This stuff can be overwhelming if you think about it.

[Anonymous]

Joe - another similar way to go is build a module at a time, and have just a cheapo loop of track going around the walls connecting both ends - it doesn't even have to be modules, just enough to support the weight of a train.

This way, you only have to do even the carpentry for one module at a time.

I'm probably going to build a 2 x 8 "module" in this fashion. If I add more to it later, great. If not, great. But I'll have a loop of track attached to it so I could be running trains from as close to day 1 as possible.

[jfugate]

Doug (and others)

Thanks for the compliments on the bridge. I'm pleased with how it turned out, and it's a real highlight of the layout.

In the vein of busting large layout projects up into affordable chunks ... one of the things I've thought of doing were I starting over (and getting older) would be to give serious consideration to building my next layout using a sort of modular - David Barrow domino technique.

In other words, bust the layout design up into independent modules 2x4 to 2x6 in size, and build the layout in comfort at the workbench, one module at a time. It would allow you to do a little bit of benchwork, little bit of trackwork, little bit of wiring, little bit of scenery, little bit of detailing. The downside, of course, is it would take longer to get enough done that you could run trains.

You could, I suppose, also fill the room full of benchwork modules, then pull a module at a time and lay track in comfort at the workbench, put the module back, then move on to the next one. Nothing says you *have* to totally complete the module before you put it back in place in the layout room.

But the basic idea would work even if you don't have space right now. You could build a couple modules for your eventual dream layout. Or even build your dream layout this way once you do have your space.

[Doug Goulbourn]

That's the great thing about our hobby; you work at your own pace. So what if you don't get that structure finished in an evening? As was said, sometimes even the "shake-the-box" kits can take time as one decides on a paint scheme or possibly a slight kit-ba***o personalize the model. The whole point is to have fun.

Doug

P.S. Joe, that is a great rendering of that bridge. I've enjoyed your work in the model press for some time now and have always found it interesting and inspiring.

[robengland]

My wife gave me trackage rights in the study so I can move up from the cold damp basement. I'm going from a one-car-garage space to a 9x11 room that i have to share with desk, computer etc. And I'm glad of the reduced space. The larger layout downstairs has ceiling, backdrop, lighting, workbench, shelving, benchwork, most of the track laid, wiring, DCC CTC.... but the project was just getting bigger and bigger. I'm an impatient kind of guy: much as I enjoy the doing I also want to have results. So a nice little round-the-room shelf layout in the study is looking much more achievable, even if there are some tough compromises to get there.

It will be doubly achievable because it is so accessable now. The basement is accessable only from outside, so going down there is something of an expedition, especially now in our winter when those southerlies come straight from the Pole and hammer against the garage door. In the study I will be able to pop in for 15 minutes any time. If I can't sleep I can slip down there.... I built a couple of buildings on a table in the porch and it was remarkable how much i got done just snatching a few minutes here and there.

Something to think about. Even if the layout is in a less accessable place, consider having a workbench somewhere in tha family areas.

[Jetrock]

QUOTE: Just how much money are american college students spending on beer these days anyways (especially considering most of them are still not of legal drinking age to begin with) ???

I wouldn't know--I'm 36, and my undergrad days were quite a while back. I had no trouble at all securing beer (as well as more potent fluids and substances) while under 21. Things might be different now, but somehow I doubt it.

Andrew: We are not in disagreement--we both suggested building a switching layout, as well as prioritizing expenditures. But I would maintain that there are better times than other to get into a hobby--when one has more money, free time, and attention. A college student typically has a shortage of all three, but of course that doesn't rule out the possibility of hobbies. I had my share of hobbies in college (other than figuring out ways to get booze when I was under 21) but often had to choose between hobbies and schoolwork. If I chose the hobbies too often, my schoolwork suffered.

[SpaceMouse]

I can't imagine a layout having a layout in my college days. Too many things going on. And of course there were the women. [:-^]

[chateauricher]

QUOTE: Originally posted by Jetrock
[college students] can afford to start a small shelf layout [...] by going easy on the beer budget for a couple of weeks.

