Bachmann UP FEF-1: Opinions?

[Anonymous]

Thanks Peter! I didn't know my 0-6-0 was relitivaly accurate! I'll have to find a way to fix it now though (snapped some piping off it yesterday while trying to get the ***ed boiler off. Fiesty little bugger! 0-6-0:1 Jonathon:0).
I was also beginning to think that a centipiede tender might also be a bit longer than the tenders on the FEF-1s. But hey, as long as it comes close, who cares[?]

[M636C]

Jonathon,

Don't believe everything that people say about Bachmann and accuracy. There was at least one grey switcher, used at LAUPT, I believe. It wasn't a USRA design loco, but it was an 0-6-0 and did have a small Vanderbilt tender, so keep using that 0-6-0. I've thought about getting one, even though it isn't quite the right prototype.

The "boxes" at the bottom of the tender front on the "centipede" tender are bigger than on the early 800 tender, and the tank may be a bit longer overall, but otherwise it looks very similar, apart from the wheels.

On the subject of wheels, the coupled wheels on the Bachmann are smaller than on the Rivarossi, so that should look right.

Peter

[Anonymous]

Peter,

Thanks for the tips about the tender. I do have a Monogram Big Boy kit and I suppose I could use the tender from that. I'll have to dig through my files to find some of my FEF-1 pictures.

I was thinking maybe using the headlight from an old Rivarossi FEF-3 for the headlight and repainting one of the Rivarossi UP shields for the shield below the headlight.

I'd like to keep it in the "Gray Hound" scheme, which is the silver and gray with yellow stripes. The other version, with the silver and gray with silver stripes is often reffered to as the "Two-Tone Gray" Scheme. I have a Bachmann 0-6-0 dressed in it, but I doubt any UP 0-6-0s were painted that way.

Thanks for your help so far! I'll keep you guys posted on this.

[M636C]

Well, we should look at how to make look more like an FEF-1, then! Assuming you don't want to do major work, I'd look at removing, as carefully as possible, the steam pipes between the dome and steam turret. These are an add-on, not moulded in place, so that shoudnt be too hard. The dome and turret are black, so matching the paint should be easy. then remove the retractable stack mechanism around the chimney, and touch up the paint - try to match the silver before you try that!

If you can't find a Rivarrossi tender, you might try to get one of the static plastic "Big Boy" kits (Revell make one) and use that body in conjunction with the the trucks from the existing Bachmann tender. You could then use the front number boards and maybe other parts from the 4000 to dress up the 800.

There is a copy of "Stramliner" that specifies the correct grey colours for painting the tender. Both silver and grey stripes were used - I assume the Bachmann, like the Rivarossi, have yellow stripes, which are correct for use with the yellow "streamliner" cars. My 836 has yellow stripes, but I have a set of two tone grey cars (with silver stripes) 1to run with it. I am getting yellow cars, though!

Peter

[Anonymous]

Well Peter, what's done is done. I just got one for cheap on ebay.

I also have steam glory and I'll have to relook at those measurements. About the tender, perhaps a good solution would be to take an older Rivarossi Centipiede and put 6 axle wheel (or was it 4 axle?) buckeye trucks on it.

I know it might be easiar to just buy an FEF-3 and back date it, but I really don't have that kind of money. I just bought the Bachmann for something fun. I really don't care if it looks right or not. It should be a fun challenge to bring it closer to an actual FEF-1.

There's also the option of a brass FEF-1. But, well, $$$$$$$..............

