary for high-speed service.

Imagine this scenario: Amtrak gets a big budget boost in the form of a right-of-way allowance, which it then uses to lease the mainlines that it uses from the owning railroads, stipulating that all maintenance of that line will be performed by Amtrak, to a level that meets or exceeds current standards. This way, Amtrak gets to do its own quality-control and thus avoid derailments (and Jay Leno jokes), as well as deploy faster-running trainsets. The private railroads get in influx of cash from their leased lines as well as the benefit of well-maintained mainlines on which to run, and they can thus invest in other means of service, whether that means more TOFC/Container loading areas to keep up with the trucks or more industrial spurs to WalMart distribution centers.

The only thing I dont like, due to my particular political stripe, is my observation about how Federal moneys come with strings attached, and how this would almost surely result in new regulations of the private railroads, along the lines of "if you're gonna lease this line to Amtrak, then you're gonna do x and y..." I'm not sure how you prevent that kind of thing.

[jsanchez]

Highway spending is the biggest form of welfare in the USA 300,000,000 plus a day and that doesn't count snow removal, roadkill removal, highway police patrol costs, the list goes on and on, highways were pretty cheap to build and maintain back in the 50's but now the opposite is true. I really think the U.S should do like most of the world and have new expressways be built by the private sector, it would cost far less, they could be built quicker, and they could be taxable profitable businesses instead of a drain on the taxpayer. Most of the states and the federal government are going to face serious financial problems due in part to overspending on pork barrel highway projects, so I see this situation coming to a head in about five to ten years, you can't keep spending what you don't have indefinately, especially if the tax base is shrinking due to factory closings, bankruptcy's and growing unemployment. I do see some states actively pushing for more rail freight, Pennsylvania, New York, California, North Carolina, in part because they realize rail freight saves them millions in road repairs and capacity expansions. Pennsylvania actualy pays railroads and industries to build railspurs, needless to say dozens have been built or reopened.
Wal-Mart was also mentioned, they are starting to experiment with shipping by boxcar for the first time, now that freight service is getting better and the shortage in truck drivers continues, this is seen as good alternative, you can fit 3 to 5 truckloads in a boxcar, so if you ship large volumes it definitely has advantages. So don't be surprised if you start seeing some of the new Wal Mart wherehouses have rail sidings. Wal-Mart has also increased its use of intermodal and is a large reason why intermodal shipments have really increased for the railroads. Sam Walton disliked like railroads and used them as little as possible, I guess the current management feels differently.

[csxns]

The new Wal-Mart dist center in Shelby NC doesn't have rail service but csx and NS is nearby.If they did build a spur the huge warehouse will have to be modified big time.A big cost to a warehouse less than a year old.

[csxns]

The Wal-Mart dist center in Pageland SC is new also but no railroads.The nearest is about 30 miles.

[Anonymous]

To Tough 198
No, the roads you were on were probably the Daniel Boone Parkway and the Cumberland Parkway if you crossed the southern part of the state.It could have been the Bluegrass Parkway in Cnetral Ky. Bu this is not the ones they want to build or rebuild. They want a brand new one! And like you said, no traffic much east and west. But that's pork barrel politics for you. Greenriver

[Anonymous]

Yes, Cumberland parkway was it. Being from NC and living in TN I have rarely seen a toll road. I could never quit get the concept of that. Are toll roads paid for strictly by the tolls? It would seem pretty stupid to build a road with tax dollars then charge people a fee to drive on it.

[Anonymous]

Cumberland Parkway was built during the Louie B. Nunn Administration in Frankfort. It was supposed to be paid for with tolls, but with the light traffic, tolls have been collected now for at least 25-30 years and the end apparently is not yet in sight. Politicians love to have a road named after them even if they have to build one, which I fear is going to be the case in the planned I-66 that U.S. Senator Harold Rogers is pushing. Expensive momuments! Greenriver

[Anonymous]

Dear Mr. Schmidt,

I can certainly see your point of view but those of us who are in the trucking industry here in Canada also have to have an opinion on this subject. A case in point would be the following question: How many train crossing accidents happen versus truck accidents are there? If Walmart and other companies had rail service would that potential for accidents go up just because there are now more rails crossing the roadways? How expensive would it now be to put overpasses over the rails? My point is this; don't think the country would be safer with less trucks on the road and don't assume that the professional drivers out there are always the cause of such accidents. It takes a bit of time and space to stop a big rig and a lot longer to stop a train.

[Anonymous]

name one highway in kentucky that is a toll road. what has that to do with model trains anyway?
charles
in mayfield

[Anonymous]

For God's sake we don't need more highways that can't be taken care of. I know the roads in KY, WV, and OH take a severe beating from the amount of truck traffic they currently bear.
Conrail was one of the few things that our gov't actually did that truly paid off, and they didn't hold on to it. What does that tell you?
Poor old ROCK, or Rock Island, couldn't even get the Gov't to help out when they needed it. Look what happened there.
Railroads need our support if they are to continue to operate as we know them. Long haul is for railroads, NOT TRUCKS!!

[deevs]

I to wonder what this post is doing in A model train forum or are you people talking about A new layout.
deevs

[Anonymous]

If the fuel prices continue at their current rate rail shipping will become far more competive.Sence we do'nt subsidize the railroads physical plant like we do for the trucks it's difficult to compete with a rubber-tired railroad with more or less free track.On MY railroad the goverment pays for ALL track and roads.We did away with all politicians.We only have a railroad president who oversees all. Wiggs

[Anonymous]

Get ye a cup of coffee and a doughnut and join us in lambasting stupid politicians! Then help us all vote right next election for the guys who support rails so we will have somethin' to model!
The old hick - Greenriver