derailment problems

[Anonymous]

WOW guys thanks to all. It looks like I have a project for the weekend. Maybe for fathers day I might get that second loco and give that a try also.
thanks again Ill keep you all posted on the derails
Dutch

[Anonymous]

Since the major problems didn't start until after the track was glued into place, survey the track making sure that each section is glued properly. ie. If the trackage is atlas code 80 flexitrack, each section is pretty long so you have to ensure that the glue is not only securing each or only one end of the track leaving the middle unstable. This will cause a see-saw effect as the train passes over and even though this might not be noticable when you look at it, in scale a train can/will be affected both with derailments and short circuit.
Richie

[CraigN]

If your problem is at a track joint, check to see if the rails go into the railjoiners. Sometimes you may be laying a rail on top of the joiner and not in the joiner. It is easy to do with N scale.

Also, did you happen to use a couple nails to hold the track down while you were waiting for the glue to dry? If you drive a nail in to far it will pull the rail out of gauge and cause derailments.

[jfugate]

Most commercial turnouts do not follow the NMRA standards exactly around the points and the frog, so derailments can happen with some locos and rolling stock.

As stated, it pays to get an NMRA guage and check that wheels are in guage and to check the turnouts. MR ran an article a couple years ago on commercial turnouts and how they conformed to the NMRA specs and no commercial turnout was perfect at the frog and points.

It also helps to try other locos as mentioned to see if the culprit is the loco. The ideal would be to have some other kind of loco and a second one of the problem loco. Then if the second loco also derailed, then it's a good bet its the loco somehow.

[lesterperry]

I quess I will throw in my 2 cents worth (Actually not woth a penny). I have found very little problems with wheel guage on rolling stock. I have never had wheel guage problem with Locomotives.
Some of the things I have found are a slight dip or rise in ONE rail.This will cause derail one way but not the other. Most of the time you will find it happens at the same place all the time. Pick a problem spot to comcentrate on and fix it (one at a time). I use may pocket knief as a wedge & slide it under the tie to raise the rail run Loco through it se if it helps, push it in further to raise more or pull it out to lower. One thing I just thought of if your loco has traction tires and has it on one side only it can pull its self off of the track under a load. If it is only one car it is the car if it is more than one car at same place it is the track. If car then check the truck. It may be to tight or to loose. I useualy make truck on one end as tight as I can and still turn freely to stableize the car and leave the other a littl loose to help in tracking. These are some general ideas I need more information to go further.

[tstage]

I wonder fellas. Since GhsScorp didn't have the problem till AFTER he glued down his track, the problem might lie with excess adhesive being stuck on the inside flange of the track. (As small as N-gauge is, it probably wouldn't take much.) Just a guess.

That still doesn't explain why it happens more in one direction than the other. GhsScorp, what kind of adhesive did you use to glue down your track? Did you spread it out evenly with a puddy knife before you placed it on the roadbed? (If you don't, adhesive can ooze up through the ties.)

Also, you mentioned that the derailments aren't "spot specific". Does that mean it derails on straight sections of track, as well as curves and turnouts? This info would be helpful to know to pin point the problem.

Tom

[Anonymous]

I think the problem might be the gluing of the track, as you mentioned that the trains ran fine until you glued the track down.

Go over the track very carefully and look for spots where glue / ballast / crud has come up close to the rails. This may be bumping the wheels off the rails. Nothing should extend up above the ties on the track.

Again, go over the track, but this time using a straight edge. Check it both lengthwise and across the rails looking for high and low spots on the rails, as well as small twists in the rails. Offsets by as little as the thickness of 22 gauge wire can screw up your track at HO gauge, so at N gauge you have to be especially careful.

This is the tedius part of trackwork, but if the trains won't run, then all other work is in vain.

Mark in Utah

[oleirish]

[2c] I have found that a coupler guage and steel wheels have improved my fleet to where de-railments do not happen vary often[^]
JIM

[cwclark]

all of the above are great ways to find out your problem... one more tip on the turnouts and any crossovers ..take a jeweler's file and file down the flangeways at both ends of the frog ..sometimes there is a "hump" from the manufacturing process at these locations which cause derailments, especially on atlas track equipment....chuck

[Pruitt]

The most important you can have here is an NMRA gauge. With it you can check your track for gauge problems, your turnouts for proper flangewidths, distance between points, point to stock rail clearance, wheel gauge, etc.

The first thing I would do is check the wheel gauge on the loco. Adjust the wheel gauge as necessary, and make sure the wheels on each side of each truck are in line. If the wheels are all in gauge but all axles are not holding the wheels the same distance from the sideframes, then the truck as a whole is out of gauge, and the offset axle(s) need to be corrected. On the old Athearns, which I ran a lot before I switched to steam, all you had to do was remove the axle from the truck and hold onto the axle with one hand while twisting and pulling or pushing on the wheel you wanted to adjust. To adjust centering of the entire axle, you just did one wheel at a time. Also check for catches / binding in the truck swing. You may have to set the loco on a smooth surface (kitchen table or some such) to find any swing problems - holding the loco in your hand puts the trucks in a different position than when the loco weight is on them.

