Any fans of the CAB-FORWARD out there?

[AggroJones]

This is in response to the 'Does anyone like the N&W J?' thread. [:p]

ARE THERE ANY FANS OF THE ESPEE CABFORWARDS OUT THERE!!!!

YAHHHHH!!! WHOOOOOOO!!!! GO BIG ACs!!!!!!!!!

We need BLI to do the AC-6 and AC-12 next! Then we can have all the 4-8-8-2 styles!!!!!!!!!!!!!!!! YEAHHHHH!!!!!! [;)] [swg]

[twhite]

Silly question, Aggro--of COURSE there are cab-forward fans out here. Me, for one. AC-5, 6, and an Akane that could be anything from an 8 to a 12 (hard to tell with Akanes). Gorgeamous locomotives, just gorgeamous!!
Tom[:P][:P][:P]

[AggroJones]

YEAH!!!!!!!!!!!!!!!!!!!!!!!!!!!

[cspmo]

Yea yes, I think it's the most logical design, putting the crew in front of the boiler.
If there is a head on collision they will crush instead of been scalded to death.

[Anonymous]

Aggro,

About time somebody started a Cab-forward thread. I have visited the last remaining one in Sacramento (cab forward, not the thread) many times....Coolest loco ever. We need a big name modeler (are you listening Tony???) to convince LIfe Like P2K (or Bachmann or BLI etc..) to do some west coast steam....

[Anonymous]

It's not a Cab-Forward, of course, but no one has mentioned the AC 9, which was the best looking SP 4-8-8-2. I don't believe that anyone currently makes a model of this engine, but I wish someone would!

[cwclark]

even though i run diesel exclusively, i do like the SP cab forwards but don't run any of them...I like to look at pictures of them at the many ESPEE sites...Chuck

[Doug Goulbourn]

I have both a Balboa AC-12 and a Sunset AC-9 in my collection. A fan? Of course!

[Anonymous]

Big fan of the AC's here. Particularly the AC-11/12s and the AC9s (even though they weren't cabforwards). Rivarossi/Hornby recently announced HO Big Boys, so who knows, maybe an AC will follow.

[twhite]

QUOTE: Originally posted by momac34

It's not a Cab-Forward, of course, but no one has mentioned the AC 9, which was the best looking SP 4-8-8-2. I don't believe that anyone currently makes a model of this engine, but I wish someone would!

Angus--when you turn a 4-8-8-2 around, it becomes a 2-8-8-4. But you're right, the AC-9 was an incredibly handsome locomotive--I saw some in action on the Modoc line when I was a kid, after they'd been pulled from New Mexico and converted to oil. Interesting bit of history--when SP re-assigned them to Northern California, the AC-9's had to take the long way around via the Shasta Line and then onto the Modoc Line at Klamath Falls, because their boiler overhang was too much for the Sierra Nevada snowsheds on the Donner Pass line. Beautiful locomotives--especially when they'd be paired up with a cab-forward out of Madeline to tackle the stiff grades north to Alturas.
Tom [:D]

[tatans]

C'mon. it's simply a steam locomotive running backwards, it should be called a "back-frontsward" and what about a camelback? the cab almost made it to the front but stopped midway. Tell me the reason why all steam engines did NOT put cabs up front, hhmmmmm, Diesels had no problem figuring this out instead of putting cabs back behind 50 feet of engine, I would assume steam put cabs back behind 40-50 feet of boiler was because "thats the way it's always been done", Hooray for cab-forwards and for me they really rate up there very close to no.1 (a neat looking engine!!)

[palallin]

Many railroads ran their hood units with the cabs to the rear.

[tatans]

Wouldn't that put the engineer on the wrong side?? or am I missing something? maybe diesels have controls on both sides????

[markpierce]

I'm looking forward to Key Imports planned importation of SP's cab-forward MC-2 2-8-8-2s in HO. They also plan to bring the orginal MC-1 2-8-8-2 cab-rearward in both SP (two types) and UP versions. And I recall seeing used brass HO AC-9s listed on websites.

[camarokid]

Someday Aggro I'll have one or maybe more, but for now all I can do is dream about them on my railroad. Thank you for asking the question.
Archie

[Anonymous]

BLI has cab forwards, some with fan driven smole units, I could have picked one up at my LHS lately for 350 dollars, plus tax.

MAC

[Jetrock]

Part of the reason why cabs were traditionally in the back was because the tender is also in the back, and the fireman has to slug wood or coal from the tender into the firebox! Even with an automatic feed mechanism, as found on later steam engines, odd-sized chunks of coal getting shoved through a tube the entire length of an articulated engine might not be practical.

The cab-forwards, on the other hand, ran on bunker oil, which could be oozed through pipes up to the boiler, so no worries about automatic coal-feeding screws or a fireman having to lug buckets of coal along the top of the engine.

A lot of crews were concerned about safety--but one benefit of the cab-forward arrangement was better forward visibility, which increased safety-at least giving the crew a last-minute chance to "join the birds" if necessary. And diesels weren't all made with the cab in front--plenty of early diesels had the cab in the back, and lots of GP-7/9's were made to run long-nose forward.

About the cab of the AC-12: Hey 8500HP, if you ever make it out to Sacramento you can actually go inside the cab of the one remaining Cab-Forward on the planet and check out the controls for yourself! The engineer sat on the right, the fireman on the left. I'm sure there is a picture of the controls knocking about somewhere...

I work the Cab-Forward once in a while, typically covering breaks, when I work at the museum--personally I am fond of the smaller engines, but the Cab-Forward has its own brutish charms.

