Joe Fugate's scenery plaster mixture, Swedish edition (step by step with pictures)

[jfugate]

Electro:

Glad you found the videos helpful. Each volume is a how-to compilation of various proven techniques for doing various modeling activities. Volume 1 is the introduction and discusses trying to model a prototype faithfully (the SP Siskiyou Line in my case).

Volume 3 is all about things DCC, and volume 4 is the scenery and bridges volume. The script for volume 4 is currently being written and the cameras should start rolling in January, with an expected release date of April-May 2006. If you want to know specifically what will be in volume 4, see this link:
http://mymemoirs.net/model-trains/forum/phpBB2/viewtopic.php?t=156

As to your question about info on building structures and bridges, video volume 4 will have a chapter on building and installing a trestle bridge out of stryrene.

Then volume 5 will cover prototype operations in depth, and we hope to feature a 4449 excursion down the Siskiyou Line as the grand finale to the series.

I am passionate in my feeling that the hobby needs more multi-media how to material. Magazine articles only go so far in showing people how to do things. Now that I've been in the hobby for nearly 40 years, I'm finding I've learned a few things and am looking for ways to share my experiences with other fellow modelers and help them out.

That's also why I try to help out with the forum clinics and answering people's questions on this forum. I love the hobby and want to help out where ever I can.

The only problem is the day's just too dang short ... and I'd like to actually do some modeling on my own layout now and then!

[electrolove]

Joe, just wanted to tell you that I ordered your DVD volume 1. I have already seen it maybe ten times. It's really amazing and a very good starting point for the other DVD volumes. I really love the water cars, so interesting. You mentioned in the DVD that the water cars is not used the whole year on the prototype, just the summer months. Is it the same on the model?

I also ordered volume 2. I have not recieved it yet but it's on the way. Looking forward to see it and learn.

Are you working on the scenery volume right now? Just curious.

I also wondering. Are you planning a DVD volume about scratchbuilding structures, bridges and things like that? I think that would be great for all of us that like to model a certain prototype where kits is not available.

Thanks Joe for very great and inspiring work.

[jfugate]

David:

Didn't mean to come across sounding hard about any off-topic posts. Heaven knows I post my share of OT posts.

But I kept seeing this thread come up to the top over and over with my name on it and when I would check it was more discussion about Swedish ... the thread seemed to be getting an OT life of it's own and I thought it best to suggest we rein it back in for the benefit of others on the forum.

I apologize if I sounded harsh, that was not my intent.

[electrolove]

Yes, lets talk trains here please.

[Anonymous]

Joe:

I read two threads just before I left for work last night. Your entry in this one and the following (quoted in part)...

"Posts: 38
Joined: 23 Jul 2003
Location: The Great Midwest
What types of dyes would work well to produce transparent colors in Realistic Water by Woodland Scenics? I believe WS pigments would produce opaque results. If I am incorrect on this, please let me know...
--------------------
Frank Eva
Digital Railroader LLC
http://www.dcctrax.com

Profile Email Web Back to top


howmus Posted: 12 Nov 2005, 12:10:00 Quote


Posts: 853
Joined: 30 Dec 2004
Location: Finger Lakes
Most people paint the base of the lake, pond, stream, whatever you are modeling rather than dying the water itself. That way you can vary the coloring under the water to get a realistic look to it. I wouldn't add anything to the WS Realistic Water itself. It could change the properties of the product and you might get some very unexpected results. There are several threads on the forum about creating ponds, etc. Do a search on Water and you may have more info.
--------------------
Ray


Seneca Lake, Ontario, and Western R.R. (S.L.O.&W.)

We'll get there sooner or later! Don't start vast projects with half-vast ideas!
Profile Back to top


AntonioFP45 Posted: 14 Nov 2005, 15:17:35 Quote
[ Just realised that the original VERY negative response words to the effect of "Just tell me the answer" were deleted before I copied].

Posts: 4293
Joined: 02 Dec 2003
Location: My favortie country: USA
Geez, Frank.

Your "Thumbs Down" response to Ray "Homus" was a bit abrasive and uncool. He was trying to help."

So I sat by the track (on topic) and felt really saddened. At least a bright full moon was making halo rainbows through thin cloud... you don't get that with toy trains.

So I'm thinking...

Most of my posts try to help. Many of them are downright serious... Track Safety is serious.
I enjoy a good, harmless giggle. Many of the threads and posts on this forum have really cheered me up.