[M636C]

Jonathon,

The Bachmann tender is a Vanderbilt, with a cylindrical tank with a rectangular bunker at the front. It is similar to tenders on some UP locomotives, the 4-12-2s and earlier locomotives. All the photos I have of FEF-1s show water bottom tenders, basically rectangular tenders with a curve where the rivetted sides meet the one piece cast floor which forms the frame. The shape of the tank is the same, whether the frame was a frame with trucks or a centipede bed. The FEF-1 tender is 20000 gallons, the FEF-3 tender is 23500 gallons. The wheelbase of the FEF-1 is 97'6", the wheelbase of the FEF-3 is 98'5", ie 11 inches longer in full size, less than 1/8" in HO. So the FEF-3 tender is about the same size as that on the FEF-1 (figures from Kalmbach's recent "Steam Glory")

As for the tender shape, all the photos in "Steam Glory" show tender tanks of the same shape as the FEF-3. With other books, I have photos of 800, 802, 815 and 818. This includes locos in both black and two tone grey. I haven't been able to find the builder's photo I have of an FEF-1, but my recollection is that it shows the same tender. The Bachmann tender is much smaller than the FEF-1 tender, as well as being the wrong shape. The number of items to be changed to make the Bachmann AT&SF 3765 look like an FEF-1 is larger than the changes needed to make an FEF-3 look like an FEF-1.

If you can't make the easy changes, I don't recommend the hard ones on the Bachmann!. If you want to run the Bachmann mainly as it is, go right a ahead, but you asked for my opinion, and my opinion is that you won't be happy, because the Bachmann, even with a new mechanism, won't look as good as the Rivarossi!

Peter

[Anonymous]

Tom,

Backdating one of the Rivarossi FEF-3s would be extremely difficult. The FEF-1s had smaller tenders (believe it or not, the bachmann has one of the correct tenders), smaller drivers and really an overall different appearence than an FEF-3 and an FEF-2.

By looking at photos of actual FEF-1s, The Bachmann FEF-1, though an ATSF prototype, comes freakishly close to an actual FEF-1. If I remotored it with a Bowser Drive and added a few extra details, the Bachmann could become a pretty good loco.

[twhite]

Just my [2c] worth, Jonathan, but I think since you have the Rivarossi FEF-3, you'll probably be pretty disappointed with the running characteristics of the Bachmann. I had one of their earlier 4-8-4's (the Santa Fe prototype), and it was a very noisy runner, a poor puller and had really bad slow-speed control. Also, those lines and contours on the Bachmann loco pretty much scream "Baldwin" (which produced almost all of Santa Fe's steam power), while most UP steam power was built by ALCO. Just a thought--since I'm not really that familiar with the UP FEF series--would it be possible to find another Rivarossi and perhaps 'back-date' it into an FEF-1? Just wondering--
Tom [:D]

[M636C]

QUOTE: Originally posted by 4884bigboy

QUOTE: Originally posted by M636C

Unless this is a new product with which I am unfamiliar, the Bachmann UP 4-8-4 is a model of the AT&SF 3765 class 4-6-4 painted grey, fitted with a Vanderbilt tender and lettered for UP. It doesn't appear as current production on the Bachmann Website, so it will most likely be an old production locomotive.

I purchased one of the AT&SF units maybe 20 years ago. I haven't run it much, but it ran reasonably by the standards of that time for a reasonably low price locomotive. The detail, as an AT&SF unit was reasonable, but not up to the standard of Rivarossi, for example.

The Rivarossi FEF-3 is the only plastic UP 4-8-4 I know of, and a recent one of these would be prefereable in most respects to the Bachmann model, since it actually is a model of a UP locomotive. I have one of those in UP grey, and apart from being noisy, and having deeper than normal flanges (corrected on later models) it runs well and is quite powerful while being able to run around very sharp curves with no problems other than looking a bit odd.

If there is a more recent Bachmann UP 4-8-4 that isn't just a repaint of the AT&SF locomotive, I'd like to know about it.

The main difference between the FEF-1 and FEF-3 was the tender (on two three axle trucks for the "-1", a centipede for the "-3", and the double chimney on the "-3" compared to a single chimney on the "-1".

Peter

Oh trust me Peter, I know all about the differences between UP's FEFs. I actually have one of the latest runs of FEF-3s from Rivarossi, #844. Fine looking and running machine.

