Scott - Dispatcher, Norfolk Southern
QUOTE: Originally posted by FiremanLA thats a great point ! i wouldnt have thought of it. Of course! Part of the demographic shift in model railroaders (relative age , i mean) tracks the demographic shift in society at large.......to me this means that the shift is not as alarming as it may appear! by the way, once again ask.......if the hobby is declining why do products and manufacturers proliferate? or is that speculative? another aside.....ever hear that "liars figure and figures lie?"...im not suggesting that any one is lying......but interpretation of figures is a tricky business...but the amount of figures and data presented is impressive. Some one has done some home work, there...........but once again...why so many manufacturers willing to risk their dollars on a 'shrinking' market? no one has adressed that one yet, as far as i can see ...pretty compelling data id say. Entrepenuers are not normally in the habit of chasing dead end investments! There may be a good explanation, but i am waiting to hear it.
QUOTE: Originally posted by bcawthon Sure, back in the pre-WWII years, the hobby was composed of somewhat younger men; it was a new hobby. Especially HO, which allowed the creation of a model railroad as we think of it today. But, if you look back at the photos of the legends of model railroading when they were doing their best work, you won't find a peach-fuzzed face among them.
Simon Modelling CB&Q and Wabash See my slowly evolving layout on my picturetrail site http://www.picturetrail.com/simontrains and our videos at http://www.youtube.com/user/MrCrispybake?feature=mhum
QUOTE: Originally posted by HighIron2003ar I am going to take one paragraph and rant about today's products and how they are offered. I recently pre ordered some products to the factory by a deadline because they might not be availible after a deadline. Or worse not produced at all due to too few orders. This is not fair to the majority of modelers. Take the walthers barge situation for example.. They made these for a few years then "Retired" recent MR issues related to sea based railroading cause much interest in these kits that are no longer being produced. I sold my barge set on ebay as I dont have the room for twice.. no.. more than twice the orginal retail MSRP of both Barge and Float. Nice profit to me but Walthers can see this post and take note that they need to start making these kits again. The bidding wars on Ebay goes to the one with the most dollars.. not the average hobby person who just needs a barge.
QUOTE: Well, here we go again Paul...
QUOTE: Yes, I've already agreed that the printed news media is suffering from TV and the Internet and I acknowledge the sources you cite regarding exactly that. But where does it say that this applies to technical, craft, or instructional magazines?
QUOTE: I could make all sorts of claims about MR's readership or non-subscribers but that's pointless. Without some sort of hard numerical evidence such claims become meaningless speculation.
QUOTE: As Joe F. has also indicated above and I've said as well, the Internet is not nearly the great influence in our particular hobby some would like to make it appear.
QUOTE: Nor has it so drastically changed the ways of hobbyists that all previous and current statisical material regarding the hobby's make-up has suddenly become invalid.
QUOTE: Past MR surveys, circulation figures, et al. are still the best ways to evaluate what is happening in model railroading.
QUOTE: As to the productions runs question, the total number of DL-109's made with New Haven markings was cited on the NHT&HA webpage.
QUOTE: Obscure prototype or not, I see no reason to believe that run would not have been a typical example of other limited runs.
QUOTE: Reaching a wrong conclusion based on one or two trends is quite possible. Doing so using ten or more reduces that probability to almost nil.
Joe Fugate Modeling the 1980s SP Siskiyou Line in southern Oregon
QUOTE: There you go again, Paul, a long post with not a single statistical fact or figure to bolster your arguments...just more unsupported opinion.
QUOTE: You brought the Internet into this discussion, not I. I only replied to your statement that, "Internet use is a big problem with periodical publications..." Since YOU brought it up, why don't YOU provide the hard numbers how it's affected MR's circulation.
QUOTE: There were no anonymous suverys cited by me. I based my age figures on decades of MR published data (the best source available in the hobby) and Joe Fugate, who posted the facts re the gov. survey some days ago, posts the link once again.
QUOTE: What it does still boil down to a very great many, and perhaps even a majority of hobbyists, are not actively on-line nor have left MR to go there.
QUOTE: So the NMRA is composed of old guys and isn't relevant...because you say so. I agree, the organization is fading but it's just as much a cross section of hobbyists as any other group, club, or organization out there and its figures just as applicable. If you don't think so, let's see valid representational figures from groups you feel are.
QUOTE: You say spare you the low production numbers for the DL-109. However, it is probably THE ONLY MODEL for which some sort of numbers can actually be found. I expect they are rather typical of most of today's limited runs (certain popular late model diesels possibly do rather better). If they aren't typical, please show us all your figures that prove otherwise.
QUOTE: I'm not really a gloom-and-doomer. I'm a longtime hobbyist whose eyes are wide open to the obvious trends that have surfaced in our beloved hobby over the past decade or so.