Refering to another thread earlier yesterday I do try to thank people. As noted by someone else there is a question of when to say thanks.
The opposite side of that is that many of my posts are quite long. I put in the time and effort hoping that they will help people to comprehend what they are looking at beyond the short answer. I really appreciate it when I get a positive feedback.
I also post bits that might amuse or take a different slant on things. All of us can get way too serious about our hobby.

So.. I have to admit that my reaction to the two things quoted was probably a bit strong.

You should have had an E mail from me intended with humour.

If you didn't it said:

"Tåg = trains
skoj =fun"

I think that, that quick response was about the only thing to say directly to your post.

For now I'm going to shut up.
If I make long, short or humerous posts again would everyone please note... if you don't like my stuff you can i.d. it by the name at the top and skip down to the next post.

Hey...Model railroad's are FUN!

[jfugate]

I'm wondering if the discussion of Swedish ought to be taken to another new thread (off topic for this forum, though) or if you ought to go to private messages at this point. Nothing against you guys discussing Swedish, but at this point most of the posts have become this off-topic discussion.

Doesn't really have anything to do with my scenery mixture, so ....

BACK ON TOPIC ...
To address Lothar's question about the cement in the mix ... it does two things:

1. Gives the mix a nice grey color
2. Allows controlling the setting time ... the more cement the faster the mix sets up.

[Anonymous]

Thanks Tomas:

Two questions:
1. how do I pronounce those words?
2. where do I get the alternate keyboard?

[}:)][;)]

(I'm just jealous really 'cos Abba came home to you [sigh][:-,]

[loathar]

I just use plaster o paris and mix cheap craft paint in it. (green, brown,grey) Just my preferance. I might try putting some cement into the though. Does this add significant strength to the mix?

[Anonymous]

Hej ,
sparade den här sidan för framtida bruk ; ) - Swedish : )

Tåg = trains
skoj =fun
hej=hi
hej då =bye bye

Tomas
gothenburg
sweden

[Anonymous]

I was going to say that I wouldn't correct your grammar but...

Do you "hate" Sweden a bit less now? Yes, today is a nice day in Sweden and I'm a happy man...

I only have to play Abba and think of Agnetha and who'sit/what's'er-name and I'm a happy man... (and there's NOTHING sad about that [:P] ...better looking than Meatloaf's young lady).



Why aren't you putting a base colour (mud) into the mix wotsit ? [:)]
Has anyone tried colouring the mix thingy ? [:)]


What's the life span of the finished product so far please? doobry [xx(]

Does it travel well on modules or crack easily? thingumigig [xx(]

Sorry for the totally useless answer
Wasn't useless... gave me an excuse to work Abba into a thread... oh, and those weird words are stand in nouns.... which I know about 'cos I'm old ... so I had some English grammar thumped into me... by a Wel***eacher we all detested.

Any chance of you teaching me Swedish?? ...or would that be "Off Topic"?[:-,][%-)]
(Couldn't even learn French [D)]... but eventually found out why... my decoder isn't wired that way [:)][:)] ).

Have a nice day

[Anonymous]

I was thinking I should ask how you got on....
Do you "hate" Sweden a bit less now?

The thingy is called a "scoop"... looks like a measuring spoon from the wife's kitchen... hope you got it back before she found out...
If you don't know (or can't recall) what the English is then anything is called a "wotsit", a "thingy", a "doobry", a "thingumigig", a "doofer", a -blank expression and several clicks of the fingers.... doesn't work so well as text... guess you could use [%-)]... Don't know what the North American's would call it in their language though... [:-^][:-,][swg]

Hillside looks good. Why aren't you putting a base colour (mud) into the mix?

Don't know what vermaculite is but gardeners use tons of it in flower pots to reduce the weight and help drainage... so we can usually get great big bags of it at garden centres.

I noticed that you comment on protecting your eyes... YES DEFINITELY!

IF YOU ARE BREAKING DOWN FROM A LARGES BAG OF CEMENT... WEAR GOGGLES (CHEMICAL HANDLING GRADE), NOSE/MOUTH RESPIRATOR AND GLOVES MINIMUM. CHANGE ANY CLOTHES YOU GET HOT IN STRAIGHT AWAY AS WELL.