I know that the FEF-1 is actually an ATSF 4-8-4, but, it still comes within the ball park of a stock FEF-1. With a few details added, this locomotive could be brought closer to an actual FEF-1.

OK, I admit that I didn't mention the the FEF-1 driving wheels should be 3/87" (less than 1mm) smaller in an HO model than those on an FEF-3. I must also admit that I was surprised how (superficially) similar the Bachmann locomotive looked like a UP locomotive, but there are too many basic differences in the prototypes to make a convincing FEF-1 out of the Bachmann model. The Bachmann tender is an earlier type than that used on the FEF-1, and you might be better off starting with the Rivarrossi FEF-3 tender tank and modifying it to take trucks rather than the "4-10-0" centipede bed.
The Santa Fe cab has very different cab side windows, and more significantly has a sloping front wall, to allow easier access to the firebox stay bolts, while the FEF-1 (2 and 3 also) has a vertical cab front plate. The cab roof curvature is much less (larger radius) on the ATSF locomotive. The shape of the steam turret cover on the ATSF unit is different, and the FEF-1 lacks the two large steam pipes between the dome and the turret seen on the ATSF loco.

I think it would be easier all around to modify an FEF-3, ignore the very slightly bigger wheels, fit a single chimney and a steam dome behind the sand dome. Convert the tender to run on two three axle trucks and you will have something that looks a lot more like a "small 800" than the Bachmann model. Take the smoke deflectors off for an early period model.

You could just go for an FEF-2 in 1940 condition without smoke deflectors, or just get an FEF-3 in a different colour to your 844 (grey if yours is black, or vice versa)

I have my ATSF 3781 and my UP 836 in front of me as I write this, and the PFM book "Northerns" open at the UP pages. My feeling is that if you are really interested in UP steam, the Bachmann 4-8-4 is not for you!

You asked for opinions, and that's mine!

If you just want a 4-8-4 in UP grey, and are not worried about the details, give the Bachmann a try. But looking at the two here, the Rivarossi looks so much better than the Bachmann (even with both in correct colours) that I think you would be disappointed when the two were together.

Peter

[Don Gibson]

THE BACHMANN 4-8-4 IS A 'DOG'- mechanically.
The Rivarossi FEF 4-8-4 is better.
The BOWSER mechanism with the Bachmann SHELL would be a winner.
A Bowser machanism with the Rivarossi shell would be better yet.

[Anonymous]

"still comes within the ball park of a stock FEF-1. With a few details added, this locomotive could be brought closer to an actual FEF-1"

Jonathon,
Do you have a picture of the Bachmann 4-8-4 or some detailed measurements? I'm a little confused over what you are really after as it seems you already know your UP 4-8-4 information. I guess I don't have a feeling for how much you are willing to compromise. I briefly had a Bachmann UP 4-8-4 many years ago and mine was a relatively poor runner. Once I realized the engine was a Sante Fe prototype and not really UP, I sold it. If you are interested in getting a relatively accurate model, you would need to see if the boiler was reasonably close in size, front and rear trucks were close in appearance, cab appearance, piping, etc. and it sounds like you are already aware of those things. It all depends upon what you want and are willing to accept as an FEF-1. Only you can decide that. If you are asking only for opinions, you have gotten all negative ones so far. If you already know the details about the Bachmann, perhaps you should be telling us about it rather than the other way around.
Charles

[Anonymous]

Charles,

The FEF-3s and 2s had 80" drivers. Yes, I'm aware Brass is the only way to get an accurate FEF-1 (and FEF-2, for that matter), but if I get this I'll atleast have something close.

