QUOTE: Originally posted by Roadtrp Originally posted by nobullchitbids I will assume that anyone who signs in as "BNSF Fan" isn't running steam engines. For those who are, here are some pointers so far missed: To operate correctly, a steam locomotive's drivers must be either quartered or trined, and the quarter must match exactly on all drivers. Even an error of a couple of thousandths is enough to cause an improperly quartered mechanism to bind, twice each stroke. Beyond that, anything which causes any lockup between the drive gear and the motor can make the motor work too hard and possibly overheat. Start "doctorin'" your iron horse by manually checking the mechanism -- remove the motor, worm and gearbox so that the mechanism will run freely. Place the mechanism on a glass surface -- a large picture frame, baking dish, a tile floor, &c. Pu***he mechanism forward and watch the wheels -- all should turn freely, even on the glass. If they lock up anywhere, the problem lies either in the quartering or in the stroke adjustment at the motion plate (valve-gear holder). That is assuming you do not have a bent rod, axle, or valve-gear part. If the problem lies in the motion plate, then the mechanism will pass the glass-plate test with the valve gear disconnected at the eccentric. If not, you will have to requarter the drivers (all of them, so that the quarter matches). NWSL makes a jig for this, and you also will need a NWSL "Puller" to get the driver off. With drivers quartered and motion plate properly located, it is time to look at the drive gear: Is it squarely mounted in the center of the axle? If not, it needs to be reseated (don't forget to maintain the quarter when reinstalling the driver). Now, inspect the gearbox: Is there wear on the mounts which makes the axle "float" in the box? If so, replace the gearbox. Now, check both worm and spur with a ten-power glass (jeweler's loop): There should be no burrs or edges in any of the teeth or grooves. If there are, remove them carefully with a small file. What about the worm bearings? They also should not be worn, so that the worm on its shaft runs true. The worm, no more than the axle, should not float in its mounting. Another critical area is the interface between worm and spur -- the mesh of the gears must be neither too tight nor too loose. If you are using a commercial gearbox, this should not be a problem provided there has been no wear. To get the correct mesh, either CAREFULLY file the gearbox face at the cover (a couple file strokes each time and no more, since you always can go back and cut more) or, to increase spacing, add a shim plate (.005" brass filed down). Check the motor shaft to insure it (a) has not become bent; (b) is not crooked in terms of its alignment with the worm shaft. Most good steam-loco models are sprung, and this requires either a motor mounted by a solid arm attached directly to the gearbox or some kind of flexible or universal coupling between worm shaft and motor shaft. The former arrangement is better from a current-drawing perspective, but the latter is more common. And, while a flexible coupling will allow the motor to turn the worm shaft without binding, this part of the connection still can make a motor work harder than it should (primary cause for overheating). To change the angle of the connection of the shafts, file or shim the motor mount as appropriate, so that the two align in a straight line when the weighted locomotive is resting on the track. Now, look at the flywheel, if you have one. The flywheel must be square and perfectly balanced or it will vibrate as it rotates. To balance the flywheel, remove it and mount it on a pair of razor blades -- when rolled to a new position, if balanced, it should not roll back. If it does roll back, there is a heavy spot at the bottom (file CAREFULLY, a couple of strokes and no more), then retest. The last factor to consider is weight -- if the locomotive is too heavy, no matter how good the mechanism or motor, the motor will overheat. In this circumstance, the solution is either to remove weight or install a larger motor. N.B.: The larger motor does not necessarily pull more or work better; but, its larger size will enable it to dissipate more heat. There is one other trick to play: If the motor can be brought into contact with another metal part, that part can act as a heat sink and siphon away some of the heat building up in the motor. The last thing to think about is lubrication and breaking in. The motor, the bearings, the worm, the spur, the axles, the pistons, the side-rod posts, and the valve gear must be lubricated with the proper grade of oil, and the locomotive then should be run under no-load conditions (I mount mine in the air over a shoebox) for several hours in both directions (this tends to eliminate problems from any small burrs of other causes of friction which the modeler missed)). The foregoing regimen should eliminate most hot motors. One other cause of hot motors is weakening of the magnetic field because of improper disassembly of the motor (if you failed to install a "keeper" when you took the motor apart the last time, this could apply). Another cause is running the motor at high revs under heavy load on "pulse" power (make certain your throttle settings are correct). Finally, you might be just trying to pull too much! But, that would be a problem I can't solve, other than to call for a helper next time you see the hostler. Holy crawfish!! If you value your time at all that is a no-win deal. I would buy a new locomotive before I ever went to that much work. [;)] [/quote Patience my son, patience. All good things come with time. Sometimes patience and time can have great rewards. Reply Roadtrp Member sinceNovember 2003 760 posts Posted by Roadtrp on Saturday, May 21, 2005 1:02 AM QUOTE: Originally posted by nobullchitbids I will assume that anyone who signs in as "BNSF Fan" isn't running steam engines. For those who are, here are some pointers so far missed: To operate correctly, a steam locomotive's drivers must be either quartered or trined, and the quarter must match exactly on all drivers. Even an error of a couple of thousandths is enough to cause an improperly quartered mechanism to bind, twice each stroke. Beyond that, anything which causes any lockup between the drive gear and the motor can make the motor work too hard and possibly overheat. Start "doctorin'" your iron horse by manually checking the mechanism -- remove the motor, worm and gearbox so that the mechanism will run freely. Place the mechanism on a glass surface -- a large picture frame, baking dish, a tile floor, &c. Pu***he mechanism forward and watch the wheels -- all should turn freely, even on the glass. If they lock up anywhere, the problem lies either in the quartering or in the stroke adjustment at the motion plate (valve-gear holder). That is assuming you do not have a bent rod, axle, or valve-gear part. If the problem lies in the motion plate, then the mechanism will