EXCESSIVE? MAYBE... THE STUFF BURNS...ANYTHING AND EVERYTHING... NO NOT WITH FLAMES... JUST A QUIET CHEMICAL BURN...WORSE THAN BAD SUNBURN IF YOU GET A BAD REACTION. IT WILL DO IT IN YOUR LUNGS AND INSIDE YOUR EYE SOCKETS BEHIND THE EYEBALL...
OKAY, IT'S NOT LIKE THAT IF YOU'RE MIXING CONCRETE IN THE YARD... WELL IT IS ...BUT YOU ARE OUT DOORS AND AT SHOVEL LENGTH. CLOSE UP IT IS VICIOUS.
IF YOU ARE STORING EITHER CEMENT OR THE MIX YOU NEED TO KEEP IT IN A PLASTIC TUB WITH AN AIRTIGHT LID. Personally I would keep the cement seperate and add it only when I'm working... saves any reaction in storage and wasting the other parts if the cement goes off... it has a pretty short shelf life.

Don't know how much you'd notice the effect in the mix but cement has an exothermic reaction whenever it gets near any water... just moisture... INCLUDING SWEAT...so you should be getting some heat off of the mix while it is setting.

Why am I doing my nut this time.... I worked (briefly) at a Blue Circle plant... the stuff nearly blinded me. Also, clearing old cement render that had not become chemically stable (in 80 years) on a hot humid day (so I sweated a lot) it took all the skin off my hands and arms. This was painful. No, I'm not accident prone, stupid or exceptionally allergic... we are used to the stuff outside in small quantities (a few grains per several cubic feet of air).. it is up close that it gets seriously personal.

Oh yes, because of the reaction with water... dust as much of it off... outdoors... as possible... [and remember... Model railroads are FUN!]

Has anyone tried colouring the mix?

What's the life span of the finished product so far please?

Does it travel well on modules or crack easily?

thanks for all the help/advice here.

[:D][:D][:D]

[electrolove]

QUOTE: Originally posted by rolleiman

QUOTE: Originally posted by electrolove

I think this little goodie needs a bump :) For the Swedish modellers on this forum.

Even for the Americans.. I haven't read through Joes clinic so it may be answered there..

1. What is Vermiculite? What does it do for the mix??
2. Is the cement there primarily as a coloring agent??

Jeff
[8D]

Vermiculite is a mineral that is very light. So the thing it does in the mix is to make the mix light.

The cement makes the mix a nice gray color instead of white, if you use more cement the mix dries faster. Less cement and it dries slower.

[rolleiman]

QUOTE: Originally posted by electrolove

I think this little goodie needs a bump :) For the Swedish modellers on this forum.

Even for the Americans.. I haven't read through Joes clinic so it may be answered there..

1. What is Vermiculite? What does it do for the mix??
2. Is the cement there primarily as a coloring agent??

Jeff
[8D]

[electrolove]

I think this little goodie needs a bump :) For the Swedish modellers on this forum.

[jfugate]

And by the way, once you know you like this mix and have a formula you like, you can premix several gallons of powder at a time and store it, all ready to use.

Make sure you get a large bucket with a lid to store it in, so it doesn't absorb moisture, otherwise it will get lumpy over time.

[jfugate]

electro:

Yep, it's the cement that makes it set up fast. It's also the cement that gives it its wonderful gray color, as opposed to the stark white of plaster.

I find the mix starts to thicken in about 15 minutes, but I keep a spray bottle handy and spray a half dozen good sprays into the bucket, stir in the water, and keep going with the re-thinned mixture.

Of course, you can control this to a certain degree by how much you mix. My typical batch is probably about 4 cups worth. I find I can mix and spread this in about 10-15 minutes and I'm all set for the next batch.

[electrolove]

I just tried the mix with no cement at all, just vermiculite and patching plaster. Working time is now at least 50 minutes. So it's pretty clear that cement is importent...

[electrolove]

Joe:

I used only a half part of cement this time and my working time is now around 10 minutes. After that it started to thicken and was hard to spread out with my putty knife. Is that your experience too?

[electrolove]

Thanks Joe. Good to hear that my experiences is like yours. I will wait a couple of days to let it fully dry and see if it cracks... I will also make a new batch with less cement and see what happens with the working time.

[jfugate]

One other thing, electro:

Once the mix completely dries, it shrinks. You may notice small cracks after a couple of days -- that's because of the shrinkage.

I find the other qualities of the mix to be ideal, so I put up with the shrinkage and cracks. Just come back in with a thinner one part cement 3 parts plaster mix and patch the cracks.

It's easy to patch the cracks this way, so don't be concerned over any cracks you may get. Just patch them!

[jfugate]

electro:

Yes, the mix takes a couple of days to dry completely, but does set up in about two hours.

And yes, as you surmised, the secret to altering the setup time is to vary the amount of cement in the mix ... more cement makes it set up quicker, less cement makes it set up slower.

Great postings ... I'm sure others are getting a lot out of this as well.

[electrolove]

Thanks Aggro, appreciated.

