ballast glue

[EMDSD40]

Hello...I have nearly 900 feet of track and 100 turnouts. My track is old Code 100 Brass. Ipainted the track with Floquil railbrown, cleaned the railheads and ballasted it with gray Kitty Litter-no glue whatsoever. This track has been layed for nearly 18 years and I have had no problems. If you want to make changes, vacuum it up and do what you have to do. I have rebuilt sections of the layout through the years to accomadate new buildings, industries, whatever and this is has greatly simplified any changes. Try it, you gonna like it!!

[Anonymous]

We are in the process of laying ballast on the sidings of our club's HO layout. When we laid the coarse ballast on the mainline the "wet water sprayed on followed by 50/50 glue water" worked well, the results were excellent. The finer woodland scenes ballast is giving us issues. After everything is said and done the ballast dries with a hard shell that cracks and allows loose ballast underneath to come out.

It seems that the glue is not soaking all the way through. I tried thinning the glue mix more and soaking the ballast more thoroughly and neither option seems to help, does anyone have any tips or hints?

 

On a related note of the matt medium vs. Elmer’s,  I was recently asked to re-do a module for another club, the entire job came out nicely except the ballast, I was unable to remove the old, matt medium applied ballast without destroying the track and chose to leave the old stuff in place. On the other hand, our club’s layout uses Elmer’s and the track work takes minutes to modify due to the ease of ballast removal.

[mondotrains]

I've heard that matte glue is better than elmers in that is dries to a rubbery consistency, and hence quieter than elmers. My last layout was a LOT noisier once I ballasted with elmers. I'll definately be using matte glue next.

For the glue mixture I used +50% alcohol, 25% water and 25% glue mixed with a few drops of detergent. It doesn't take much glue to hold everything inplace, and the diluted glue keeps big blobs of it from accumulating in one place.

I'd pretty much guarantee that the plastic ties are immune to alcohol, as a LOT of people use alcohol to clean their tracks, and I have yet to hear of their rails coming up. :-)

Mark in Utah

 

Hi Mark,

The trouble with matte medium is that if you ever want to pull up the track for whatever reason, I'm told that matte medium won't dissolve away with water because it is water-proof once dry.  I therefore stick with the Elmer's/water mixture so I can simply spray water on a section being removed and the ballast will wash off the track/turnouts.

 

Hope this helps.

Mondo

 

 

[warhammerdriver]

I read somewhere that some people were having mold issues with certain brands of ballast.  I wonder if a few drops of concentrated Lysol in the glue mixture would affect the glue's ability to secure the ballast?

[jfugate]

Some combination of rubbing alcohol and diluted white glue works well. Once the track is ballasted, you need to weather it if you want it to look realistic:


(click to enlarge)

For more details on one approach to ballasting and weathering track, you can see the scenery FORUM CLINIC that I've done here:
http://siskiyou-railfan.net/e107_plugins/forum/forum_viewtopic.php?1270.13

[rexhea]

If you have more than a few feet of track and want to get your ballast laid down in less than 5 years, I would like to recommend using a plastic bottle with a flip out tip (spout) to apply both the wetting solution and the glue. First, drag the tip down the center of the track gently soaking the ballast between the rails and then go down the outside of the rails over the ties. Do not go beyond the ties or you will wash out your ballast. Follow this method with your gluing solution. Of course, if you use the alcohol/glue one-step, then you only have to do this once.

Make sure you have soaked your ballast for good depth and the capillary action will will move the glue thoughout the ballast.

Because of the weak glue solution, the tiny bit of discoloration to the ties will never be noticed. Hey! It works!

[:D] REX [:D]

[loathar]

I used that powdered glue once mixed in with ballast and sprayed it with WS matte spray. It dried really tuff (and loud) but the powdered glue left bare spots that I had to go over and fix.

[Anonymous]

I've heard that matte glue is better than elmers in that is dries to a rubbery consistency, and hence quieter than elmers. My last layout was a LOT noisier once I ballasted with elmers. I'll definately be using matte glue next.

For the glue mixture I used +50% alcohol, 25% water and 25% glue mixed with a few drops of detergent. It doesn't take much glue to hold everything inplace, and the diluted glue keeps big blobs of it from accumulating in one place.

I'd pretty much guarantee that the plastic ties are immune to alcohol, as a LOT of people use alcohol to clean their tracks, and I have yet to hear of their rails coming up. :-)

Mark in Utah

[loathar]

You can still use that brick of powdered glue if you crunch it up with a hammer and sift it through a strainer. DON'T put it in a food chopper to save time! You'll be buying a new chopper like I did. (what a mess!) Has anyone tried to paint the shoulders of the road bed with white glue first and then put the ballast down and wet it it with a glue spray?
It seems like no matter how careful I am I always knock some of the ballast off the shoulder and have to go back and fix it later.
loathar

[TBat55]

I'm going to try a 50:50 surface-tension-breaker followed by 50:50 Mod Podge & water. Mod Podge is a matte medium (meaning glue that drys FLAT not shiney) & is available at WalMart. Easier to find than Scenic Cement, cheaper. I didn't like Elmers or Carpenter Glue due to the shine. FYI, WalMart pharmacies will give you a FREE eye dropper that is twice the size of a regular eyedropper.
I'll try soap first, then alcohol, for pre-wetting. Maybe track plastic is unaffected by alcohol, but a lot of plastics and paints are not.
I wish our hobby was more scientific and less art in some areas. An example is roadbed: wish someone would setup a microphone, meter, and test track to say which is quieter. I'll setup an experiment for ballast and report later. Problem is, I only like Fine ballast and HO. Maybe Fine is worst case, maybe not.