pass the glass-plate test with the valve gear disconnected at the eccentric. If not, you will have to requarter the drivers (all of them, so that the quarter matches). NWSL makes a jig for this, and you also will need a NWSL "Puller" to get the driver off. With drivers quartered and motion plate properly located, it is time to look at the drive gear: Is it squarely mounted in the center of the axle? If not, it needs to be reseated (don't forget to maintain the quarter when reinstalling the driver). Now, inspect the gearbox: Is there wear on the mounts which makes the axle "float" in the box? If so, replace the gearbox. Now, check both worm and spur with a ten-power glass (jeweler's loop): There should be no burrs or edges in any of the teeth or grooves. If there are, remove them carefully with a small file. What about the worm bearings? They also should not be worn, so that the worm on its shaft runs true. The worm, no more than the axle, should not float in its mounting. Another critical area is the interface between worm and spur -- the mesh of the gears must be neither too tight nor too loose. If you are using a commercial gearbox, this should not be a problem provided there has been no wear. To get the correct mesh, either CAREFULLY file the gearbox face at the cover (a couple file strokes each time and no more, since you always can go back and cut more) or, to increase spacing, add a shim plate (.005" brass filed down). Check the motor shaft to insure it (a) has not become bent; (b) is not crooked in terms of its alignment with the worm shaft. Most good steam-loco models are sprung, and this requires either a motor mounted by a solid arm attached directly to the gearbox or some kind of flexible or universal coupling between worm shaft and motor shaft. The former arrangement is better from a current-drawing perspective, but the latter is more common. And, while a flexible coupling will allow the motor to turn the worm shaft without binding, this part of the connection still can make a motor work harder than it should (primary cause for overheating). To change the angle of the connection of the shafts, file or shim the motor mount as appropriate, so that the two align in a straight line when the weighted locomotive is resting on the track. Now, look at the flywheel, if you have one. The flywheel must be square and perfectly balanced or it will vibrate as it rotates. To balance the flywheel, remove it and mount it on a pair of razor blades -- when rolled to a new position, if balanced, it should not roll back. If it does roll back, there is a heavy spot at the bottom (file CAREFULLY, a couple of strokes and no more), then retest. The last factor to consider is weight -- if the locomotive is too heavy, no matter how good the mechanism or motor, the motor will overheat. In this circumstance, the solution is either to remove weight or install a larger motor. N.B.: The larger motor does not necessarily pull more or work better; but, its larger size will enable it to dissipate more heat. There is one other trick to play: If the motor can be brought into contact with another metal part, that part can act as a heat sink and siphon away some of the heat building up in the motor. The last thing to think about is lubrication and breaking in. The motor, the bearings, the worm, the spur, the axles, the pistons, the side-rod posts, and the valve gear must be lubricated with the proper grade of oil, and the locomotive then should be run under no-load conditions (I mount mine in the air over a shoebox) for several hours in both directions (this tends to eliminate problems from any small burrs of other causes of friction which the modeler missed)). The foregoing regimen should eliminate most hot motors. One other cause of hot motors is weakening of the magnetic field because of improper disassembly of the motor (if you failed to install a "keeper" when you took the motor apart the last time, this could apply). Another cause is running the motor at high revs under heavy load on "pulse" power (make certain your throttle settings are correct). Finally, you might be just trying to pull too much! But, that would be a problem I can't solve, other than to call for a helper next time you see the hostler. Holy crawfish!! If you value your time at all that is a no-win deal. I would buy a new locomotive before I ever went to that much work. [;)] -Jerry Reply mcouvillion Member sinceAugust 2003 From: Northeast Houston 576 posts Posted by mcouvillion on Saturday, May 21, 2005 12:51 AM BNSF Railfan, I've got an old Revell 0-6-0 steam engine with smoke generator, "chuffing sound", and a yellow headlight. When I have run it, it ambles down the track just as pretty as you please. After a few minutes, it is HOT, just like a real steam engine. Nothing wrong with it, that's just the way it is. Yes, it pulls a bunch of current, no, I do not intend to put a decoder in it, and yes, it has been fully disassembled and carefully aligned and lubed. Just another take on whether an engine is supposed to be hot or not. Mark C. Reply Anonymous Member sinceApril 2003 305,205 posts Posted by Anonymous on Friday, May 20, 2005 9:06 PM Any model train mechanisim should run free but not sloppy to minimize motor loading. Steam type engines must have all drivers quartered the same to eliminate siderod bind. The valvegear must be free with no tight spots.(If loco has that equipment.) The last thing is the proper lubrication. I suggest Labelle 106 grease on the worm & worm gear, (commonly called a spur gear.) 107medium oil on motor shafts, siderods & valvegear. All of these lubricants mentioned are plastic compatible. Use lubricants sparingly as they can cause problems that you don't need. All mechanisims should be clean and free from dirt before you even start to chase down tight spots. Reply Edit Anonymous Member sinceApril 2003 305,205 posts Posted by Anonymous on Friday, May 20, 2005 5:44 PM Originally posted by nobullchitbids I will assume that anyone who signs in as "BNSF Fan" isn't running steam engines. No comment. Reply Edit nobullchitbids Member sinceFebruary 2012 257 posts Posted by nobullchitbids on Friday, May 20, 2005 4:37 PM I will assume that anyone who signs in as "BNSF Fan" isn't running steam engines. For those who are, here are some pointers so far missed: To operate correctly, a steam locomotive's drivers must be either quartered or trined, and the quarter must match exactly on all drivers. Even an error of a couple of thousandths is enough to cause an improperly quartered mechanism to bind, twice each stroke. Beyond that, anything which causes any lockup between the drive gear and the motor can make the motor work too hard and possibly overheat. Start "doctorin'" your iron horse by manually checking the mechanism -- remove the motor, worm and gearbox so that the mechanism will run freely. Place the mechanism on a glass surface -- a large picture frame, baking dish, a tile floor, &c. Pu***he mechanism forward and watch the wheels -- all should turn freely, even on the glass. If they lock up anywhere, the problem lies either in the quartering or in the stroke adjustment at the motion plate (valve-gear holder). That is assuming you do not have a bent rod, axle, or valve-gear part. If the problem lies in the motion plate, then the mechanism will pass the glass-plate test with the valve gear disconnected at the eccentric. If not, you will have to requarter the drivers (all of them, so that the quarter matches). NWSL makes a jig for this, and you also will need a NWSL "Puller" to get the driver off. With drivers quartered and motion plate properly located, it is time to look at the drive gear: Is it squarely mounted in the center of the axle? If not, it needs to be reseated (don't forget to maintain the quarter when reinstalling the driver). Now, inspect the gearbox: Is there wear on the mounts which makes the axle "float" in the box? If so, replace the gearbox. Now, check both worm and spur with a ten-power glass (jeweler's loop): There should be no burrs or edges in any of the teeth or grooves. If there are, remove them carefully with a small file. What about the worm bearings? They also should not be worn, so that the worm on its shaft runs true. The worm, no more than the axle, should not float in its mounting. Another critical area is the interface between worm and spur -- the mesh of the gears must be neither too tight nor too loose. If you are using a commercial gearbox, this should not be a problem provided there has been no wear. To get the correct mesh, either CAREFULLY file the gearbox face at the cover (a couple file strokes each time and no more, since you always can go back and cut more) or, to increase spacing, add a shim plate (.005" brass filed down). Check the motor shaft to insure it (a) has not become bent; (b) is not crooked in terms of its alignment with the worm shaft. Most good steam-loco models are sprung, and this requires either a motor mounted by a solid arm attached directly to the gearbox or some kind of flexible or universal coupling between worm shaft and motor shaft. The former arrangement is better from a current-drawing perspective, but the latter is more common. And, while a flexible coupling will allow the motor to turn the worm shaft without binding, this part of the connection still can make a motor work harder than it should (primary cause for overheating). To change the angle of the connection of the shafts, file or shim the motor mount as appropriate, so that the two align in a straight line when the weighted locomotive is resting on the track. Now, look at the flywheel, if you have one. The flywheel must be square and perfectly balanced or it will vibrate as it rotates. To balance the flywheel, remove it and mount it on a pair of razor blades -- when rolled to a new position, if balanced, it should not roll back. If it does roll back, there is a heavy spot at the bottom (file CAREFULLY, a couple of strokes and no more), then retest. The last factor to consider is weight -- if the locomotive is too heavy, no matter how good the mechanism or motor, the motor will overheat. In this circumstance, the solution is either to remove weight or install a larger motor. N.B.: The larger motor does not necessarily pull more or work better; but, its larger size will enable it to dissipate more heat. There is one other trick to play: If the motor can be brought into contact with another metal part, that part can act as a heat sink and siphon away some of the heat building up in the motor. The last thing to think about is lubrication and breaking in. The motor, the bearings, the worm, the spur, the axles, the pistons, the side-rod posts, and the valve gear must be lubricated with the proper grade of oil, and the locomotive then should be run under no-load conditions (I mount mine in the air over a shoebox) for several hours in both directions (this tends to eliminate problems from any small burrs of other causes of friction which the modeler missed)). The foregoing regimen should eliminate most hot motors. One other cause of hot motors is weakening of the magnetic field because of improper disassembly of the motor (if you failed to install a "keeper" when you took the motor apart the last time, this could apply). Another cause is running the motor at high revs under heavy load on "pulse" power (make certain your throttle settings are correct). Finally, you might be just trying to pull too much! But, that would be a problem I can't solve, other than to call for a helper next time you see the hostler. Reply Anonymous Member sinceApril 2003 305,205 posts Posted by Anonymous on Wednesday, May 18, 2005 12:35 PM When my dad and I started building out first layout in about 20 years, I got some old AHM locos out of their boxes that I last used when I was a young tike back in the 80's... My son was running the DC throttle on this one particular C&NW diesel. He jacked the throttle up about 1/2 way to get it started rolling, and but the time that loco had run about 8 linear feet of track, it was smoking like crazy. We stopped the loco and took it off the track, looked it over and didn't lube it or anything, put it back on and ran it. All of the sudden it started running real nice - must have just been "locked up" a bit from sitting so long. We lubed it up and it is now the fastest loco in our fleet, by a bunch. Never gets hot, barely warm... I burned out a lightbuld in it and popped the shell off of it after a fairly long run-time, some at very high speed. Motor was just slightly warm to the touch. Reply Edit Anonymous Member sinceApril 2003 305,205 posts Posted by Anonymous on Wednesday, May 18, 2005 11:38 AM Motors get hot because they are loaded down. If a locomotive is properly tuned it should never get hot, a little warm maybe, but never hot. A hot motor is doing a slow (or fast) death. Take the shell off, clean up and lube the gears. You may need to shim the worm gear if there's too much lash. Use a thin teflon washer if you can find one, if not, use a brass one. You should also take the time to lightly lube the trucks. You can also scrub the motor armature down with a white pencil eraser to smooth it. Mark in Utah Reply Edit Anonymous Member sinceApril 2003 305,205 posts Posted by Anonymous on Wednesday, May 18, 2005 7:27 AM Some do, some don't. I have a couple of Bachmann N F7s that get distinctly warm while running and slow down over the course of about an hour's continuous run. I've had them in bits a few times, there's no obvious problems and the motor spins freely, so I have no idea what's causing this. I also have a Minitrix loco that must be a good 15 years old (has "Made in Western Germany" on the box) and has probably covered a good few miles (bought it used) that runs cool however long you leave it for - guess Minitrix motors are better than Bachmann! Reply Edit Vampire Member sinceMay 2004 From: California 176 posts Posted by Vampire on Wednesday, May 18, 2005 3:13 AM Many moons ago I remember