[Anonymous]

Drivers, 77" vs 80", sand domes and pilots are all different too on an FEF-1. I'm not sure what size the Rivarossi FEF-3 wheels are but they could actually be closer to the 77" FEF-1 since most models tend to have undersized wheels due to the larger than scale flanges. A brass import engine is the only way you will get an "accurate" FEF-1.
Charles

[Anonymous]

QUOTE: Originally posted by M636C

Unless this is a new product with which I am unfamiliar, the Bachmann UP 4-8-4 is a model of the AT&SF 3765 class 4-6-4 painted grey, fitted with a Vanderbilt tender and lettered for UP. It doesn't appear as current production on the Bachmann Website, so it will most likely be an old production locomotive.

I purchased one of the AT&SF units maybe 20 years ago. I haven't run it much, but it ran reasonably by the standards of that time for a reasonably low price locomotive. The detail, as an AT&SF unit was reasonable, but not up to the standard of Rivarossi, for example.

The Rivarossi FEF-3 is the only plastic UP 4-8-4 I know of, and a recent one of these would be prefereable in most respects to the Bachmann model, since it actually is a model of a UP locomotive. I have one of those in UP grey, and apart from being noisy, and having deeper than normal flanges (corrected on later models) it runs well and is quite powerful while being able to run around very sharp curves with no problems other than looking a bit odd.

If there is a more recent Bachmann UP 4-8-4 that isn't just a repaint of the AT&SF locomotive, I'd like to know about it.

The main difference between the FEF-1 and FEF-3 was the tender (on two three axle trucks for the "-1", a centipede for the "-3", and the double chimney on the "-3" compared to a single chimney on the "-1".

Peter

Oh trust me Peter, I know all about the differences between UP's FEFs. I actually have one of the latest runs of FEF-3s from Rivarossi, #844. Fine looking and running machine.

I know that the FEF-1 is actually an ATSF 4-8-4, but, it still comes within the ball park of a stock FEF-1. With a few details added, this locomotive could be brought closer to an actual FEF-1.

[M636C]

Unless this is a new product with which I am unfamiliar, the Bachmann UP 4-8-4 is a model of the AT&SF 3765 class 4-6-4 painted grey, fitted with a Vanderbilt tender and lettered for UP. It doesn't appear as current production on the Bachmann Website, so it will most likely be an old production locomotive.

I purchased one of the AT&SF units maybe 20 years ago. I haven't run it much, but it ran reasonably by the standards of that time for a reasonably low price locomotive. The detail, as an AT&SF unit was reasonable, but not up to the standard of Rivarossi, for example.

The Rivarossi FEF-3 is the only plastic UP 4-8-4 I know of, and a recent one of these would be prefereable in most respects to the Bachmann model, since it actually is a model of a UP locomotive. I have one of those in UP grey, and apart from being noisy, and having deeper than normal flanges (corrected on later models) it runs well and is quite powerful while being able to run around very sharp curves with no problems other than looking a bit odd.

If there is a more recent Bachmann UP 4-8-4 that isn't just a repaint of the AT&SF locomotive, I'd like to know about it.

The main difference between the FEF-1 and FEF-3 was the tender (on two three axle trucks for the "-1", a centipede for the "-3", and the double chimney on the "-3" compared to a single chimney on the "-1".

Peter

[Anonymous]

QUOTE: Originally posted by 4884bigboy

Hi Guys. I've been looking into an HO Bachmann UP FEF-1 4-8-4 steamer. I know some people may grown at the sound of that name, but it's the only plastic FEF-1 out there today and the detail is actually pretty good.

So, does anyone have one? How does it perform (running characteristics, pulling, ect.)?

The shell and drive train is identical to the Santa Fe Bachmann engine, since that is really what it is. Bachmann used a different tender and paint, but it is still a model of a Santa Fe engine.

[Anonymous]

Hi Guys. I've been looking into an HO Bachmann UP FEF-1 4-8-4 steamer. I know some people may grown at the sound of that name, but it's the only plastic FEF-1 out there today and the detail is actually pretty good.

So, does anyone have one? How does it perform (running characteristics, pulling, ect.)?