What Have I Got Here????

[cefinkjr]

OK, Old Timers. Here's your chance to show your stuff (and demonstrate that your memory hasn't deserted you as mine has).

While refurbishing a bunch of very old box cars, I stumbled across one with holes in the floor. I could see something through those holes but wasn't sure what it was. I opened up the car -- the shell was attached to the floor with a small screw at each corner which tells you how old this thing is -- and this is what I found:



The box car floor is cast metal (pot metal? Zamac?), has the brake cylinder, reservoir, and triple valve cast as part of the floor, and has the name 'VARNEY' molded on it. The unusual pieces appear to be factory made specifically for this car (as opposed to created by some unknown modeler or as an add-on kit). Yes, those are common rubber bands -- stretched and about to fall apart after 30 some years in storage -- around the horizontal and vertical shafts at each end of the floor.

The box car shell has obviously been repainted at least once so the original lettering is not readily available. It does have a slot -- maybe 1/8" wide -- running nearly the full length of the car. This is now hidden from the outside of the car by a roof walk but that may not be original.

The original trucks have long since been lost (I received the car "less t/c") but they had to have had truck-mounted couplers. As you can see from the photos, I'm going to have to cement some sort of hole-filling pads to the floor to be able to mount couplers on it.

A couple of us looked at this box car. We guessed that there might have originally been a slotted roof walk and a brakeman attached to a continuous belt driven by the white plastic rollers at the top of the vertical shafts. Additional rubber bands from the trucks to the horizontal shaft would have made that brakeman run back and forth from one end of the car to the other while it was in motion.

Can anybody shed some light on this?

Chuck

[gvdobler]

Your analysis sounds more probable if it were an O scale Lionel type. They used to do a lot of animation. It could be parts of a momentum system to keep the car rolling by itself.

Someone will know for sure.

Jon-Las Vegas

[cefinkjr]

QUOTE: Originally posted by gvdobler

more probable if it were an O scale Lionel type.

That's about what one of the guys said: "Sounds more like Lionel than Varney".

Still wondering. [%-)]


Chuck

[Anonymous]

It might possibly be a car to detect rough handling, similar to one the legendary John Allen had. His had a very large ball bearing in a track that could roll from one end to another. If it went all the way to one end a light would be lit, indicating too rough handling. I recently read somewhere that Varney or another firm actually made one. This could be one.

Bob Boudreau

[cefinkjr]

QUOTE: Originally posted by FundyNorthern

It might possibly be a car to detect rough handling,

Bob,

That's exactly what I was hoping I had when I opened it. But this was apparently some sort of mechanical thing driven off the axles.

If I could locate a ball bearing of appropriate size, it might yet be a rough handling detector. That cast metal floor is certainly strong enough to remain flat while a pair of rails are forced to flex above it. (I think I recall that John Allen's car had an adjusting screw in the middle that changed the curvature of the rails and thus the sensitivity of the car.)

Didn't Allen use a ball from a pin ball machine? That wouldn't be so easy to find either.

Chuck

[tatans]

Please someone! we must know what this thing was for, I've been staring at it for an hour with no luck, c'mon someone MUST know. I see no connection to the wheels.

[cwclark]

there used to be a box car put out by tyco that had an electronic push button and the doors would open and boxes were thrown out the door by a man in the reefer..I don't think that's the mechanism ..the only other "thing" iv'e seen like that was an Athearn rotory snow plow that had a rubber band drive but i don't think that's it either...maybe it was one of those old circus train boxcars that used to have a banner and clowns that rolled around the top of the car...hummmm...don't know....Chuck

[dinwitty]

I tend to think the car had some aperatus from the wheels, and the former owner removed it, perhaps caused too many accidents...? hehe
might not even be the original shell

[cefinkjr]

QUOTE: Originally posted by dinwitty

I tend to think the car had some aperatus from the wheels, and the former owner removed it, perhaps caused too many accidents...? hehe
might not even be the original shell

I think you're right that this mechanism (whatever it is) was driven from the wheels. The large, unusual holes in the floor would have allowed rubber bands around the axles to pass around the horizontal shafts. You're probably also right that the former owner removed the axle drive. Even if it didn't cause a lot of derailments, it probably acted like an anchor and slid more than rolled.

I tend to think that this is the original shell though. At least, it's the only 40' box car I've ever seen with a slot under the roof walk.

