MR's New Format

[Anonymous]

How about some ideas of what MR should do with their pages of added space?

Don't get me wrong - I'm not complaining about their new features!

[Anonymous]

What added space?

Bob Boudreau

[cefinkjr]

QUOTE: Originally posted by FundyNorthern

What added space?

Bob Boudreau

Bob

If that wasn't a tongue-in-cheek remark, read From the Editor on page 6 of the June MR. I doubt most of us would have noticed if it weren't pointing out but maybe it's a big deal if you're in the business of counting column-inches in a magazine.

Chuck

[jfugate]

They shortened the table of contents from 2 pages to one and removed the event notices completely, making them a web-only feature. Should net several more pages for articles (or ads [:D]).

You want to find out the latest modeling events, swap meets, etc and you don't own a computer? Hey, go to the public library, says MR. Most public libraries have computers with free internet access ...

[Wdlgln005]

How does taking out the event news promote the hobby? Will MR sell ad space at the back of the magazine? So many small clibs relied on the space to get the message out. for travelers, I used to watch & see if I could attend an event at another city. Now that will no longer be possible.


Will MR also pull out the hobby shop listings, or is this all ad space?

[dehusman]

The could save space by not running the same performance charts for two different locomotives.

My copy had the same 2-8-8-2 performance charts for steamer and the N scale diesel. 8-)

Dave H.

[dehusman]

Actually I would lose the manufacturers directory and put back the show dates. If I want to look up a company I can Google it or read their ad. Its a lot tougher to find out when and where the shows are.

For a magazine that is supposed to be "promoting" the hobby, removing the listing of shows that promote the hobby to the general public seems counter productive.

Dave H.

[orsonroy]

QUOTE: Originally posted by dehusman

Actually I would lose the manufacturers directory and put back the show dates. If I want to look up a company I can Google it or read their ad. Its a lot tougher to find out when and where the shows are.

For a magazine that is supposed to be "promoting" the hobby, removing the listing of shows that promote the hobby to the general public seems counter productive.

Dave H.

I fully agree. The folks who run MR seem to be forgetting that the vast majority of people on this planet are NOT online, and that includes probably 70%+ of people in this hobby. Just because we here yak a lot doesn't mean that we're the majority.

I'm a member of the Rock River Valley Division of the NMRA, a division within easy driving distance of MR's offices. We have a pretty active group (almost as active and large as Madison's division, if that's any clue to the guys at MR). I'm one of the most web-enabled people at our monthly meets, which run to 80 members. I'll bet no more than 30% of our clubmembers have even SEEN the 'net, and we're talking guys with BIG layouts.

MR: do yourself and this hobby a favor and retain the calendar of events. Wanna get rid of something? Get rid of the classified ads (which have all goen to Ebay anyhow).

I do, however, applaude your shrinking the table of contents to one page. Remember what your magazine looked like in the 1980s? That ToC was perfect.

[IRONROOSTER]

QUOTE: Originally posted by dehusman

Actually I would lose the manufacturers directory and put back the show dates. If I want to look up a company I can Google it or read their ad. Its a lot tougher to find out when and where the shows are.
...

Dave H.

My guess is they pay for that.

As for the event listing - I haven't used that for years. My newspaper lists weekend events every Friday. The bigger events advertise also. And of course there is always the net.

MR has been shrinking and they have to make tough choices on their non advertising space. I think this is the right decision - free ads (which is what these are) which benefit only part of the readers are a luxury. More editorial content benefits all the readers.

[2c]

Enjoy
Paul

[Anonymous]

QUOTE: Originally posted by cefinkjr

QUOTE: Originally posted by FundyNorthern

What added space?
Bob Boudreau

Bob

If that wasn't a tongue-in-cheek remark, read From the Editor on page 6 of the June MR. I doubt most of us would have noticed if it weren't pointing out but maybe it's a big deal if you're in the business of counting column-inches in a magazine.

Chuck

OK, I see. We don't get our MR's locally so soon and I haven't seen the June issue yet. I wouldn't expect it around here until the end of this week or later.

Do they say in the magazine that local show listing are now on their web site, or do readers have to guess?

Someone mentioned they should lose the dealer listings - ain't gonna happen, as they are paid ads. When I first got back into the hobby over 20 years ago I would bring a recent copy of MR along with me when we vacationed in New England.

I found the listings to be more or less useless if one actually tried to find shops by what they said they carried. Most ads were fluff, and had no real indication of what the shops actually carried. "Complete scratchbuilding supplies" was especially a real farce - a few packages of stripwood and some Plastruct was about it. Anytime I inquired about something I thought they would have I always got the reply "We can order it for you". Hell, I can order if for me too!

Bob Boudreau

[Anonymous]

I agree Bob I went ot some hobby shop to see what they had casue they went on about being a train supply. One shelf about four foot by five foot with old athearn BB's
give me a break.

[CNJ831]

For somewhat of a change, I'm going to not only agree with MR's latest move but, in fact, applaud it heartily! The Contents were on a single page for decades and expanding it to two pages a while back just for looks was indeed a waste. I'd say that there probably are a couple more consolidations they could make along this line as well. I'm less certain about the choice of dropping the Events listings since, as someone else indicated, not everybody is on-line (particular the majority of older model railroaders). But if it gets more modeling copy into MR's dwindling page count, then I'm all for it.

