Weathering Trepidation

[Anonymous]

So I have a bunch of Rolling Stock (17 pieces. A small collection by some standards), and three loco's (2-6-0, 4-6-2, and GP7..aka the motley crew). I have looked in awe at Aggrojones' work, shaking my head at the incredible job he has done weathering his loco's and rolling stock. I personally see him as king of weathering.

All of my rolling stock and loco's are pristine and like new out of the box. I want to weather them, but I'm afraid to take the plunge. I'm afraid of botching it up. Has any else had this trepidation about weathering? How did you get over it? Did you just dive in? Were you successful on your first go round or did you ruin a perfectly good piece of rolling stock...or worse a loco?

I guess I need a little push and a pep talk to get me going.

Trevor

[MAbruce]

Oh yes, I can relate.

I started weathering my cheapest rolling stock first. That way, if I screwed up, the loss would be minimal. I slowly worked up to some of my more pricey rolling stock (keep in mind that I don’t own any really expensive stuff). In then end, I have yet to really foul anything up – but it’s bound to happen. You just have to accept it.

To this day I still have not attempted any weathering on my Locos. And it’s not like I have expensive Kato’s either… It’s just that my skills still need additional developing before I take it that far.

[eng22]

Do not start on your favorite stuff! Buy some garage sale stuff, or some new bottom of the line rolling stock. Start with the basics, dull-coat and and pastel chalks. Then try a few rust marks and scratches with small (tiny) brushes and paint you can clean up with water. Go slow and determine what you like, and what you are good at. Then move on to one of your keepers.

[Pruitt]

I can certainly understand your hesitation! I went through the same thing.

It's really hard to really botch weathering, fortunately (that's why I can do a halfway decent job!).

eng22 really has the key - start with the basics and work up from there. Before you know it, you'll be a pro!

[ClinchValleySD40]

Good advice from eng22. Just jump in and try it, you'll be amazed how easy it is to do and the difference it makes. Start with a little and keep building it up until it looks right.

On light colored cars (white, light green, light blue) a great way to simulate faded paint is to dull coat, then spray with regular rubbing alcohol. If you don't like it, just dull coat again and it goes away.

eng22, where is Annpere?

Larry
Holly, MI

[dknelson]

I hear ya.
eng22's idea of starting with garage sale trains is a good one, but frankly you can also start with something as cheap and common as a discarded plastic laundry detergent bottle or a piece of cardboard. Washes are easy; so are chalks that are fixed with dullcoat. They are also more reversible. Years ago a young man wrote an article for MR about using spray cans of paint but not hitting the engine or car directly -- he painted hard against a sheet of cardboard that was held at an angle near the train so the paint would "bounce" onto the train. With practice (such as on that cheapo train or plastic bottle etc) surprisingly sophisticated effects can be achieved without having to fire up the air brush. I found some camoflage color spray paints at the hardware store that work well
Dave Nelson

[Anonymous]

I agree,go to trainshows,there's always boxes of inexpensive stuff around, on your own stuff,start with the trucks and wheels,older cars are grimy black,add some browns to simulate rust,and diffenately get some chalks and dullcote.

[howmus]

TrevorG, jump in the water is fine! If I start to compare my own work with aggrojones' (and so many others here at the forum), I would never work with my scenery and rolling stock. The only way to learn how to weather rolling stock is to jump in and try it. You will soon find what works for you and what doesn't. Have fun and be sure to post it here for us see.

Have fun!

[simon1966]

I am not very good at this yet, but have a lot of fun doing it. I started by weathering some cheap and nasty rolling stock that I purchased from e-bay before I knew the difference between junk and decent. I particularly enjoy weathering with my boys.



The milk reefer done by my son (5) and the box car on the right by his cousin (11). It was the first time the cousin had ever tried weathering anything.

Have fun with it, and let your skill develop.

[tstage]

Trevor,

I took a page out of MAbruce's book and weathered a cheap $6 Athearn tanker first. For a first attempt, I think it turned out okay.

Trevor, it's any consolation, I STILL havent' weathered any of my nicer cars or locomotives. I want to finish up (i.e. finalize) my layout design before working on or thinking about weathering. I would like to study up on it more before attempting anything serious. There are some good help references out there on the subject. MR Purblishing makes a couple.