Chuck

[cacole]

Looking at it from a mechanical standpoint, if it had a figure of a clown or other character that ran back and forth along the roof, the car would need to have been pulled back and forth; otherwise, the mechanism would pull the character to one end and then the rubber bands would just slip on the axles because it couldn't go any further unless there were enlarged slots at the ends so the character could be pulled around the pulleys and reverse direction.

I was alive and kicking during the Varney years, but unfortunately was not into model railroading then and have never seen anything like this.

[Doug Goulbourn]

I seem to remember that Tyco(Mantua) had something similiar to a Lionel animated brakeman that "ran" around the top of a boxcar(although this does not explain the "Varney" cast into the frame). This would explain the open slot in the boxcar roof. If I get a chance to look through some of my late 50's - early 60's MRRs maybe I will find an ad for this piece.

Doug

[mcouvillion]

cefinkjr,

I think your guestimate that it had a brakeman or something else running on the roof of the car is probably accurate. If a rubberband was stretched from both axles to the horizontal "axle" on the mechanism, forming a traingle, the movement of the car down the track would have powered the vertical "axle". With a long rubber band or possibly a string stretched between both white spindles of the vertical axles, it is possible that something moved the length of the car, back and forth, in the slot now under the roofwalk. Is there anything on the inside of the carbody shell that would help align the mechanism to the shell? I bet the "brakeman" was a flat figure, attached to the long rubberband, that slid up through the slot, so from a distance it appeared to be a man running / walking on the roof. The trucks would have to attach to the same screw / bolt holding the end mechanisms in place for all the axles to stay in alignment as it rolled down the track. The car would also need a bunch of weight added for it to function properly, otherwise it would just drag the wheels. You could probably fabricate what you need if you take your time and experiment a little. Looks like a neat addition to your collection.

Mark C.

[dinwitty]

QUOTE: Originally posted by cefinkjr

QUOTE: Originally posted by dinwitty

I tend to think the car had some aperatus from the wheels, and the former owner removed it, perhaps caused too many accidents...? hehe
might not even be the original shell

I think you're right that this mechanism (whatever it is) was driven from the wheels. The large, unusual holes in the floor would have allowed rubber bands around the axles to pass around the horizontal shafts. You're probably also right that the former owner removed the axle drive. Even if it didn't cause a lot of derailments, it probably acted like an anchor and slid more than rolled.

I tend to think that this is the original shell though. At least, it's the only 40' box car I've ever seen with a slot under the roof walk.

Chuck

is it one long slot along the length of the car?
That sounds like some little character could be walking on top of the car, the white roller things had to have some band attached, but allowed slippage so the car could roll.
I have old MR/RMC mags I could check the Ads.
The axles could have had large diameters and maybe 2 bands running up
to turn the 1 upper roller, the bands stretching across both axles.

[canazar]

Ill take a stab, not much expeirence in train cars, and my age hasnt allowwed me to see much (only 30) but I do have alot of expierence with cars and 4x4's. And one thing I have learned, just becuase it is, donesnt mean it is supposed to be.

Example, if you didnt know much about what engines came in what vehicles, then you would assume that the 1986 4 Runner in my shop at the moment, looks normal with a V-8. Problem is its 1994 LT1 Corvette enegine..... What does this have to do with the train car???

Well, one thing to consider, which could make this eve harder to figure out, but allow room for the theroies. But you mention it came with a Box car shell? There is a very good chamce that someone might have retrofitted the frame/chassis with the box car. Maybe there was some other shell on it before that had the animation, such as a animals in there, or crewman running around... In whcih case, the original shell would help explain things. If it is old, thern who knows its history. Maybe be someday long ago, I guy got tired of watchign the crewman run around in circles and put on a more realsitc box car shell.

Just a thought to try and look at the history. I am thinking some of the guys are on the right track with the animation theroy.

Best Regards
Johnk

[Anonymous]

Ok, I'll answer you if you don't shoot me.

It's either an adaptation or a kitbash or parts salvaged from a TYCO M&STL boxcar that had the "walking" brakeman atop it and put in/on the varney frame.

I had one nearly exactly the same by Tyco.

The cutouts over the wheel sets provided motion via a rubber band to the pully set that has the rubber band on it.

The vertical "set" had a longer rubber band stretched between the tow nylon pullys with a brakeman (with base) attached to the longer rubber band by what resembled a common staple embedded in the base and squeezed over the longer rubber band.

Cordially,
Gerry D