Just how much money are american college students spending on beer these days anyways (especially considering most of them are still not of legal drinking age to begin with) ??? [:O]

[Anonymous]

jetrock- I'm kinda have to disagree. I'm allowed to right? There's really no bad time to get into the hobby. it's just about making choices and budgeting. I know the best time to buy stuff for me is in the summer. There's usually to much that needs my money in the school year that i try and stock up on kits during the summer, when i have some cash lying around.i know i won't build them right away, i'll be out by the pool, but when school starts I know that I'll have a few kits to distract me from my work.

There is always going to be a space issue with a college student. Theres two ways to get around this the first was mention about and that is build a small switching layout. The other is join a club or a round robin. It's a great way to learn the skills for an upcoming layout while stilll be in the hobby. Another option and this is dependant on your parents and how far away they live is possibly build a layout in your parents house. my parents are gracious enough to allow me to build a layout in their basement. For this I pay them back by doing yard work and keeping my portion of the basement clean. I get a layout, they get their lawn mowed and we both end up with a clean basement. Since they have seen the work i have put into this house wheen they decide to movee out they will ask me if i want to buy the house off of them before they put it on the market. So maybe i won't ever have to move my layout.

So there's so much to this hobby that you can do without a layout. You can buy CAD-rail or a program of the like. Design as many layouts as you want and run virtual trains on it. Wiith enough trail and error when you finally do have the place you can have a trackplan that is much less problamatic then if you jumped right in and learned from your mistakes. There's not much wasted in a virtual railroad. This is a great hobby.
Andrew

[Jetrock]

I always paint plastic kits--the closest thing to an exception is this one Walthers Cornerstone kit I got that, unbeknownst to me, has pre-painted windows and doors, and I'm still weathering the walls with an ink wash and under-eave crud. I have yet to see plastic molded in "realistic colors" that I can live with.

One advantage of using an airbrush or spray paint is that it dries quickly--and an advantage of the incendiary-hot summer months here in Sacramento is that anything I leave to dry in the garage gets baked on in short order!

College is a bad time to try to get into model railroading, but one can afford to start a small shelf layout (1x4 or 1x6 feet, in HO or N) that can be easily fit into a dorm room and afforded by going easy on the beer budget for a couple of weeks.

[davekelly]

Chip,

I'd love it if some of the sponsers would pay me for being an ad for the World's Greatest Hobby. Being involved since the mid 70's and with my dad doing the MRR thing before me I truly believe that this is a great hobby made up of the world's greatest people.

That's my story and I'm sticking to it!

Dave

(truth be told - there are lots of threads out there about how expensive this hobby is getting. Your story shows that cost per hour can be quite low. Those without funds or room can spend time building structures and detailing other kits for that "dream layout of the future" without killing themselves financially).

[Anonymous]

trainluver:
Take a look at Progressive lenses. I need trifocals. I tried regular ones to start with. Didn't work. Couldn't get used to them, and they were dangerous for me.
(boat captain, jumping between docks and boats, and boat to boat at sea. Distance judgement is screwed up if you jump from one section to the other)
Took me about two weeks to get used to the Progressives.

doanster:
Take a look at card modeling. If you have access to a computer and printer, you can make some surprisingly nice models. Many are free on the internet. Download them, cut them out, glue'm together. Can't get much cheaper than that. They always make good place holders on the layout ,till you build something else, too. I have several on the layout, and you can't tell the difference between the kits, and them, at any distance.
Old time layouts used them alot
Look around the forums, you'll find people doing amaing things with a little cardboard, paint, and whatever happens to be laying about. Main thing is just do it. The more you do it, the better you get at it! Have fun!!

[howmus]

Hey Chip! Remember the journey is where the fun is not the destination. While I like to see results, I learned long ago that the real fun was making the model or hand laying track & building switches from code 70 track, etc. Scratchbuilding stuff usually ended up with me throwing more away than I kept, but it sure has been fun. I have been working on an Ice House industry next to a 150' mountain (Southern Tier New York) since last fall. The main building is scratch built from scale lumber cut on my Micro Mark table saw. I have at least 200 hours into the diorama so far and I would say it will take another 100 hours to finish. Been having fun!!!!! Take your time and enjoy the hobby.

