HO metal wheel sets

[rrinker]

Not sure who you are directing this at, but I've yet to see a reason to pay more for JB or NWSL wheelsets. The P2K's also roll ike they are motorized, int he trucks they fit. Which so far has been every one of my Accurail, Stewart, Red Caboose, and Athearn cars. My father in law has a few oddballs, for those he spent the money and got the correct length Reboxx wheels. My Branchline cars already have metal wheels and they roll very nicely as well. P2K stuff of course comes with their wheels arleady in - and my tank cars I can shove and they will coast all the way around the layout and then some with just once push. That's plenty free-rolling for me. Likewise my Kato covered hoppers, with P2K wheels.
You want free rolling, try an old (when it was still top quality) Central Valley all-metal truck and wheels. My father in law has one that we can shove two and a half times around the 8x12..and that's the plain truck, with no car weight compressing the springs and releasing some of the tension on the journals. WOW.

--Randy

[Don Gibson]

There is some idea floating that all metal wheels are created equal (they aren't) and just adding metal wheels decreases rolling resistance.

Actually ROLLING RESISTANCE is directly linked to the friction between the AXLE and sideframe JOURNAL - not the wheel itself. Anyone remember the LINDBERG truck? It had Delrin sideframes, polished steel axles, plastic wheel's, - AND ROLLED LIKE they had been 'motorized'.

Metal wheels TRACK better because of greater mass and unsprung WEIGHT lowering the car's original center of gravity. They ROLL better because of the degree of polish on the axle and the truck's SIDEFRAME resistance

HOW MANY THINK the most 'solid 'wheel's, with the most highly polished axle's are going to be the cheapest?

Considering the differece in price between NWSL or JB and P2K is only around $3 per car (retail), and THIS is the only moving part (the car is piece of painted plastic), is this the place to save pennies?

SHOW? or GO?

[rrinker]

Well, if you need a bunch - because the shipping on just a couple of packs will kill you. MB Klein is VERY reputable. I've purchased from their eBay auctions, direct mail order, and also from them in person at train shows. One of these days I'll actually get into Baltimore and visit their actual store.
I get a discount at my LHS, but even so, it would be nearly $7 a pack - at this point I've converted all my cars, so if I needed just a few I'd probably pick them up at the LHS, but to do my fleet (which isn't all that large) I did a bulk purchase from Klein.

--Randy

[AntonioFP45]

QUOTE: Originally posted by rrinker

I don't consider $4.50 for 12 wheelsets, 3 car' worth, is expensive. That's what the P2K wheels cost from M.B. Klein. I don't know how they do it. Actually, prior to last month, they were $3.99 a pack.
That's one of the things I will NEVER buy at the LHS, too expensive there. Other stuff I can get for close or the same price as mail order, so I buy locally.

--Randy

Randy, what an eye opener and a decent deal. A pack of 33" P2K wheels now goes for an average of $8.00 here in Florida!

[rrinker]

I don't consider $4.50 for 12 wheelsets, 3 car' worth, is expensive. That's what the P2K wheels cost from M.B. Klein. I don't know how they do it. Actually, prior to last month, they were $3.99 a pack.
That's one of the things I will NEVER buy at the LHS, too expensive there. Other stuff I can get for close or the same price as mail order, so I buy locally.

--Randy

[Anonymous]

I go by LL P2k 33" but that is my choice. They are kind of expensive because they dont sell them in bulk.

[Don Gibson]

MIKE:

I suggest a point of reference to establish a standard to judge all other's by. ' Better than' or 'not as good as' ... for that you need a complete truck since 50% of the rolling characteristic's are governed by the friction from the truck's side frames.

A set of KATO 70 ton trucks, or Intermountain 33", or both - should get you on your way.

[MichaelWD]

I just got a Bowser 2 bay covered hopper that I want to put metal wheelsets on. What are the numbers for #55609 DL&W ACF 70 ton. I am looking at the reboxx wheelsets.
Thanks Mike Dickinson

[Don Gibson]

The problem with replacing foreign made wheels is:

Too often they are not NMRA. and neither are the trucks.

http://www.nmra.org/standards/rp-24_1.html

NOTE ' X' 1.038" +/- 2% and axle's to fit. That's 1.072" to 1,048". Have you checked your foreign made axle's with Caliper's yet? or is that the Importer's job??
I wonder how many offshore manufacturer's are even using Inches instead of Millimeter's? How about NEM (European) standard's?

As far as I know there are only 2 manufacturer's making wheelset's to guaranteed NMRA spec's:NWSL and Jaybee.

My guess is IM (wih tighter spec's) is the only other one. They are interested the higher quality market.

[Anonymous]

I use Intermountain's 33" metal wheelsets for my freight cars. They run great and are all metal. Pretty cheap, too.

