Mantua 0-4-0 Shifter repower/regear?

[ocalicreek]

Hello All,

I've inherited an old Mantua 0-4-0 "shifter" with slope back tender. The previous owner took pretty good care of it as the original motor still responds fairly well. On clean track with clean wheels it moves along fine.

However, I'd really like to get the starting voltage down and lower the overall top speed to turn this into a creepy-crawly switch engine. I recently purchased an MRC steam synchro sound system and am very pleased with it. However getting it to line up with the shifter has been tough, as the engine's speed isn't consistent and as already mentioned, the starting voltage is so high. I'm still running DC and plan to go DCC but not anytime soon.

My first step is to change out the old deep flange half brass tender trucks and add all wheel pickup there. But after that I'm not sure what might be the best way to proceed. I've looked over the NWSL site and read a few of their tip pages on repowering/regearing and I remember reading that to do both is overkill.

I"ve also checked out a-line's website, bowser, and accurate lighting's pages for their options. This loco has been around a while and has an almost solid cast boiler. Seems like the advice on sites like the above mentioned is written for the later plastic boiler with weight insert. Mine is a one piece solid cast boiler, not plastic with the insert.

So any advice on how to proceed would be greatly appreciated. Thanks,

Galen Gallimore

[nfmisso]

Galen;

See: http://www.alliancelink.com/alp/160.htm

I would not re-motor it, just give it a thorough tune up.

[ocalicreek]

The alliance replacement motor/gear set appears to be designed to fit the Mantua later plastic body with metal weight insert. Mine has a solid metal boiler. I'm willing to do a bit of grinding with the dremel, but would rather not if it's not necessary.

It does run well with a tune-up (actually the first thing I did when I got it), just not well slowly.

I'm specifically looking for more consistent speed at low speeds (no slow start then speed up all on its own once the motor gets going). I'm using an MRC power pack, so no toy train set, came with the loop of track power pack here. So I don't think the power has that much to do with it.

Galen

[CNJ831]

Galen, before you begin any rehab project on this locomotive, consider that it is (with the cast body) the child of early 1950's hobby technology. Remotoring or even regearing may not result in an engine that operates like current quality examples...or even moderately satisfactorily.

The first thing I would do is to evaluate the free rolling characteristics of the engine. Remove the motor and roll the locomotive back and forth slowly on a sheet of glass. Do the wheels roll very freely and valve gear operate without the slightest hesitation or sticking? The modeler had to hand peen the valve gear/connecting rods together if it came originally as a kit and often such efforts were decidedly sub par. Unless the engine passes this first test with flying colors, I wouldn't consider trying to upgrade it without addressing that problem first (new valve gear/rod set, possibly bearing, etc.).

CNJ831

[mcouvillion]

Galen,

You can slow down the engine a little with a diode bridge. I used them in my DC engines to get constant intensity, bi-directional lighting. Each diode has a voltage drop of 0.7 volts. There are three diodes used in the circuit for each bulb, one to protect the bulb and two to light the bulb. You can add more diodes in series (outside the lighting circuit) if you want it to go slower.

Take a 1 amp, 50 PIV (Peak Inverse Voltage) bridge rectifier (about 79c at Radio Shack) and connect it in series with the motor. Use a 1N4001 diode connected between the + and - terminals of the rectifier, with the banded end of the diode connected to the - terminal of the rectifier. The ~ terminals of the rectifier connect to one track pickup and one pole of the motor (the other pole of the motor is left connected as normal). If all you want to do is slow down the motor, insulate the leads and you are through. If you would like to add constant intensity, bi-directional lighting, read on.

Using 1.5 volt bulbs, connect one wire of the bulb to the + connection and the other wire to one of the leads to the ~ connection. (You can use the extra lead from the 1N4001 diode at the + terminal.) Connect a second 1.5 volt bulb to the - lead and the same location for the second wire as the first on the ~ lead. As you apply voltage to the engine, one bulb should be fully bright and one will be dim. Change the polarity (direction) and the dim bulb will go bright and the bright bulb will dim. As your speed increases, the bulbs' brightness will not change. The diodes will slow the engine somewhat, resulting in a more realistic operating model. If you need it to go slower, add more diodes, but you will need to use pairs or more rectifiers in series. There was a recent article in Model Railroader (about 6 months ago) where someone used a bunch of rectifiers in series to drop the voltage to a turntable for DCC control. Looked real funky but apparently worked.

If you have any questions, e-mail me. Good luck.

Mark C.

[Anonymous]

There are several ways to go.
1. Tuneup. Take the locomotive apart as far as possible without undoing the valve gear. Clean the driver axle bearings, the cylinder slides and anything else that moves. Clean the motor commutator with solvent on a Q tip. Inspect the worm and driver gear for lunched threads and correct same with a needle file. Check brushes and bru***ension. With everything clean and lubed, roll the chassis less motor back and forth checking for any binding in the rods and valve gear. If the rods are binding try a very careful enlargement of the holes. Don't overdo. Then check driver quartering. The drive rod pins need to be at 90 degrees from each other between the left and right driver. Not only that but BOTH drivers need to have the same quartering. For model purposes is is more important that the drivers match each other than that they be exactly 90.
Given that the chassis (drivers, rods and valve gear) are smooth and don't stick, put everything back together. Check and adjust the clearance between the worm gear and the spur gear on the driver axle. Too tight and friction slows you down. Too loose and the worm skips teeth. Use shims or file stuff down to get the clearance just right.
It may well be that this gives good enough performance. The Mantua drive mechanisms are pretty good right out of the box.
2. Remotor with a can motor. Mantua made Retrofit Kit 812 which fits the 0-4-0 Shifter and nearly every other Mantua Steamer. Kit consists of a can motor and and bracket and goes in without filing or machining. I put it into a Mantua Pacific with nothing more than hand tools. This conversion gave fantastic low speed performance, the loco will creep forward tie by tie. Once upon a time you could order Kit 812 from Mantua by calling 856-853-0300 between the hours of 8:30 and 12:00 EST. Perhaps who ever picked up the Mantua product line still sells parts.
3. Go the NWSL route. They offer replacement gear boxes and motor mounts. I thought about this once but the project bogged down when I could not determine just what would fit from reading the NWSL catalog and phone help from NWSL didn't improve matters much.

[nfmisso]

QUOTE: Originally posted by ocalicreek

The alliance replacement motor/gear set appears to be designed to fit the Mantua later plastic body with metal weight insert. Mine has a solid metal boiler. I'm willing to do a bit of grinding with the dremel, but would rather not if it's not necessary.

Galen;

Either you do not understand the terminology, or you did not read the instruction on the link I posted above, first;

1. Remove die-cast boiler

I have never seen a Mantua/Tyco 0-4-0 (with tender) that did not have a metal die-cast boiler. I have seen Mantua/Tyco 0-4-0T models with a plastic injection molded boiler.

Bowser has replacement rivets available that will fit Mantua locomotives.

NWSL has motors and gearboxes that can be adapted, but much more work than the Alliance option.

Mark's suggestion is excellent, as is C60's