[AggroJones]

QUOTE: Originally posted by markpierce

I'm looking forward to Key Imports planned importation of SP's cab-forward MC-2 2-8-8-2s in HO. They also plan to bring the orginal MC-1 2-8-8-2 cab-rearward in both SP (two types) and UP versions. And I recall seeing used brass HO AC-9s listed on websites.

If you get one of them MCs, take lots of photos and post them on this forum. M'kay?

[West Coast S]

Just the other night it dawned on me that I have enough left over kit parts to build a 4-6-6-2 Cab Forward circa 1925... naw.. I wouldn't...would I?

[Anonymous]

Yeah, I'm a big fan of SP Cab Forwards, along with all big steam of the western roads.

I've got a Big Boy and a Challenger, watching for a good deal on a Cab Forward to add to my roster.

[Sunset Limited]

AggroJones,
Perfect topic! I love those cab forwards! [bow] Number one on my list and the Big Boy. I think they were great design during the steam era, it was never painted in any other colors like the GS-4 with passenger colors. It was just made to haul! I think they look better when they are weather beaten. I wasn't born during that golden age of heavy steam. but I have seen them through videos and one day I will go up to Sacramento and take a look at that beautiful machine! I have two Rivarossi cab forwards that run well after taking them apart and cleaning every part of it. Just seeing them run is beautiful! If I only had a time machine!

[markpierce]

QUOTE: Originally posted by AggroJones

QUOTE: Originally posted by markpierce

I'm looking forward to Key Imports planned importation of SP's cab-forward MC-2 2-8-8-2s in HO. They also plan to bring the orginal MC-1 2-8-8-2 cab-rearward in both SP (two types) and UP versions. And I recall seeing used brass HO AC-9s listed on websites.

If you get one of them MCs, take lots of photos and post them on this forum. M'kay?

Maybe I'll have a digital camera by then! Being MCs (mallet-consolidation), these will be compound engines, cuz when they were simplified in the late 20's, they become ACs (articulated-consolidation). I'm only aware of 3 compound articulateds on the S.P. that operated in the late steam era, two MM-3s (mallet-mogul) 2-6-6-2 acquired from the Verdi Tunnel and Smelter Railroad in 1943. I presume these were never simplified because they were acquired late in the steam area and scrapped in the early 50's. Division Point is planning on producing these in a couple of years, and I want one of those too. As far as I know, these MM-3s and the AC-9s are the only smokestack-first articulateds the SP had after 1930. The AC-9s were originally coal powered and operated on the Rio Grande Division, so that must be why they weren't cab forwards. They weren't converted to oil until 1950, just several years before retirement in 1954 through 56. Is my observation correct that S.P. articulateds originally equipped with two idler wheels under the firebox were originally built as compounds and those with four idler wheels under the firebox were originally built simple?

[Anonymous]

Yeah, I love the cab-forwards, they just make sense! It's obvious, after all, look at diesels today. As soon as they developed a fuel that could accomodate 'em, they built the engines. Long live the cab-forward! [8D][tup]

[johncolley]

Amen! and just so you know the gauntlet has been thrown, I sent an e-mail to Joe Fugate asking if a single or doubleheaded cab forward could be committed to DVD or video on the Siskiyou Line. We'll see, eh? By the way, I was an oiler at Oakland's Desert yard the night the last of 'em headed for Dunsmuir, but in my head I can still hear the air pumps. They was still runnin' to Roseville and Donner for a little while. BLI has got the cadence conductor my dad taught me when I was around 9 or 10 . Listen to 'em in the mountains "Heavy loaded, Sonsa b'ches" repeat that a few times!

[NHRRJET]

While my preference is big motors, especially those of the New Haven; I have always had a liking for the Cab-Forwards. When BLI came out with the gray-boilered flat-face, I just couldn't resist!

[Jetrock]

QUOTE: Yeah, I love the cab-forwards, they just make sense! It's obvious, after all, look at diesels today. As soon as they developed a fuel that could accomodate 'em, they built the engines. Long live the cab-forward!

Actually it didn't have as much to do with the fuel as the exhaust--the cab-forwards were used on the Overland Route, whose tunnels and snowsheds were made horrifyingly unbreathable by the fumes of large steam engines. The cab was put in front so crews wouldn't be asphyxiated by their own exhaust coming over the Sierras! They were used all over later in their career, but originally the configuration had more to do with breathability than visibility.

After all, other big steam engines built at the same time (like the Big Boy, etc.) were still built with traditional arrangements, and oil-burning locomotives go back as far as 1900 or so. Keep in mind that by "oil-burning" we don't mean gasoline, but rather bunker fuel--a thick goop about the consistency of Jell-O. Bunker fuel oil was used on the west coast, where oil was plentiful but coal was not.

[Anonymous]

Yeap. Big CabForward fan. Read the "Those amazing cab forward" book by George H. Harlan and you "hooked".

Tommy Andersson
member of JMJK
link: http://www.jmjk.se/default_eng.asp

[cwclark]

Jetrock is correct...they built the cab forward not for visibility issues but so that train crews wouldn't be asphyxiated by the locomotive's stack fumes when they went through tunnels...Chuck

[tatans]

OK BOYS: there are 3 cab-forwards for sale on ebay . 2 AC-12'c and an AC-7. Are you ready???? 1.=$480.00 2.=$600.00 3.= $ 1525.00. so you said you REALLY wanted one eh? here's your chance. I must say, they really looked nice. hmmmmm, don't I wish.

[Anonymous]

Hi fellow Cab Forward fans, I have two at the moment an Akane and one of the last Rivorossi. I hope one day some one else will again build. I am after another.
They are great looking loco, not having seen one in real life, unfortunately I live in Australia and best I can do to refer books and videos.