receiving a Model Power E unit that ran terrible right from the get-go. It was very slow and erratic and it got quite warm after running awhile. The motor (a huge can type) always sounded like it was loaded down. One day I opened it up to see if I could explain the trouble and found there was not one drop of oil in the gear boxes. There were small piles of plastic filings inside from the gears grinding away! I cleaned and lubed the gears and that loco instantly became the best runner in my fleet for many years! I don't know if your loco is new or not, but this could be something to check. Reply Anonymous Member sinceApril 2003 305,205 posts Posted by Anonymous on Tuesday, May 17, 2005 9:24 AM A certain amount of heat is generated with all motors, but if you have a model that is getting very hot, it is drawing way too much current. Some of the older Athearn and other model engines would draw a high level of current under load and causing the motor to run hot. If you want to correct this, you would have to replace the motor with a new type. Reply Edit cacole Member sinceJuly 2003 From: Sierra Vista, Arizona 13,757 posts Posted by cacole on Tuesday, May 17, 2005 9:23 AM What brand and type of locomotive do you have? How much of a load were you pulling? How old is the locomotive? What scale are you talking about? At our HO-scale club's recent open house, we ran several locomotives, both steam and diesel, from 10:00 a.m. until after 6:00 p.m. pulling heavy loads uphill and had no problems at all with overheating. These locos were Bachmann Spectrum steamers and Kato diesels with can motors operating on DCC, pulling as many as 40 loaded coal hoppers. Reply Anonymous Member sinceApril 2003 305,205 posts Locomotive getting Hot. Posted by Anonymous on Tuesday, May 17, 2005 8:31 AM Has anyone ever had problems with their Locomotives getting very hot during an extended running period on your layout? I do know that if you run your Locomotives alot that the Motor can get quiet warm. Has the warm or hot motor ever caused the Locomotive shell to melt? Is'nt there a way to help keep the Motor cool during an extended use on the layout. I don't understand why the Modeling companys don't install small fans near the Motor to help keep the Engine cool. Thanks. BNSFrailfan. Reply Edit Subscriber & Member Login Login, or register today to interact in our online community, comment on articles, receive our newsletter, manage your account online and more! Login Register Users Online There are no community member online Search the Community ADVERTISEMENT ADVERTISEMENT ADVERTISEMENT Model Railroader Newsletter See all Sign up for our FREE e-newsletter and get model railroad news in your inbox! Sign up
Originally posted by nobullchitbids I will assume that anyone who signs in as "BNSF Fan" isn't running steam engines. For those who are, here are some pointers so far missed: To operate correctly, a steam locomotive's drivers must be either quartered or trined, and the quarter must match exactly on all drivers. Even an error of a couple of thousandths is enough to cause an improperly quartered mechanism to bind, twice each stroke. Beyond that, anything which causes any lockup between the drive gear and the motor can make the motor work too hard and possibly overheat. Start "doctorin'" your iron horse by manually checking the mechanism -- remove the motor, worm and gearbox so that the mechanism will run freely. Place the mechanism on a glass surface -- a large picture frame, baking dish, a tile floor, &c. Pu***he mechanism forward and watch the wheels -- all should turn freely, even on the glass. If they lock up anywhere, the problem lies either in the quartering or in the stroke adjustment at the motion plate (valve-gear holder). That is assuming you do not have a bent rod, axle, or valve-gear part. If the problem lies in the motion plate, then the mechanism will pass the glass-plate test with the valve gear disconnected at the eccentric. If not, you will have to requarter the drivers (all of them, so that the quarter matches). NWSL makes a jig for this, and you also will need a NWSL "Puller" to get the driver off. With drivers quartered and motion plate properly located, it is time to look at the drive gear: Is it squarely mounted in the center of the axle? If not, it needs to be reseated (don't forget to maintain the quarter when reinstalling the driver). Now, inspect the gearbox: Is there wear on the mounts which makes the axle "float" in the box? If so, replace the gearbox. Now, check both worm and spur with a ten-power glass (jeweler's loop): There should be no burrs or edges in any of the teeth or grooves. If there are, remove them carefully with a small file. What about the worm bearings? They also should not be worn, so that the worm on its shaft runs true. The worm, no more than the axle, should not float in its mounting. Another critical area is the interface between worm and spur -- the mesh of the gears must be neither too tight nor too loose. If you are using a commercial gearbox, this should not be a problem provided there has been no wear. To get the correct mesh, either CAREFULLY file the gearbox face at the cover (a couple file strokes each time and no more, since you always can go back and cut more) or, to increase spacing, add a shim plate (.005" brass filed down). Check the motor shaft to insure it (a) has not become bent; (b) is not crooked in terms of its alignment with the worm shaft. Most good steam-loco models are sprung, and this requires either a motor mounted by a solid arm attached directly to the gearbox or some kind of flexible or universal coupling between worm shaft and motor shaft. The former arrangement is better from a current-drawing perspective, but the latter is more common. And, while a flexible coupling will allow the motor to turn the worm shaft without binding, this part of the connection still can make a motor work harder than it should (primary cause for overheating). To change the angle of the connection of the shafts, file or shim the motor mount as appropriate, so that the two align in a straight line when the weighted locomotive is resting on the track. Now, look at the flywheel, if you have one. The flywheel must be square and perfectly balanced or it will vibrate as it rotates. To balance the flywheel, remove it and mount it on a pair of razor blades -- when rolled to a new position, if balanced, it should not roll back. If it does roll back, there is a heavy spot at the bottom (file CAREFULLY, a couple of strokes and no more), then retest. The last factor to consider is weight -- if the locomotive is too heavy, no matter how good the mechanism or motor, the motor will overheat. In this circumstance, the solution is either to remove weight or install a larger motor. N.B.: The larger motor does not necessarily pull more or work better; but, its larger size will enable it to dissipate more heat. There is one other trick to play: If the motor can be brought into contact with another