Actually, I'm ranking the June '05 issue as the best (read most useful) in years. I think virtually every article this time out is useful to the average modeler. If every issue was like June's, I'd take out a lifetime subscription...and that's really something, coming from me!

CNJ831

[rogerhensley]

QUOTE: Originally posted by Wdlgln005

How does taking out the event news promote the hobby? Will MR sell ad space at the back of the magazine? So many small clibs relied on the space to get the message out. for travelers, I used to watch & see if I could attend an event at another city. Now that will no longer be possible.

Will MR also pull out the hobby shop listings, or is this all ad space?

Great! Now I have to renew my subscription to 'Model Railroad News' to keep up with what's happening. At this point, I can no longer think of a reason to keep MR as they have dropped virtually everything that I took it for. The articles certainly aren't worth the price.

[jfugate]

Roger:

So what's wrong with the articles? I'm just curious, because I submit article to the magazines and I'd like to make sure my articles are worth the price.

[Anonymous]

I belong to the Dayton Ohio NMRA group (Division 3) and have been publicity chair for our annual November train show for the last 2 years. This is our 30th year and the show is publicised primarily using flyers, newspaper ads and the events listings in magazines and on websites. Each year, we have a survey on our door prize forms to find out how people learned about the show and to build a mailing list for the next year's show. What we found out of 916 households who responded last time, 95 indicated that they saw the coming events listing in MR . In comparison, we only had 135 who indicated that saw the three much larger ads in the Dayton Daily News which is the primary paper in the region and only 1 person out of less than a dozen who responded that they found it on the web found it by using the listings on trains.com . In short, from what we saw in responses from this years show and from those in the past, the editors appear to be badly mistaken if they think that the web is where all the action is concerning reader activity and the events listings. Their conclusion is so radically different from the results we got that I am questioning whether this was a decision based on actually polling the readership or one made solely in an editorial meeting. Either way, it kind of reminds me of the Coca Cola Company a few years ago. Remember New Coke and the fiasco that created?.

In any case, the end result is that unless the coming events list is restored, it is one less avenue that will enable people to attend their first train show or exhibit or to find one in an unfamiliar area. I am sad to see them go as I too have used them when travelling; have seen some neat shows as a result and also because there are many shows that simply wont be able to afford an ad as the editors suggest. (Not to mention none of us will know where to look for them - in the regular pages or in the classifieds.)

Incidently, before this became public, about 2 months ago I inquired about MR's advertising rates and was quoted approximately $500 for a 1/12 page ad (2.25 inches by 3.75 inches) and was told about the planned demise of the coming events listings at that time. I explained to the person I talked to at that time that there are many groups that are going to have problems affording the rate so it wouldn't increase advertising revenue much and that I also didn't see how the elimination of a popular feature was going to help the magazine. The advertising department is aware of the problem but is blaming it on the editors. In fact, the rep I talked to encouraged me to write.the editorial staff as he thought it was a bad idea to remove the listings as well.

[Anonymous]

I have to give the magazine credit for getting me started on a layout. I've been a subscriber for 5 years and lately I've been thinking about dropping it. Let's face it there are only so many different ways you can write an article about wiring, weathering and benchwork. A lot of the recent articles deal with desert landscape. I model CP, not much desert landscape up here! I like to see articles about detailing on the cheap, like OLaf Melhouse's turnout stands and the like. I've also been enjoying DAvid Popp's Step by Step features. I NEVER read the classified ads, but like you say, they're revenue!
Andy

[rogerhensley]

QUOTE: Originally posted by jfugate

Roger:

So what's wrong with the articles? I'm just curious, because I submit article to the magazines and I'd like to make sure my articles are worth the price.

Just give them a pretty photo spread with no meat in it and you'll be a success. The detailed how to (how I did it) articles with details are missing.

Oh well... No further comments from this old duck.

[samgolden]

I always looked at the comming events columns, to get the date of the shows in my area. I will miss it. The Directory of Model Retailers I don't pay any attention to any more. There was a Train Shop in my area that was a little out of my way, that I used to go to, that closed/moved, but it was still listed in the directory at the same address for at least 5 years after I found out that the owner had died and the shop was closed. How may others were/are the same?

Sam

[simon1966]

Why does anyone decide to put hard earned dollars down to purchase a magazine like MRR? We do it because it provides entertainment and information. When I first get my new issue of MRR in the mail I nearly always give it a cursory glance to see what it contains of interest. I always look at the coming events page to see what is going on in my area. I frequently use the coming events page to see if there are events going on in places that I am travelling to on business. As far as this subscriber is concerned, they have eliminated one section of the magazine that I use every month. Will I stop taking the magazine because of this? Probably not, which is what they are banking on. no doubt the annual directory of historical societies will bite the dust as all non revenue pages and articles are gradually eliminated.