[AntonioFP45]

Good, helpful posts!

Amazing variety of choices that almost make it hard to choose.

I'm inclined to try RRinker's alcohol/glue method.

Thanks!

[selector]

Not that my information is a quantum leap from anything you have seen above, I used Elmer's Carpenter's Glue, the slghtly yellow stuff, mixed approximately two tablespoons to about a cup and a half of water, with two or three drops of dish detergent added. That might seem like a very weak mixture...and you'd be right! However, that glue is very strong, and when dried was like a brick. Also, I used a spritz bottle which, although effective, is not a method I would recommend to anyone. Too much overspray, especially on the tracks (they must be wiped immediately). I will use a dropper next time....maybe an enema bag with hose and clamp if I get my wish and have lots of track to ballast. [:o)]

[Anonymous]

bjpmtravis,

Powdered ballast cement is readily available at LHS's that carry Woodland Scenics scenery material. My LHS ahs it on a rack right next to the small bags of coal and ballast.

I'll be it is pretty hard to find stuff like that online.

[MisterBeasley]

I bought a package of "pipettes" from the LHS, about 8 of them for 3 bucks. These are single-piece plastic eye-droppers made for modelling. They are great for dispensing the glue-water mixture very carefully. So far, I just clean them out after each use and I haven't even worn out one of them.

[ChessieFan13]

on our pike i tried the wet watermist and then dribbling white glue.....then tried alcohol mist and dribbling white glue and water......then tried alcohol mist then white glue with water and detergent that worked great...... vacumed the loose and found that i missed a spot so im gonna try glue cut with alcohol mmix......that seems like it will work great

[rrinker]

My advice, experiment on a test section and see what works best for you. I suspect the detergent/water didn;t work for me because our tap water is VERY hard - although I'm pretty sure I actually used some of my bottled water because I didn't want to run up tot he sink.

Oh, and I didn't thin the glue 70% with alcohol, I used 70% alcohol, the mix was about 50/50 witht he glue. Probably a little more glue and a little less alcohol. What is interesting about that is that when droppered onto the ballast, it dried quickly, but what was leftover int he paper cup I mixed it in stayed liquid for days. I certainly could have continued using the same batch at least the second day. Very handy if yo are in the middle of something and get called away, not that white glue is so expensive you'll go broke if you waste an ounce of it.

--Randy

[TBat55]

I've been researching ballasting posts. Several methods are used and seem to be based mostly on cost. Almost all say to pre-wet to break surface tension (allows glue to get into all the tiny spaces). If you ignore the ballast material (rock sizes, kitty litter, etc) you get these choices:

1. Pre-wet with alcohol and water (50:50 mix of 70% isopropyl rubbing and tap water)
2. Pre-wet with detergent and water (2 drops dish soap to 1 quart tap water)
3. Pre-mix powdered glue with the ballast
I had some, but can't find it. Unopened bag turned solid from cellar moisture.
4. Apply white glue and water (50:50 mix, glue that dries with matte finish)
5. Apply white glue and water (1 part glue to 4 parts water)
6. Don't pre-wet & apply 70% alcohol and glue
"White glue" can be WS Scenic Cement, Elmers, or Mod Podge matte medium.

So, pre-mix with either 50:50 alcohol or 2 drops dish soap and water, then apply 50:50 flat glue and water. Or do the one-step 70% alchol and glue.

Anybody have comments on the mix ratios or whether soap is better than alchohol? Does it really matter, and if so, why?

I want to do it right the first time. It's a lot of work; I don't care about the cost.

[cheese3]

I would like to know more about this powder mix

[rrinker]

I have a small test section I put together just to try things out. I ballasted two sections of track, one using the traditional 'wet water' witha couple drops of detergent in it, and the other I just thinned the white glue directly with 70% alcohol. The alcohol/glue worked 100% better than the 'wet water' method. So when it comes time to ballast the main layout, guess which way I'm going?

--Randy

[dehusman]

I place the ballast then mist it with a mix of water and liquid dish detergent (3 or 4 drops to a sprayer bottle of water). When the ballast is damp, I dribble on a 50-50 mix of white glue (Elmers) from a ketchup bottle (the plastic ones with a pointy nozzle). After that dries I mist it again and re-gle it to make sure its down. This was for a module so it was subject to more extreme handling than a layout. The foliage and ballast stayed in place in the back of a pickup truck doing 75 down the interstate (75 is the speed limit in Nebraska).

Dave H.

[AggroJones]

After you get the ballast shaped perfectly, spray 50/50 rubbing alcohol/water over everthing. Saturate it good. Use a medicine dropper to drip white glue and water over the ballast. Make sure you use plenty to penetrate it completely until the shoulders bleed. I coat the rail heads with baby oil before applying the white glue mix to make it easier to clean afterwards.

[Anonymous]

After 2 1/2 years of building, I am ready to start laying ballast.
The last time I did this there was a dry glue product that you mixed in with the ballast before it was laid. The, after the ballast was laid, a spray with "wet water" was all it took. The glue set up in the ballast, and everything stayed where you put it.
I can't find the dry glue.
Anyone have any ideas?

Thanks.
Bruce Travis