metal part, that part can act as a heat sink and siphon away some of the heat building up in the motor. The last thing to think about is lubrication and breaking in. The motor, the bearings, the worm, the spur, the axles, the pistons, the side-rod posts, and the valve gear must be lubricated with the proper grade of oil, and the locomotive then should be run under no-load conditions (I mount mine in the air over a shoebox) for several hours in both directions (this tends to eliminate problems from any small burrs of other causes of friction which the modeler missed)). The foregoing regimen should eliminate most hot motors. One other cause of hot motors is weakening of the magnetic field because of improper disassembly of the motor (if you failed to install a "keeper" when you took the motor apart the last time, this could apply). Another cause is running the motor at high revs under heavy load on "pulse" power (make certain your throttle settings are correct). Finally, you might be just trying to pull too much! But, that would be a problem I can't solve, other than to call for a helper next time you see the hostler.
QUOTE: Originally posted by nobullchitbids I will assume that anyone who signs in as "BNSF Fan" isn't running steam engines. For those who are, here are some pointers so far missed: To operate correctly, a steam locomotive's drivers must be either quartered or trined, and the quarter must match exactly on all drivers. Even an error of a couple of thousandths is enough to cause an improperly quartered mechanism to bind, twice each stroke. Beyond that, anything which causes any lockup between the drive gear and the motor can make the motor work too hard and possibly overheat. Start "doctorin'" your iron horse by manually checking the mechanism -- remove the motor, worm and gearbox so that the mechanism will run freely. Place the mechanism on a glass surface -- a large picture frame, baking dish, a tile floor, &c. Pu***he mechanism forward and watch the wheels -- all should turn freely, even on the glass. If they lock up anywhere, the problem lies either in the quartering or in the stroke adjustment at the motion plate (valve-gear holder). That is assuming you do not have a bent rod, axle, or valve-gear part. If the problem lies in the motion plate, then the mechanism will pass the glass-plate test with the valve gear disconnected at the eccentric. If not, you will have to requarter the drivers (all of them, so that the quarter matches). NWSL makes a jig for this, and you also will need a NWSL "Puller" to get the driver off. With drivers quartered and motion plate properly located, it is time to look at the drive gear: Is it squarely mounted in the center of the axle? If not, it needs to be reseated (don't forget to maintain the quarter when reinstalling the driver). Now, inspect the gearbox: Is there wear on the mounts which makes the axle "float" in the box? If so, replace the gearbox. Now, check both worm and spur with a ten-power glass (jeweler's loop): There should be no burrs or edges in any of the teeth or grooves. If there are, remove them carefully with a small file. What about the worm bearings? They also should not be worn, so that the worm on its shaft runs true. The worm, no more than the axle, should not float in its mounting. Another critical area is the interface between worm and spur -- the mesh of the gears must be neither too tight nor too loose. If you are using a commercial gearbox, this should not be a problem provided there has been no wear. To get the correct mesh, either CAREFULLY file the gearbox face at the cover (a couple file strokes each time and no more, since you always can go back and cut more) or, to increase spacing, add a shim plate (.005" brass filed down). Check the motor shaft to insure it (a) has not become bent; (b) is not crooked in terms of its alignment with the worm shaft. Most good steam-loco models are sprung, and this requires either a motor mounted by a solid arm attached directly to the gearbox or some kind of flexible or universal coupling between worm shaft and motor shaft. The former arrangement is better from a current-drawing perspective, but the latter is more common. And, while a flexible coupling will allow the motor to turn the worm shaft without binding, this part of the connection still can make a motor work harder than it should (primary cause for overheating). To change the angle of the connection of the shafts, file or shim the motor mount as appropriate, so that the two align in a straight line when the weighted locomotive is resting on the track. Now, look at the flywheel, if you have one. The flywheel must be square and perfectly balanced or it will vibrate as it rotates. To balance the flywheel, remove it and mount it on a pair of razor blades -- when rolled to a new position, if balanced, it should not roll back. If it does roll back, there is a heavy spot at the bottom (file CAREFULLY, a couple of strokes and no more), then retest. The last factor to consider is weight -- if the locomotive is too heavy, no matter how good the mechanism or motor, the motor will overheat. In this circumstance, the solution is either to remove weight or install a larger motor. N.B.: The larger motor does not necessarily pull more or work better; but, its larger size will enable it to dissipate more heat. There is one other trick to play: If the motor can be brought into contact with another metal part, that part can act as a heat sink and siphon away some of the heat building up in the motor. The last thing to think about is lubrication and breaking in. The motor, the bearings, the worm, the spur, the axles, the pistons, the side-rod posts, and the valve gear must be lubricated with the proper grade of oil, and the locomotive then should be run under no-load conditions (I mount mine in the air over a shoebox) for several hours in both directions (this tends to eliminate problems from any small burrs of other causes of friction which the modeler missed)). The foregoing regimen should eliminate most hot motors. One other cause of hot motors is weakening of the magnetic field because of improper disassembly of the motor (if you failed to install a "keeper" when you took the motor apart the last time, this could apply). Another cause is running the motor at high revs under heavy load on "pulse" power (make certain your throttle settings are correct). Finally, you might be just trying to pull too much! But, that would be a problem I can't solve, other than to call for a helper next time you see the hostler.