[Anonymous]

As someone who works in the magazine industry (15 years now...wow!) I feel comfortable saying that MR will likely fill free space with advertizing. Ads pay the bills. Sections advising us of when and where the next event is don't. Even if they generate some revenue, it wouldn't even be close to the rates a commercial ad would pull in. An unfortunate reality. And if the sales reps had there way the whole magazine would be ads!

Trevor

[bikerraypa]

QUOTE: Originally posted by TrevorG

As someone who works in the magazine industry (15 years now...wow!) I feel comfortable saying that MR will likely fill free space with advertizing. Ads pay the bills. Sections advising us of when and where the next event is don't. Even if they generate some revenue, it wouldn't even be close to the rates a commercial ad would pull in. An unfortunate reality. And if the sales reps had there way the whole magazine would be ads!

Trevor

Very true. I hate to see the event listings go as I use them in every issue. Also, as someone had previously mentioned, I'd like to see more how-to and "how I did it" articles as opposed to press releases for new locomotives disguised as "reviews." But, in a way I guess they are "following the prototype." Column inches are like ton miles....you don't build profit by dragging empties. It's still a good rag, and between it and RMC you can pretty much get what you need.


Ray out

[Attaboy]

I like the new format myself. I particularly like the more in depth information on the how-to articles. Too many times in the past, the articles seemed to assume a certain level of knowlege I didn't alway possess. Usually leading to more questions than answers.

I will miss the upcoming events section. I checked it out every month for events near home and in neighboring states. I can still it on the internet but I can't throw the computer in the truck to check it out while I'm traveling if I want to.

I would rather see them do away with the hobby shop listings and replace them with more profitable display ads to keep the upcoming events.

[jfugate]

I agree that ditching the coming events seems to be somewhat of a boo-boo on MR's part. For all the hoop-ta-lah around promoting the hobby (with things like the World's Greatest Hobby [WGH] intiative), this move seems to be a very anti WGH one.

Unfortunately, the trend at Kalmbach since the 60's seems to be more and more "formula business" minded and less from an altruistic love of the hobby.

I'm all for smart business, but sometimes small things say a lot to your readers.

As to internet usage, recent studies show 60% of Americans use the internet somewhat regularly, and 75% of Americans have an email address. However, only 30% of Americans are online daily. And only 22% of seniors have an email address.

That means somewhere around 70% of your potential audience does not get online daily. Moving a "heart of promoting the hobby" out of the hands of easy access to your audience doesn't sound like a wise move to me.

Basically, moving to "online only" immediately cuts your audience in half, and biases it heavily toward the young.

[jwr_1986]

I have to say the contents change is OK but put the Coming events back. Of all the places to save space. That is litterally the first place I look. I have a slow dialup connection and wasting time finding another section on a website just doesn't do it for me. Of the 7 members in my club I am the only one who regularly uses the internet so hows that for a statistic. If they make any more changes like this I'm going to cancel my subscription and read it at the library. What's up with the repeat graphs and where are the right ones? That's just a glaring error.

Jesse

[JohnT14808]

I too will miss the Events section, but I plan on doing something about it. If everyone here commenting about it would take a moment to "pen" a letter to Kalmbach Publishing ( NOT an email!) at the address in the small print at the bottom of the SINGLE TOC page of the June issue, it may help.
Don't make your letter an obnoxious rant....just explain what you feel in open, honest terms. Keep it short and sweet....and flood them with letters. May work if the modeling public speaks up.

[dehusman]

I would think that every officer of every region and every division of the NMRA should make it a point to stop by the Kalmbach exhibit at the National Convention and "thank" them for their support of their train shows and meets.

Remind them that just as we can find the show schedules on line, we can just as easily find all their advertisers on-line too.

Dave H.

[Pruitt]

Personally, I'd like to see the old Bull Session come back. The one out of the early 70s, with Spike Trail, Boomer Pete and Ray L. Rhoades. I really enjoyed those fictional conversations they had - they were well written and generally made some good points about different aspects of the hobby.

I guess I'm really dating myself, huh?

[IRONROOSTER]

QUOTE: Originally posted by Brunton

Personally, I'd like to see the old Bull Session come back. The one out of the early 70s, with Spike Trail, Boomer Pete and Ray L. Rhoades. I really enjoyed those fictional conversations they had - they were well written and generally made some good points about different aspects of the hobby.

I guess I'm really dating myself, huh?

[#ditto]

I'd like to see that come back myself.
Enjoy
Paul

[davekelly]

[#ditto][#ditto] I loved reading Bull Session (and still do when I pull up my old issues). Always left one thinking about things. Kinda like Tony Koester does now. But I still would like to Bull Session come back.

[jfugate]

QUOTE: Originally posted by dehusman

Remind them that just as we can find the show schedules on line, we can just as easily find all their advertisers on-line too.

Dave H.

Dave:

Excellent point. In my earlier post about how much people use the internet, I noted that you immediately cut your audience in half by going to online only.

If this is such a great idea, how about saving even more space in the magazine and moving all the advertisements to online only? I'm sure they wouldn't sit still for cutting the potential audience in half.

It's the same rationale. People will see the ads when they browse the web at their local library, so what's the problem? [:D]

Then you could use all 100+ pages of the magazine for articles .. so how about it MR?