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QUOTE: Originally posted by TrainFreak409 QUOTE: Originally posted by gtirr "Which major American company will be the first to follow in Roco's footsteps?" If we are lucky, it will be Botchmann!!!!!!!!!!!!!! Am I the only one that ever praises Bachmann around here? It seems like it at times...
QUOTE: Originally posted by gtirr "Which major American company will be the first to follow in Roco's footsteps?" If we are lucky, it will be Botchmann!!!!!!!!!!!!!!
QUOTE: [i]...I wonder if they and other manufacturers may be discovering that they can no longer charge a premium and claim "German/Austrian build quality" as the reason for this - just because BMW, Mercedes et al do it it's not necessarily going to work with model trains.
Scott - Dispatcher, Norfolk Southern
Originally posted by pedromorgan i wish i could say this supprises me but it dosent. their stuff saw simply too expensive. £200 for a steam loco is too much. it dosent matter how detailed it is or how well it runs. even i cant justify spending £200 on a single loco. i understand marklin are in trouble too. this dosent supprise me as marklin and roco are practically bed fellows anyway. they didnt make the da***o china when they should have. {/quote) Peter - Something to appreciate is that in the States the list price of BLI, Tower 55, Precision, and other hightech steamers are already the equivalent sum of a Roco engine...and their detail level is no where near what Roco models offered! Roco highend stuff was truly plastic brass. As to escaping to China for cost-cutting, I've got to say that I've yet to see one hobby manufacturer go overseas and as a result cut or even stabilize their prices. Every company from the States who has done this has introduced far, far more expensive models than they were offering previously. In fact, model pricing following these overseas moves has increased in the past decade more than it had in the previous 20-25 years! Quality has improved, yes, but not enough to justify anything up to a quadrupling of prices. To me there seems to be a big question about current profit margins involved here. This is especially true when one sees how deeply discounted some of these items become after the initial feeding frenzy at MSRP ends. It might also be interesting to compare business practices in the past with what goes on in boardrooms today. When Lionel virtually went under in the 1930's, JCL and the other execs took an 80%+ cut in salary just to keep the company going. Do you think any big execs do that today...just check CNN! CNJ831 Reply Anonymous Member sinceApril 2003 305,205 posts Posted by Anonymous on Friday, July 15, 2005 8:55 AM "Which major American company will be the first to follow in Roco's footsteps?" If we are lucky, it will be Botchmann!!!!!!!!!!!!!! Reply Edit ATSFCLIFF Member sinceDecember 2002 From: SINGAPORE 246 posts Posted by ATSFCLIFF on Friday, July 15, 2005 7:40 AM Most European model train manufacturers are in trouble not becaus of 'decline of interest' but essentially because their production costs have gone up and so have their prices. A Roco or a Trix costs twice (maybe more) what you would pay for a Kato or Atlas. Hornby which took over a few companies will move their production to China where labor costs are cheaper. Atlas and others have also taken that road too to avoid out pricing their products. Cliff Cliff N Scale Layout: http://cliffordconceicao3310.fotopic.net/c328807.html Reply Anonymous Member sinceApril 2003 305,205 posts Posted by Anonymous on Friday, July 15, 2005 6:17 AM Anytime a company cannot pay it's people and make a profit doing something that we all enjoy in the hobby is a sad day. Reply Edit pedromorgan Member sinceJune 2004 From: London 313 posts Posted by pedromorgan on Friday, July 15, 2005 5:29 AM lima's difficulties were more to do with the massive manufacturing costs. roco was a very well run factory that relied very heavily on automation and should not have been subjected to the same financial conditions as lima. Peter the lima moulds are being sorted. it shouldnt be long now., Reply Anonymous Member sinceApril 2003 305,205 posts Posted by Anonymous on Friday, July 15, 2005 5:00 AM The Rivarossi Group went through similar financial maneuvers over the last four years and now we are waiting for Hornby -pic re-productions. Reply Edit pedromorgan Member sinceJune 2004 From: London 313 posts Posted by pedromorgan on Friday, July 15, 2005 4:10 AM i