P.S. I should be able to post some of the progress next weekend in the photo fun thread. The Ice House got a cote of Dull Cote 15 minutes ago.

[JohnT14808]

Talk about overwhelming...... Last Saturday, the other club member working on his section of the layout really put the pressure on me. He handed me his Dremel tool and told me to cut the track out where MY trestle is going to fit....so I did. Now I HAVE to get the darn thing finished. There is this 18 inch HOLE in the spur laeding to his lumber mill project.
Actually, it was fun to get the temporary track out of there. I spent the rest of my time on Saturday chopping out old scenery and getting the area prepped for a sealer coat of 'something' to seal up the area where the water is going to be. I'll try to get some pictures to post.

[ereimer]

QUOTE: Originally posted by jfugate
If you wait until you have the space, then you'll have your hands full trying to build a layout *and* build details for it as well. Better to have put the time you have now to good use!

DOH ! you couldn't have told me that 20 years ago huh ?

[cheese3]

QUOTE: Originally posted by Jetrock

Time builds skill and speed. Why is this kit taking two weeks?

My kits tend to have two speeds--I crank them out in an evening or I stop halfway through and they remain unfinished for months.

[#ditto]

[SpaceMouse]

QUOTE: Originally posted by davekelly

Joe,

I love that bridge. Well done!! I also think you did an excellent job modeling the water - looks like a real river from here!!

Chip,

Yup sometimes the "cheapie" kits can take the longest. That is one of the reasons I love DPM structures. With all the talk about the increasing cost of this hobby - do a little test. Take the cost of the lifelike kit you are working on. Add in the cost of the paints, brushes etc. Now divide that by the number of hours you've worked on it. Compare that with going to a movie or a ball game. The hobby doesn't cost that much sometimes - does it?

(I'm totally ignoring the way cool feeling one gets when one completes a structure kit and spends some time painting and weathering it - what's that line? DPM kit $12.00, paint $5.00, brush $2.00 - feeling of great accomplishment and self satisfaction - priceless!).

Dave

So Dave, how much do you charge for a commercial for the "Worlds Greatest Hobby"?

[davekelly]

Joe,

I love that bridge. Well done!! I also think you did an excellent job modeling the water - looks like a real river from here!!

Chip,

Yup sometimes the "cheapie" kits can take the longest. That is one of the reasons I love DPM structures. With all the talk about the increasing cost of this hobby - do a little test. Take the cost of the lifelike kit you are working on. Add in the cost of the paints, brushes etc. Now divide that by the number of hours you've worked on it. Compare that with going to a movie or a ball game. The hobby doesn't cost that much sometimes - does it?

(I'm totally ignoring the way cool feeling one gets when one completes a structure kit and spends some time painting and weathering it - what's that line? DPM kit $12.00, paint $5.00, brush $2.00 - feeling of great accomplishment and self satisfaction - priceless!).

Dave

[ukguy]

Like some of you I think I have more unfinished stuff lying around than finished but I cannot agree with Joe more. Even if you dont have a layout yet, building the structures or weathering rolling stock is an excellent and very rewarding way to spend your time(and a little money) and still participate in the hobby. I've even picked up a few kits and put them together for my NEXT layout and I havent finished this one yet.
Oh well "time waits for no man" so they say, make the most of it.

Have fun & be safe.
Karl.

[jeffshultz]

My father-in-law has a couple of those lighted magnifying lens things that look like a workbench lamp with a window in the middle.

I've got one of those visor things that looks like a welders mask that they ran out of materials for.

[Anonymous]

QUOTE: Originally posted by SpaceMouse

QUOTE: Originally posted by trainluver1

My biggest problem is that my eyes are starting to wear out. My eye doctor tried to tell me I needed bifocals the last time I was in his office but, I said nah. I can't deal with bifocal. Now I'm wishing I'd listened...