The way I see it, weathering to me is like icing on the cake. First I want to finishing "baking my cake" before I start trying to "ice" it. [:)]

Tom

[Anonymous]

Wow guys, thanks for the encouragment[tup]. I know I'm gonna jump in and get not just my feet wet, but all of me wet![(-D]

Do you have any suggestions (step-by-step) on how to weather an oxide coloured boxcar? I think I'll start there. I do NOT have an airbrush. Go from there...

Thanks Again,
Trevor

[Anonymous]

I agree with what I've read in these messages. I started with dry brushing acrylics and using chalk on old cars. I put off weathering valuable things (to me, any smooth-running engine or a Kadee car is valuable) but gained confidence, tried it, and liked the results. Recently, I've even experimented with using spray cans of primer (for rust) and flat black sprayed directly (but sparingly) onto cars then using a soft brush and paint thinner to brush off as much paint as possible (not the original paint ;-)). The results are surprisingly good, I think. I've seen overly weathered cars and engines that look like they were caught in a mud ball fight, so caution against over doing it, except for a special effect
PS, I'm new to this. Who is Aggrojones?

[tstage]

QUOTE: Originally posted by cwolf

Who is Aggrojones?

cwolf,

Just do a search on "Aggrojones" or "Weekend Photo Fun" and you'll soon discover who this fella is. He's quite the talented guy.

Tom

[WilmJunc]

Are there any water soluble products available that could be used in conjunction with chalks, and washed off with warm water and soap in the future if the aged look was no longer wanted?

[Anonymous]

Bottom line is, if you want it to look real some degree of weathering is in order. Just go railfanning one weekend and you will realize you can't "over" weather. Most of the suggestions I read above are appropriate, especially the stuff about getting a cheap car or locomotive to start on. The good thing about that is weathering is the best way to make a cheap model look good. Study the photos, read weathering articles and then dive in and have fun.

[selector]

If by oxide you mean 'white' (zinc or titanium oxide, for examples), I would begin with either red or orange chalk, or a wash of the same colours of acrylic paint, and give them one or two light coats, with dull-coat in between each. Each application of whatever, Dull-coat or wash, should be allowed to dry. YOU MUST BE PATIENT!

Once you have done, say, two light coats of the colours, try two more of an India Ink and alcohol wa***o get that streaked soot that RVs pick up over the year, 'cuz really everything gets it due to industrial fallout, pollen, automobile traffic, etc.

My first attempt was an unmitigated flop....no two ways about it. I built the Walthers Concrete Coaling Tower, the monster, with the intent of perching it on the side of my rather huge mountain as a coal mine. I used acrylic paints in what I thought was a 'wash', but it was way too strong. It is acceptable now but looks like a heavy hand had at it. I then used diluted acrylic on the Walthers Valley Cement complex, and it had promise that is still promise. It is getting better.

I then dove in with my BLI J-1e (yeooowwww!), but didn't do any harm because I was timid. I can undo some of the not so realistic parts where the acrylic pooled and dried. I won't use acrylic on that loco again, but the next item, the bridge on my turntable, was a spectacular success...with acrylics!

The last attempt was with chalk, on my P2K 0-6-0, and it took about five light applications of dusted chalk, then Dull-coat, until it began to look quite good, if I may be the judge.

Sorry, I've gone on, but I endorse what the others have said. Learn, enjoy, don't fret when you err, and do by all means expose yourself to this character-building process. It is not for the faint of heart, true, but you will eventually be happy that you went 'there'.

[jimrice4449]

A word of advice from somebody who financed the hobby for over thirty years by custom painting. All of the above is good advice but the main thing to remember is that the hardest part of weathering is knowing when to STOP.

[grandeman]

QUOTE: Originally posted by TrevorG
I have looked in awe at Aggrojones' work, shaking my head at the incredible job he has done weathering his loco's and rolling stock. I personally see him as king of weathering.

AggroJones is an weathering inspiration. Give it a try yourself, weathering isn't hard. Practice on something cheap. I'd recommend you "soot" the unit with black chalk first followed by a coat of Testors dull cote. Then add dust, rust, etc. The dull cote "grabs" the chalk and keeps it on. If you apply dull cote over the dust colors they usually don't show up very well. Good luck!

[Anonymous]

I use Braxton Mills, the more you put em "on" the more they "Stick" then I hit em with dullcoat.

I bought a make up brush set from walmart, I must tell you that applying the powder with the brushes will wear them out over time.