Originally posted by nobullchitbids I will assume that anyone who signs in as "BNSF Fan" isn't running steam engines. No comment. Reply Edit nobullchitbids Member sinceFebruary 2012 257 posts Posted by nobullchitbids on Friday, May 20, 2005 4:37 PM I will assume that anyone who signs in as "BNSF Fan" isn't running steam engines. For those who are, here are some pointers so far missed: To operate correctly, a steam locomotive's drivers must be either quartered or trined, and the quarter must match exactly on all drivers. Even an error of a couple of thousandths is enough to cause an improperly quartered mechanism to bind, twice each stroke. Beyond that, anything which causes any lockup between the drive gear and the motor can make the motor work too hard and possibly overheat. Start "doctorin'" your iron horse by manually checking the mechanism -- remove the motor, worm and gearbox so that the mechanism will run freely. Place the mechanism on a glass surface -- a large picture frame, baking dish, a tile floor, &c. Pu***he mechanism forward and watch the wheels -- all should turn freely, even on the glass. If they lock up anywhere, the problem lies either in the quartering or in the stroke adjustment at the motion plate (valve-gear holder). That is assuming you do not have a bent rod, axle, or valve-gear part. If the problem lies in the motion plate, then the mechanism will pass the glass-plate test with the valve gear disconnected at the eccentric. If not, you will have to requarter the drivers (all of them, so that the quarter matches). NWSL makes a jig for this, and you also will need a NWSL "Puller" to get the driver off. With drivers quartered and motion plate properly located, it is time to look at the drive gear: Is it squarely mounted in the center of the axle? If not, it needs to be reseated (don't forget to maintain the quarter when reinstalling the driver). Now, inspect the gearbox: Is there wear on the mounts which makes the axle "float" in the box? If so, replace the gearbox. Now, check both worm and spur with a ten-power glass (jeweler's loop): There should be no burrs or edges in any of the teeth or grooves. If there are, remove them carefully with a small file. What about the worm bearings? They also should not be worn, so that the worm on its shaft runs true. The worm, no more than the axle, should not float in its mounting. Another critical area is the interface between worm and spur -- the mesh of the gears must be neither too tight nor too loose. If you are using a commercial gearbox, this should not be a problem provided there has been no wear. To get the correct mesh, either CAREFULLY file the gearbox face at the cover (a couple file strokes each time and no more, since you always can go back and cut more) or, to increase spacing, add a shim plate (.005" brass filed down). Check the motor shaft to insure it (a) has not become bent; (b) is not crooked in terms of its alignment with the worm shaft. Most good steam-loco models are sprung, and this requires either a motor mounted by a solid arm attached directly to the gearbox or some kind of flexible or universal coupling between worm shaft and motor shaft. The former arrangement is better from a current-drawing perspective, but the latter is more common. And, while a flexible coupling will allow the motor to turn the worm shaft without binding, this part of the connection still can make a motor work harder than it should (primary cause for overheating). To change the angle of the connection of the shafts, file or shim the motor mount as appropriate, so that the two align in a straight line when the weighted locomotive is resting on the track. Now, look at the flywheel, if you have one. The flywheel must be square and perfectly balanced or it will vibrate as it rotates. To balance the flywheel, remove it and mount it on a pair of razor blades -- when rolled to a new position, if balanced, it should not roll back. If it does roll back, there is a heavy spot at the bottom (file CAREFULLY, a couple of strokes and no more), then retest. The last factor to consider is weight -- if the locomotive is too heavy, no matter how good the mechanism or motor, the motor will overheat. In this circumstance, the solution is either to remove weight or install a larger motor. N.B.: The larger motor does not necessarily pull more or work better; but, its larger size will enable it to dissipate more heat. There is one other trick to play: If the motor can be brought into contact with another metal part, that part can act as a heat sink and siphon away some of the heat building up in the motor. The last thing to think about is lubrication and breaking in. The motor, the bearings, the worm, the spur, the axles, the pistons, the side-rod posts, and the valve gear must be lubricated with the proper grade of oil, and the locomotive then should be run under no-load conditions (I mount mine in the air over a shoebox) for several hours in both directions (this tends to eliminate problems from any small burrs of other causes of friction which the modeler missed)). The foregoing regimen should eliminate most hot motors. One other cause of hot motors is weakening of the magnetic field because of improper disassembly of the motor (if you failed to install a "keeper" when you took the motor apart the last time, this could apply). Another cause is running the motor at high revs under heavy load on "pulse" power (make certain your throttle settings are correct). Finally, you might be just trying to pull too much! But, that would be a problem I can't solve, other than to call for a helper next time you see the hostler. Reply Anonymous Member sinceApril 2003 305,205 posts Posted by Anonymous on Wednesday, May 18, 2005 12:35 PM When my dad and I started building out first layout in about 20 years, I got some old AHM locos out of their boxes that I last used when I was a young tike back in the 80's... My son was running the DC throttle on this one particular C&NW diesel. He jacked the throttle up about 1/2 way to get it started rolling, and but the time that loco had run about 8 linear feet of track, it was smoking like crazy. We stopped the loco and took it off the track, looked it over and didn't lube it or anything, put it back on and ran it. All of the sudden it started running real nice - must have just been "locked up" a bit from sitting so long. We lubed it up and it is now the fastest loco in our fleet, by a bunch. Never gets hot, barely warm... I burned out a lightbuld in it and popped the shell off of it after a fairly long run-time, some at very high speed. Motor was just slightly warm to the touch. Reply Edit Anonymous Member sinceApril 2003 305,205 posts Posted by Anonymous on Wednesday, May 18, 2005 11:38 AM Motors get hot because they are loaded down. If a locomotive is properly tuned it should never get hot, a little warm maybe, but never hot. A hot motor is doing a slow (or fast) death. Take the shell off, clean up and lube the gears. You may need to shim the worm gear if there's too much lash. Use a thin teflon washer if you can find one, if not, use a brass one. You should also take the time to lightly lube the trucks. You can also scrub the motor armature down with a white pencil eraser to smooth it. Mark in Utah Reply Edit Anonymous Member sinceApril 2003 305,205 posts Posted by Anonymous on Wednesday, May 18, 2005 7:27 AM Some do, some don't. I have a couple of Bachmann N F7s that get