I have bifocals that I got a couple years ago, but I don't use them for modeling. I use a pair of off the rack reading glasses that are stronger than my prescription. Thy cost $10 at WallyWorld and aare better than my prescription glasses for modeling.

"Hey Chip".

I've also been using a magnifying glass under a real bright light, and am considering investing in a lighted magnifyer that clamps onto the side of my work table...

trainluver1

[SpaceMouse]

QUOTE: Originally posted by trainluver1

My biggest problem is that my eyes are starting to wear out. My eye doctor tried to tell me I needed bifocals the last time I was in his office but, I said nah. I can't deal with bifocal. Now I'm wishing I'd listened...

I have bifocals that I got a couple years ago, but I don't use them for modeling. I use a pair of off the rack reading glasses that are stronger than my prescription. Thy cost $10 at WallyWorld and aare better than my prescription glasses for modeling.

[Anonymous]

I don't have the patients I once did either Mr. Space Mouse, but I still manage to get things done in a day or two if I can. My biggest problem is that my eyes are starting to wear out. My eye doctor tried to tell me I needed bifocals the last time I was in his office but, I said nah. I can't deal with bifocal. Now I'm wishing I'd listened...

The hardest model on my layout was the Atlas switching tower that I built a couple of months ago. Man, I don't ever want to have to do anything like that again!. That little b-----d took me four days, and I think of that every time I look at it.

I use to build wooden models from scratch just to show off and show people the kind of work I could do, most of which were various 1/6 scale guns, assault rifles, pistols, heavy machine guns and so forth, but not anymore...

Good luck to you Chip. Hope you get it all finished like you want it.

Trainluver1

[jfugate]

doanster:

Then decide on what you would build if you had some space, and start making models to put on it. Structures and rolling stock are fairly cheap. If you have more funds, then detailing a loco or two would be good.

If you wait until you have the space, then you'll have your hands full trying to build a layout *and* build details for it as well. Better to have put the time you have now to good use!

[doanster]

Hmm... at least you guys are lucky enough to actually have something physical to work with. I am a poor university student interested in the hobby since childhood and still have no layout! :'( .... sorry to wreck the mood guys haha

[jfugate]

Chip:

The birds were resting on the prototype bridge and decided to "head for the hills" when this noisey mechanical beastie started to roll under them, blowing hot stinky air all over them from below!

[SpaceMouse]

Thanks guys,

Chuck,

The part about getting old, well that's not very encouraging.

Joe,

Great pictures. How'd you get the flock of mini-birds to fly over?

[jfugate]

Welcome to the hobby reality ... if you want to do a good job, even plastic kits can take time.

I spend the better part of a year's worth of evenings (off and on, did other things too) to meticiously kitbash a couple of bridge spans from Central Valley kits to get this prototype-based bridge:

(click to enlarge)

Did lots of cutting, fitting, and a little reworking of things over that time. Well detailed and well built models *take time*. That's why if you don't have a layout yet, one of the best things you can be doing is *building things* you think you will need when you do finally get the space.

BTW, here's a photo of the prototype (taken from the opposite end of the bridge):

(click to enlarge)

[cwclark]

if you think the lifelike kits are a pain...try one from model power ..you have to drill your own holes with a pin vise for most of the parts to fit...you asked why it takes so long to do these kits and the like?...just look in the MRR mag and look at the guys that are featured...all the guys in it are old guys..it took them that long before they could say their layout was finished enough to be presented in the magazine...[:D] chuck

[tstage]

Chip,

I pretty much take the same pains as you do. I always paint the kit a different color than what came with it and I always spend more time painting it than actually putting it together. (Except for my coaling tower.)

One of my very first kit was a Walthers water tower. No joke, Chip. I probably put in 12 hours alone just pain-stakingly hand painting and retouching it up. It's one of my wife's favorite pieces on the layout. Now I just have to get up the nerve to weather it sometime.

Tom