If you check my link to the Falls Valley photos and find a cut of 4 yellow reefers at a cold storage they were weathered. Ive a Bowser caboose that came out really well. That one will lead me to weather my M1a from BLI.

But not before I buy a new set of powder and brushes. I have spend the first part of this year weathering Athearn 40 foot boxcars. They now look acceptable instead of shiny colors.

There is always room for improvement. But really good stuff like the LL Mallet 2-8-8-2 will have to wait for another day.

[AggroJones]

Thanks. Ya'll gonna make me blush. [:I]

QUOTE: Originally posted by TrevorG

Wow guys, thanks for the encouragment[tup]. I know I'm gonna jump in and get not just my feet wet, but all of me wet![(-D]

Do you have any suggestions (step-by-step) on how to weather an oxide coloured boxcar? I think I'll start there. I do NOT have an airbrush. Go from there...
Thanks Again,
Trevor

Simple start out : After cleaning all finger prints and oil off the car, I'd give the whole body a wash of redish-brown paint. You can use the cheap Walmart acrylics mixed with rubbing alcohol and water. It doesn't have to be Polly S. Once dry I'd spray dullcote the car from ever angle to kill any shinny spots. A few days after the finish cures, use a soft bru***o work tan color pastel chalks around the car, especially near the bottom edge where the most dirt collects. Then come in with black pastel powder and soot up that roof. If you used enough chalk on the dullcote, then you won't have to re-apply it after then next step. Spray the entire thing with dullcote again.
Dry bru***he couplers dark rust.

Should be somthing like this.


Study prototype equiptment. All my weathering comes straight from reality. Coming across images of old-school stuff in color is much more difficult than finding images of, say modern Hicube boxes. Some Pentrex videos are packed with great 1940-1950 footage of steam locos and rolling stock. 'Historic Hotspots', 'The Big Boy Collection', 'Southern Pacific Classic Collector's Series' are pretty good . Charles Smiley's 'SP Vintage West' is another great one.

You gotta believe you can do it. Believe.

PS --I was going to kick off the weathering clinic when my Photobucket account bandwith resets or whatever.

[eng22]

Hey Clinchvalley, Annpere is the intersection of the Ann Arbor and the Pere Marquette. Currently the intersection of CSX and the Tuscola Saginaw Bay RR. It is on the Southeast side of Howell MI.

[Anonymous]

Thanks again to all who replied. Especially Aggrojones. I don't want to sound like I'm sucking up, but I love your stuff man. And of all the replies (no disrespect intended) yours was the one I most wanted. I am going to do it. I Believe!

Trevor

[Anonymous]

check out fallen flag railroad photos,lots of pics from all generations,i use it for my source,also branchline trains has a photo section,it gives you an idea on where to go

[Bergie]

Hi Trevor,

I'd recommend buying cheap, good-for-nothing-else freight cars (think Tyco from the late 70s, early 80s) at hobby shop close-out bins, shows and swaps meets, or garage sales (tis the season). If you can land some cars for cheap (a dollar or so) you won't have any regrets about testing your weathering techniques on those cars as you come up with a look that you like.

Think of those cheap cars as training wheels on your first bike. They helped you learn before you were ready to go full throttle.

Good luck!

Bergie

[Anonymous]

Thanks Bergie. Going to the LHS this weekend to see what sort of bargin cast offs I can harvest.


Trevor[:)]

[Anonymous]

One thing you can do is look at the real rolling stock, take pictures, and try doing it. The proto types even screw things up with paint jobs. Locomotives painted by different shops will have different lettering type or something will be different. I have seen Union Pacifc locos from orange to a pink colors. rolling stock will have patched lettering or a real dirty car will have the clean spots on it with new paint and markings. If the cars are mostly wood then you can fade it with paint. Kalmbach has a book on Painting and weathering rolling stock and it covers quite a bit of subjects to weather.