distinctly warm while running and slow down over the course of about an hour's continuous run. I've had them in bits a few times, there's no obvious problems and the motor spins freely, so I have no idea what's causing this. I also have a Minitrix loco that must be a good 15 years old (has "Made in Western Germany" on the box) and has probably covered a good few miles (bought it used) that runs cool however long you leave it for - guess Minitrix motors are better than Bachmann! Reply Edit Vampire Member sinceMay 2004 From: California 176 posts Posted by Vampire on Wednesday, May 18, 2005 3:13 AM Many moons ago I remember receiving a Model Power E unit that ran terrible right from the get-go. It was very slow and erratic and it got quite warm after running awhile. The motor (a huge can type) always sounded like it was loaded down. One day I opened it up to see if I could explain the trouble and found there was not one drop of oil in the gear boxes. There were small piles of plastic filings inside from the gears grinding away! I cleaned and lubed the gears and that loco instantly became the best runner in my fleet for many years! I don't know if your loco is new or not, but this could be something to check. Reply Anonymous Member sinceApril 2003 305,205 posts Posted by Anonymous on Tuesday, May 17, 2005 9:24 AM A certain amount of heat is generated with all motors, but if you have a model that is getting very hot, it is drawing way too much current. Some of the older Athearn and other model engines would draw a high level of current under load and causing the motor to run hot. If you want to correct this, you would have to replace the motor with a new type. Reply Edit cacole Member sinceJuly 2003 From: Sierra Vista, Arizona 13,757 posts Posted by cacole on Tuesday, May 17, 2005 9:23 AM What brand and type of locomotive do you have? How much of a load were you pulling? How old is the locomotive? What scale are you talking about? At our HO-scale club's recent open house, we ran several locomotives, both steam and diesel, from 10:00 a.m. until after 6:00 p.m. pulling heavy loads uphill and had no problems at all with overheating. These locos were Bachmann Spectrum steamers and Kato diesels with can motors operating on DCC, pulling as many as 40 loaded coal hoppers. Reply Anonymous Member sinceApril 2003 305,205 posts Locomotive getting Hot. Posted by Anonymous on Tuesday, May 17, 2005 8:31 AM Has anyone ever had problems with their Locomotives getting very hot during an extended running period on your layout? I do know that if you run your Locomotives alot that the Motor can get quiet warm. Has the warm or hot motor ever caused the Locomotive shell to melt? Is'nt there a way to help keep the Motor cool during an extended use on the layout. I don't understand why the Modeling companys don't install small fans near the Motor to help keep the Engine cool. Thanks. BNSFrailfan. Reply Edit Subscriber & Member Login Login, or register today to interact in our online community, comment on articles, receive our newsletter, manage your account online and more! Login Register Users Online There are no community member online Search the Community ADVERTISEMENT ADVERTISEMENT ADVERTISEMENT Model Railroader Newsletter See all Sign up for our FREE e-newsletter and get model railroad news in your inbox! Sign up
No comment. Reply Edit nobullchitbids Member sinceFebruary 2012 257 posts Posted by nobullchitbids on Friday, May 20, 2005 4:37 PM I will assume that anyone who signs in as "BNSF Fan" isn't running steam engines. For those who are, here are some pointers so far missed: To operate correctly, a steam locomotive's drivers must be either quartered or trined, and the quarter must match exactly on all drivers. Even an error of a couple of thousandths is enough to cause an improperly quartered mechanism to bind, twice each stroke. Beyond that, anything which causes any lockup between the drive gear and the motor can make the motor work too hard and possibly overheat. Start "doctorin'" your iron horse by manually checking the mechanism -- remove the motor, worm and gearbox so that the mechanism will run freely. Place the mechanism on a glass surface -- a large picture frame, baking dish, a tile floor, &c. Pu***he mechanism forward and watch the wheels -- all should turn freely, even on the glass. If they lock up anywhere, the problem lies either in the quartering or in the stroke adjustment at the motion plate (valve-gear holder). That is assuming you do not have a bent rod, axle, or valve-gear part. If the problem lies in the motion plate, then the mechanism will pass the glass-plate test with the valve gear disconnected at the eccentric. If not, you will have to requarter the drivers (all of them, so that the quarter matches). NWSL makes a jig for this, and you also will need a NWSL "Puller" to get the driver off. With drivers quartered and motion plate properly located, it is time to look at the drive gear: Is it squarely mounted in the center of the axle? If not, it needs to be reseated (don't forget to maintain the quarter when reinstalling the driver). Now, inspect the gearbox: Is there wear on the mounts which makes the axle "float" in the box? If so, replace the gearbox. Now, check both worm and spur with a ten-power glass (jeweler's loop): There should be no burrs or edges in any of the teeth or grooves. If there are, remove them carefully with a small file. What about the worm bearings? They also should not be worn, so that the worm on its shaft runs true. The worm, no more than the axle, should not float in its mounting. Another critical area is the interface between worm and spur -- the mesh of the gears must be neither too tight nor too loose. If you are using a commercial gearbox, this should not be a problem provided there has been no wear. To get the correct mesh, either CAREFULLY file the gearbox face at the cover (a couple file strokes each time and no more, since you always can go back and cut more) or, to increase spacing, add a shim plate (.005" brass filed down). Check the motor shaft to insure it (a) has not become bent; (b) is not crooked in terms of its alignment with the worm shaft. Most good steam-loco models are sprung, and this requires either a motor mounted by a solid arm attached directly to the gearbox or some kind of flexible or universal coupling between worm shaft and motor shaft. The former arrangement is better from a current-drawing perspective, but the latter is more common. And, while a flexible coupling will allow the motor to turn the worm shaft without binding, this part of the connection still can make a motor work harder than it should (primary cause for overheating). To change the angle of the connection of the shafts, file or shim the motor mount as appropriate, so that the two align in a straight line when the weighted locomotive is resting on the track. Now, look at the flywheel, if you have one. The flywheel must be square and perfectly balanced or it will vibrate as