[AggroJones]

Nice!

[electrolove]

Joe:

Thanks for all the kind words. It really makes everything so much greater when a pro like you like my experiment. Thanks to everyone else as well.

I have some question for you Joe.

The mix will dry on the surface in about 2 hours. But it seems that my mix will take maybe 1-2 days to fully dry. Is that normal?

The mix sets up little to quick for me, should I decrease the cement part a little?

How strong is this mix when it's fully dry? Is it easy or hard to crack? I have not tested yet, but I will as soon it's fully dry [:D]

Yes, I like it as much as you do Joe. I can tell that this mix is MUCH easier to work with then plaster dipped paper towels. That was really a big mess, with paper towels, water and plaster everywhere. This mix is really only 2 steps. Mix & Use. And it's light as you said. And it will be even lighter when all the water is gone.

Feel free to ask questions. I did this for all of you!

[jfugate]

Wow, electro, very nice!

As you can see, the mix has a nice gray color to it, instead of the stark white of plaster. Even if you do need to drill holes for trees, you won't get the stark white plaster powder all over, but instead a dull gray powder. I find you can poke holes in the material with a sharp awl to plant trees in it.

You should also find the sample you mixed up is relatively light.

I'm interested in hearing more from you as to how you like the stuff. I'm sure not everyone will like this scenery mix, but I like it a lot!

[ukguy]

Very nicely detailed Electro and most informative, grest photos. Many thanks. Cant wait to see what you do with it on the layout.

Keep having fun,
Karl.

PS. yes it is called a scoop in English [:D]

[selector]

Good thoughts for you, EL. You sound like you are having FUNNNNN!!!!

[grandeman]

Very informative post electro. I can't wait until Sweden has a little Rocky mountain railroad action going on! [8D]

[electrolove]

I decided to try Joe Fugate's scenery plaster mixture and this is what I came up with.

I live in Sweden and the hard part for me was to find the right material. After many questions and a lot of thinking I found similar products here in Sweden. Not that easy but I did it. And I want to share it with you all, if it happens to be a Swede listening [:D]

Where did I get the material?

Vermiculite 1-2 mm, use 1 mm if you can find it. What a nightmare!

http://www.althea.se

It cost around 1-2 USD for 1 litre (10 SEK/liter) and looks like this.






Patching plaster. I found it at a wellknown store called COOP.

http://www.coop.se

It cost around 11-12 USD for 5 kg (89 SEK för 5 kg, kallas gipsbruk, danogips) and looks like this.






Cement, also found at COOP. It cost around 5-6 USD for 25 kg (45 SEK för 25 kg) and looks like this.






How do you mix it?

First of all, protect your eyes, you don't want plaster or cement powder in your eyes!

Use 4 parts of vermiculite, 3 parts of patching plaster and 1 part cement.



I don't know what this is called in english (scoop?), but I used it, and it worked.



Put the vermiculite, patching plaster and cement in a plastic box and shake well for a minute or two.



Mix it with 3-4 parts of water. You must try this out yourself. All I can say is that you want it thin, but not so thin that it drips. For me 3 and a half part of water was the right mix. If it runs, its too thin. Experiment!






How do you use it?

You can for example use cardboard strips (with 2" masking tape to fill the holes) as the scenery base. I found masking tape at Överskottsbolaget.

http://www.overskottsbolaget.se

Masking tape cost around 3-4 USD for 50 meters. (Maskerings tape 27 SEK för 50 meter) and looks like this.



Use a putty knife (also Överskottsbolaget, cost 1 USD) to spread it out in a 5 mm thick layer. After 2 hours you can make another layer, also 5 mm thick.



After the mix is nearly dry it looks like this.



Closeup inside the dry mix.






Conclusion

I really like the mix so far, even if I have not tried it on my layout yet. It's easy to mix, work with, I'm looking forward to do the rest.




What's the next step?

This is what I have done so far, if you want to read the rest. Go to this url.

http://www.trains.com/community/forum/topic.asp?TOPIC_ID=32122

A BIG thank you to Joe Fugate for great thinking and lots of inspiration.




Must tell you all about the cement. It's so funny [:D] Me and my son went to COOP to buy some candy. And there it was, cement! I decided to take it home on my bicycle because I had no car with me. Everything was going great, it took about 45 minutes to walk home. After 20 minutes it started to rain, heavy raining!!! And you all know what happens to cement when it mixes with water, PANIC!!! [banghead] But I was lucky that day. The paper bag around the cement was thick and it was still cement powder when I got home. [:D][:D][:D]