wish i could say this supprises me but it dosent. their stuff saw simply too expensive. £200 for a steam loco is too much. it dosent matter how detailed it is or how well it runs. even i cant justify spending £200 on a single loco. i understand marklin are in trouble too. this dosent supprise me as marklin and roco are practically bed fellows anyway. they didnt make the da***o china when they should have. i understand this to be a reorganisational bancruptcy. marklin has just sold their newest and most high tech factory because it simply wasnt being used. i predict this will be the start of a major overhaul of the industry in europe. Fleishmann wont be far behind. again simply because even amoungst serious modellers there isnt much of a market for £200+ locos. i dont think hornby are in a position for a takeover of roco as they are still dealing with lima and i dont think they have the capital. Kader/bachmann might think about it but their might be some compitition issues with their lilliput range clashing with roco in the euro market. Peter Morgan UK Reply Anonymous Member sinceApril 2003 305,205 posts Posted by Anonymous on Friday, July 15, 2005 12:10 AM QUOTE: But who will manufature Life-Like's Heritage American steam line now? [#ditto] Aggro, We steam fans are in trouble here. Those Roco drives were sweet..... Reply Edit AggroJones Member sinceJuly 2002 From: California 3,722 posts Posted by AggroJones on Thursday, July 14, 2005 11:57 PM But who will manufature Life-Like's Heritage American steam line now? "Being misunderstood is the fate of all true geniuses" EXPERIMENTATION TO BRING INNOVATION http://community.webshots.com/album/288541251nntnEK?start=588 Reply loathar Member sinceAugust 2004 From: Amish country Tenn. 10,027 posts Posted by loathar on Thursday, July 14, 2005 11:53 PM Hopefully it won't mean the same thing that it does here. The workers loose their pensions and benefits and the CEO gets a $50 millon golden parachute. I'm so sick of seeing our companies do that. Hopefully they'll be able to stay in bussiness. Reply MisterBeasley Member sinceDecember 2004 From: Bedford, MA, USA 21,481 posts Posted by MisterBeasley on Thursday, July 14, 2005 11:35 PM What does "file for bankruptcy" mean in Germany? As we've seen with a number of airlines in the US, it's often used here to give a company in debt trouble a chance to recover without being torn apart by creditors. It takes an iron man to play with a toy iron horse. Reply ereimer Member sinceJune 2003 From: CANADA 2,292 posts Posted by ereimer on Thursday, July 14, 2005 11:29 PM oh man , that's not good news . condolences to all the european prototype modelers out there [:(] Reply dinwitty Member sinceAugust 2004 2,844 posts Posted by dinwitty on Thursday, July 14, 2005 11:21 PM rising cost of the hobby? bring back the kit lokie Reply Anonymous Member sinceApril 2003 305,205 posts Posted by Anonymous on Thursday, July 14, 2005 9:45 PM ........................Roco? Reply Edit robengland Member sinceFebruary 2003 From: New Zealand 462 posts Posted by robengland on Thursday, July 14, 2005 7:01 PM Just shows the companies with the best products aren't necessarily the ones who thrive. Anyone who's seen their LocMaus or other DCC controls knows what good DCC interfaces should look like Rob Proud owner of the a website sharing my model railroading experiences, ideas and resources. Reply CNJ831 Member sinceApril 2001 From: US 3,150 posts Roco files for bankruptcy Posted by CNJ831 on Thursday, July 14, 2005 6:27 PM The biggest, and arguably finest, European model railroad company, Roco, will tomorrow file for bankruptcy (see the German language news release over on the Atlas Forum). They cite a progressive decline in interest in model trains in Germany as the cause but it would seem this very decline stems from Roco's spiraling MSRPs in recent years, which shut out many hobbyists. Sound familiar? Which major American company will be the first to follow in Roco's footsteps? CNJ831 Reply Subscriber & Member Login Login, or register today to interact in our online community, comment on articles, receive our newsletter, manage your account online and more! 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QUOTE: But who will manufature Life-Like's Heritage American steam line now?
"Being misunderstood is the fate of all true geniuses"
EXPERIMENTATION TO BRING INNOVATION
http://community.webshots.com/album/288541251nntnEK?start=588
It takes an iron man to play with a toy iron horse.