[WilmJunc]

I like the Intermountain wheels, but keep in mind that Intermountain makes two types that I'm aware of. One with bearings and one without. The wheel sets without the bearings are much less expensive and still perform fine.

[Anonymous]

Many Thanks to all for this great information. It is good to find a forum where everyone can exchange information together.

Again Thanks
Phil

[cwclark]

I like KADEE, ATLAS, and INTERMOUNTAIN metal wheel sets...here are some pictures with explanations that may help you in the mounting of the metal wheel sets and Kadee couplers...click the next button and check out the step by step procedures... http://community.webshots.com/photo/137793353/300555227CpifsB Chuck...

[AntonioFP45]

Mondo,

Thanks for the info on the Kadee wheels.

[Anonymous]

QUOTE: Originally posted by mondotrains

Hi Phil,
Last year I put up a posting similar to yours and had over 50 responses. I'll share with you a summary of what I learned and what I've experienced.

Interesting artical, May 16-2004, I saved it for reference.
Also the Chgo MSI uses IM's on any incoming cars that have plastic wheels and the 36"
BB on the passenger cars.

[mondotrains]

Hi Phil,
Last year I put up a posting similar to yours and had over 50 responses. I'll share with you a summary of what I learned and what I've experienced.

First, metal wheels are the way to go. A lot of guys swear by Proto 2000, Intermountain, Kadee, Atlas, JayBee etc. Yes, Reboxx makes all different axle lengths but they are fairly expensive. Actually, they are Intermountain wheels mounted on different length axles. I only use Reboxx wheels on some passenger cars by IHC because they are the only ones that fit.

I tried all the different types on various freight cars. What I discovered is that Intermountain wheels and Proto 2000 wheels are so slick and roll so freely that in areas where my layout is the least bit unlevel, a car spotted on a siding or by itself on the mainline will roll when I don't want it to. By the way, I spent hours leveling my layout and have "refrigerator leveling feet " on all my benchwork legs, so I'm not suggesting that my layout is lopsided. I'm just saying that some wheels are toooooo slick. Also, I've discovered that the plating on the Intermountains can wear off as I've seen on several cars after a couple of hours of run time (I believe they are nickel-plasted brass). Also, I've heard that because the axles are needlepoints on the Intermountains and Reboxx, they can actually wear through the plastic truck sideframes over time.

Believe it or not, just like I've continued to use the Kadee couplers on all my rolling stock, I like the Kadee wheelsets. The plastic axles don't wear through the plastic trucks and the metal wheels look and sound great (they are solid cast zinc with no plating to wear off). One of the folks above mentioned he doesn't like the Kadees because of the coating on the wheel treads but that wears off fairly quickly and I actually take the time to wire bru***he stuff off with my Dremel before I install the Kadees.

I've found that while the Kadees aren't as free rolling as some of the others, they still roll beautifully and my cars stay put even on a slightly unlevel section of track. Also, the axle length on the Kadees seems to fint "most" cars okay, especially Athearn blue box kits. The Proto 2000 axles are a little shorter and can be sloppy in some trucks.

Now, if your're going to run 40 car trains, maybe you want the real slick wheels and can live with cars rolling when you don't want them to. On my layout, which is about 18' by 16', I only run 7 car trains, not including the engine and caboose. So, the Kadees are plenty slick.

Hope this helps and by the way, if you go to www.toytrainheaven.com, you can buy a set of 12 Kadee wheelsets for $4.39 which is cheaper than anybody I've found.

Hope this helps.
Mondo

[eng22]

I bought a box of Intermountain wheels (100 axles) for 54.00 bucks at a show a few months ago. One of the best things I have done for my rolling stock.

cdf

[nfmisso]

Phil;

It depends. Different manufacturers use different axle lengths, and sometimes different lengths even within one companies offerings - Atlas is a prime example.

You will also need a "tool" to ream out the sideframes, some will need no work, some will need a lot of work.

I use P2K, IM, Kadee and Branchline wheels. I am not inclined to purchase more Kadee due to the coating on the wheels. I also found that I prefer the .088" wide tread offerrings of IM and Branchline.

Axle length; P2K is around 1.008", IM around 1.013", Kadee and Branchline around 1.018" - all ± .003" or so.

NWSL offers several different axle lengths.
Atlas offers two different axle lenghts.
ReBoxx offers dozens of different axle lengths.

You also need to think about wheel diameter, and ribbed back (mostly pre- WWII)

[Anonymous]

I would like to replace all my rolling stock with metal wheel sets. I have about 65 cars that need wheels replaced. Could someone tell me the best way to go about this task. What brand to buy in bulk?? Thanks for any help. [:D]

Phil [:)]