After correcting the wheel / truck gauge on the loco, run it both directions over the entire layout a few times. Place a marker of some sort wherever it derails, each time (even if that spot already has a marker). Also, watch the loco wheels on the track very closely as it passes over a trouble spot. Look for a wheel climbing the rail, or a gap appearing between the wheel tread and the rail head. Also look for a sudden motion of the truck clockwise or counter-clockwise, and make a note of what you see. You'll probably find that there are a few spots where most of the derailments occur. Pick the one with the most markers and examine the track closely with the NMRA gauge (it comes with instructions). Adjust the track as necessary. Now move on to the next worst spot.

After adjusting the two or three worst spots, run the loco again. Hopefully it won't derail at those adjusted spots, and you've just eliminated the lion's share of your problems! Now move on to the other spots. But if the loco still derails at the adjusted spots, go back over them again and readjust. If the spot still has trouble but you'd swear the track is good, take out a section and re-lay it. I've had to do that once or twice, and the problem I couldn't find went away. I never did figure out what the problem was.

Once the loco is reliably glued to the rails (figuratively speaking), go through each freight car that shows problems and treat it the same as you did the loco. Pretty quick you should have nearly derailment-free operation.

One last thing - sometimes, no matter what you do, a car just won't stay on the rails. I had one car - a hopper - like that. I made all the proper adjustments and everything checked good, but that darned thing just didn't like the rails! I finally just pulled it from service. At some point it will become a part of the scenery - the remnants of a train wreck.

You didn't say if you use knuckle couplers or not. If so, check the height gauge, centering and so on on all of them. If not, try to convert if your budget allows. The horn hooks are major derailment culprits - they exert a constant side-force on the car body or trucks (depending on how they're mounted). Another good thing, if you can afford to do it, is replace the stock wheels with turned metal wheels. Several companies make good replacement wheel sets. I opt to replace the entire truck with a sprung truck. On my trackwork, the non-rigid sideframes seem to help reduce derailments.

As a whole, this all isn't as tedious or as complex as it may sound, and the results will more than pay for the time expended. Nothing kills train running fun faster than continual derailments, I think. A little time and patience, and you'll nearly forget what a derailment is!

[Anonymous]

Perhaps it's the locomotive's coupler/truck (insufficient lateral swing) that's causing the problem.
Newer three axle locos will run problem free on 18/22" radius until you add cars.
What 's your loco and track radius?
Lot's of diesels tolerate ir-regular track arrangements but the true test comes when you
operate steam. They will find track imperfections that you thought never existed.

[Don Gibson]

START with one engine and find out why it is having problems - either direction.
THEN add one car - at a time - to isolate the problem.

CARS UNCOUPLE? Why are they letting go? Clasp's uneven? Plastic whisker springs?

EVERY Derailment has a cause - and sticking your nose into it is the only way.
Your computer won't be much help.

[Anonymous]

Each one of my 25 engines is a different critter. Some run clockwise, while others will only run the other way. I even had a friend of mine bring over a couple of his engines to see how they ran and found that one would only work well one way and the other the other way. You tell me...

trainluver1

[grandeman]

This might be a good excuse to buy another loco to determine which is at fault, the loco or the track.

[Anonymous]

I have gone over the track and cant find any gaps that are that big the track is atlas code 80 N scale. as far as spicific spots that it happens no not realy. When I first laied out the track it ran great so I went ahead and glued it down and now I keep having these problems I thought it might be the coulpers but the loco by its self wont run with out problems if i run it coutner colock wise

[Anonymous]

Are the derailments at random locations or site-specific, such as at a particular track joint or crossover? See if you can pinpoint where they are occurring on the layout. This may give you a clue as to a joint out of alignment or a high spot that is causing the couplers to lift apart. I found it helpful to keep a log of locations. I used a diagram of the layout, mark each derail with a little red x or whatever. After a short time simply count up the marks and see where most of them are occurring. You'll soon see a pattern if there is one.

[selector]

First, is is plastic bed track, like snap track or EZ Track?

Look for gaps larger than 2mm (1/32")or misalignment in curves. Locos with many/large drivers don't like curves with radii smaller than 18", and many would argue that 22" is cutting it close.

Get down to eye-level, and have a look at the tracks wherever they meet, or are joined. Mismatches in height, misaligned rails, and gaps are likely causes.

Another could be your loco and rolling stock. If the wheels are not in guage, they will give you all sorts of fits. They will want to hop out of the rails if the flanges are too wide apart, especially on curves.

Most derailments happen at crossovers and turnouts, and the culprit is often the points (file them to sharpen them so that the flanges don't bump up and ride over them) or the small intermediate rails in crossovers. Sometimes, the air hose that hangs down by the coupler gets hung up, instead, on these short rail segments.

Look at your cars from the side...all of them, on the flattest track you have. Notice any height variation or disparity from coupler to coupler? You might need to shim couplers in order to get them to meet properly. If not, those bumps in the rails that we looked for above will release the couplers, more so in one direction that the other.

Patience, me Son, You'll get it right. I know what you are experiencing because I went through it, especially the points problems. [:D]

[Anonymous]

I'm having problems with derailments on my layout. I can run my loco colckwise all day and no problems then I add cars and it wont make one lap with out the cars uncupling. If I run the loco counter clockwise it wont make a full lap. I cant seem to narrow down where the problem is or what might be causing the problems. any help would be great
thanks,