it rotates. To balance the flywheel, remove it and mount it on a pair of razor blades -- when rolled to a new position, if balanced, it should not roll back. If it does roll back, there is a heavy spot at the bottom (file CAREFULLY, a couple of strokes and no more), then retest. The last factor to consider is weight -- if the locomotive is too heavy, no matter how good the mechanism or motor, the motor will overheat. In this circumstance, the solution is either to remove weight or install a larger motor. N.B.: The larger motor does not necessarily pull more or work better; but, its larger size will enable it to dissipate more heat. There is one other trick to play: If the motor can be brought into contact with another metal part, that part can act as a heat sink and siphon away some of the heat building up in the motor. The last thing to think about is lubrication and breaking in. The motor, the bearings, the worm, the spur, the axles, the pistons, the side-rod posts, and the valve gear must be lubricated with the proper grade of oil, and the locomotive then should be run under no-load conditions (I mount mine in the air over a shoebox) for several hours in both directions (this tends to eliminate problems from any small burrs of other causes of friction which the modeler missed)). The foregoing regimen should eliminate most hot motors. One other cause of hot motors is weakening of the magnetic field because of improper disassembly of the motor (if you failed to install a "keeper" when you took the motor apart the last time, this could apply). Another cause is running the motor at high revs under heavy load on "pulse" power (make certain your throttle settings are correct). Finally, you might be just trying to pull too much! But, that would be a problem I can't solve, other than to call for a helper next time you see the hostler. Reply Anonymous Member sinceApril 2003 305,205 posts Posted by Anonymous on Wednesday, May 18, 2005 12:35 PM When my dad and I started building out first layout in about 20 years, I got some old AHM locos out of their boxes that I last used when I was a young tike back in the 80's... My son was running the DC throttle on this one particular C&NW diesel. He jacked the throttle up about 1/2 way to get it started rolling, and but the time that loco had run about 8 linear feet of track, it was smoking like crazy. We stopped the loco and took it off the track, looked it over and didn't lube it or anything, put it back on and ran it. All of the sudden it started running real nice - must have just been "locked up" a bit from sitting so long. We lubed it up and it is now the fastest loco in our fleet, by a bunch. Never gets hot, barely warm... I burned out a lightbuld in it and popped the shell off of it after a fairly long run-time, some at very high speed. Motor was just slightly warm to the touch. Reply Edit Anonymous Member sinceApril 2003 305,205 posts Posted by Anonymous on Wednesday, May 18, 2005 11:38 AM Motors get hot because they are loaded down. If a locomotive is properly tuned it should never get hot, a little warm maybe, but never hot. A hot motor is doing a slow (or fast) death. Take the shell off, clean up and lube the gears. You may need to shim the worm gear if there's too much lash. Use a thin teflon washer if you can find one, if not, use a brass one. You should also take the time to lightly lube the trucks. You can also scrub the motor armature down with a white pencil eraser to smooth it. Mark in Utah Reply Edit Anonymous Member sinceApril 2003 305,205 posts Posted by Anonymous on Wednesday, May 18, 2005 7:27 AM Some do, some don't. I have a couple of Bachmann N F7s that get distinctly warm while running and slow down over the course of about an hour's continuous run. I've had them in bits a few times, there's no obvious problems and the motor spins freely, so I have no idea what's causing this. I also have a Minitrix loco that must be a good 15 years old (has "Made in Western Germany" on the box) and has probably covered a good few miles (bought it used) that runs cool however long you leave it for - guess Minitrix motors are better than Bachmann! Reply Edit Vampire Member sinceMay 2004 From: California 176 posts Posted by Vampire on Wednesday, May 18, 2005 3:13 AM Many moons ago I remember receiving a Model Power E unit that ran terrible right from the get-go. It was very slow and erratic and it got quite warm after running awhile. The motor (a huge can type) always sounded like it was loaded down. One day I opened it up to see if I could explain the trouble and found there was not one drop of oil in the gear boxes. There were small piles of plastic filings inside from the gears grinding away! I cleaned and lubed the gears and that loco instantly became the best runner in my fleet for many years! I don't know if your loco is new or not, but this could be something to check. Reply Anonymous Member sinceApril 2003 305,205 posts Posted by Anonymous on Tuesday, May 17, 2005 9:24 AM A certain amount of heat is generated with all motors, but if you have a model that is getting very hot, it is drawing way too much current. Some of the older Athearn and other model engines would draw a high level of current under load and causing the motor to run hot. If you want to correct this, you would have to replace the motor with a new type. Reply Edit cacole Member sinceJuly 2003 From: Sierra Vista, Arizona 13,757 posts Posted by cacole on Tuesday, May 17, 2005 9:23 AM What brand and type of locomotive do you have? How much of a load were you pulling? How old is the locomotive? What scale are you talking about? At our HO-scale club's recent open house, we ran several locomotives, both steam and diesel, from 10:00 a.m. until after 6:00 p.m. pulling heavy loads uphill and had no problems at all with overheating. These locos were Bachmann Spectrum steamers and Kato diesels with can motors operating on DCC, pulling as many as 40 loaded coal hoppers. Reply Anonymous Member sinceApril 2003 305,205 posts Locomotive getting Hot. Posted by Anonymous on Tuesday, May 17, 2005 8:31 AM Has anyone ever had problems with their Locomotives getting very hot during an extended running period on your layout? I do know that if you run your Locomotives alot that the Motor can get quiet warm. Has the warm or hot motor ever caused the Locomotive shell to melt? Is'nt there a way to help keep the Motor cool during an extended use on the layout. I don't understand why the Modeling companys don't install small fans near the Motor to help keep the Engine cool. Thanks. BNSFrailfan. Reply Edit Subscriber & Member Login Login, or register today to interact in our online community, comment on articles, receive our newsletter, manage your account online and more! Login Register Users Online There are no community member online Search the Community ADVERTISEMENT ADVERTISEMENT ADVERTISEMENT Model Railroader Newsletter See all Sign up for our FREE e-newsletter and get model railroad news in your inbox! Sign up