[Anonymous]

from many years of custom painting, and weathering, i give you this advice. like these other modelers said, always use cheapie trains from train sets, or any "dime a dozen" junker cars from shows, etc. now, there is another alternative to all this above. get any type of model paint stripper, such as chameleon, floquil e-z off, etc., and coat the model evenly. after about a miute or two, wide it all off from top to bottom, with a cosmetic sponge straight down the side of the car or loco. this gives it that "worn and weathered paint look". it is very easy to do. drag the sponge in fast ans slow downward swipes, to get differnt shades of wear. using artists oil pastels in the same manner can be used to add realism. oil pastels stick better when flatcoated, and the dust does not blow away as much with the flat spray application. good luck and discover your abilities!!!!!

matt arentzen www.northeastrailworks.com

[nobullchitbids]

I agree with those who say the first step is to examine actual rolling stock in the field. You may come across some surprises. For example, I knew from the first getgo that my PFE reefers were way too clean coming straight from Athearn but was surprised to notice one detail on real PFE reefers on the UP: In terms of the dirt, I saw an entire string of them which were almost black from dirt and soot; but, on every one of them, someone carefully had cleaned the area of the car where the reporting marks were located. I did not want cars so heavily grimed, so on my models I applied only a light wash of weathered black; but, I did add the detail of "cleaning" the reporting marks, which is an unusual effect.

An important point to remember is not to overdo it: The tendency of the novice is to use too heavy a hand, and all of my efforts which became disasters were for this reason. Remember: You ALWAYS can add paint later, but putting it back in the spray can is a nasty trick!

Another trick I have used is to work with oil paints -- yes, Grumbacher! Oil paints, even when thinned, do not set right away, so it is always possible (at least for a time) to "undo" your efforts. Oils will tend to dry shiny, so they do have to be dull-coated, but it is possible to dilute oils to very thin concentrations, and they will give good effects.

Beware of using a carnival of colors -- another trick of the professional is to restrict his palette. In this regard, a good oil selection is carbon black -- when thinned, it tends to brown out so that, with skill, it is possible to get nice combinations of brown and black.

Think shadows: Your model most likely will be viewed indoors, where lighting is very different from outside. With blacks and blues, you can create shadows which otherwise cannot exist. This is an excellent way to create the illusion of having separate ladders and grabs on those old Athearn boxcars which actually have these details simply molded directly into the plastic. Remember: The shadows will show UNDER and BEHIND the ladders and grabs. Don't use a brush here -- too crude! Use a sewing needle to get very thin lines.

Think also in terms of natural cleaning: Not all weathering consists of putting dirt on the model; some weathering involves taking it off. If the car had been through a dusty desert, then had gone through a rainstorm, most of the dust would be washed away; but, some of it would remain -- on those parts of the car where the rain could not reach. This can generate some unusual effects: Cars facing into a driving rainstorm might be relatively clean on the sides and one end but stay dirty on the trailing end, &c. But more often it will leave dust in such areas as under door runners, tack cards, under the tops of holes in trucks, around ladders (if you have them), &c.

Also, think in terms of how often the car might be cleaned. Passenger equipment would be cleaned often, especially prior to 1960. Newer freight cars also might be cleaned more often, since allowing the dirt to stay on can compromise the life of the car body. By comparison, older cars, like the PFE icebunkers I saw, might just be left to get blacker and blacker -- if they are on their way out anyway, there is less incentive to spruce 'em up.

Contrary to what many might think, locomotives in particular would be cleaned often, and many roads used combinations of hot water and kerosine on steam locomotives (which left them somewhat shiny). If you are weathering a loco, more so than with cars, my advice is to take it SLOWLY -- add a little weathering at a sitting, then put the model back into service for a time. At the point you think the weathering is about right, that is the point at which you may even have too much.

Finally, think in terms of your lighting. A modern television stage has four sets of lights -- spot, side, back, and kicker. That's why one never sees shadows on a television stage -- all angles are lit from somewhere. By comparison, a museum diorama probably will be lit primarily from above, with combinations of incandescent and fluorescent light (the best mimic of sunshine). Your car will look very different under these conditions, so you have to experiment to see how prototypical effects best can be captured in your peculiar situation. Aggro may be a great painter, but it is obvious that one of his best techniques is to match his painting to his layout lights, and that is a technique which requires experiment and practice -- why EASY DOES IT remains the best advice of all.

[Anonymous]

My suggestion is to look at the real railroads and see for yourself what it really is that you see. You see weathered and badly beaten up cars that show the day to day wear and tear. If you are interested in duplicating this scene then you must weather your cars and locos. You could leave a very few in their pristine shape but as on the real roads you will find only a few here and there. But even these don't last long. What with the DCC and now sound it all goes to creating the real illusion on our layouts. So it all ties together and makes a more complete recreation. Just look at some of the pix comong out in the MRR and you will see that it is getting closer to being hard to tell real from model.

[Anonymous]

The current Model Railroader magazine has a good article on weathering rolling stock.