Model Railroader books: duplication and deception

[MRTerry]

Bob,
Andy's freight yard book is all new. His MR article is based on what he learned as he wrote the book, but it was written separately.
Thanks,
Terry

[lyctus]

Wow, Michel has taken a bit of a whipping on this thread! I can understand his disapointment, maybe, and as a store proprietor.selling among other stock, specialist books, I can appreciate why a store manager might wrap expensive books....we do wrap $70+ books,and some cheaper books do come wrapped from the publisher, but we are always willing to un-wrap a book for an interested customer. You would be surprised at how a book can be grubbied up by handling and rendered almost past selling ! Some folk seem to think it's OK to treat your book stock as library stock as well....
As I said on an earlier post, and others have backed this up, the collection of a bunch of themed information in one volume is extremely valuable, and Michel, keep the book ! You will appreciate it as you refer to it and maybe more as time goes by.

[davekelly]

Excellent points being discussed here. Perhaps Kalmbach should divy up their books into different series. "Best of Model Railroader - Scenery" or "Model Railroader Compilation - Scenery (or Kitbashing or whatever) would be made up of between 75-100 percent reprinted articles. Some other titles could be used to lump books that are totally new and those books that have maybe 10 percent reprints (I'm thinking of the City Scenery Book here). Perhaps the back cover could have a chapter index? If a chapter is an article reprint the listing could say "Kitbashing DaveKelly's House - Reprint from Aug 2005 . . . page 13." That would make it very clear what all was being reprinted and could be read whether the book was sealed or not. Would any of this work? (Kalmbach - if you think it is a good idea - I'm looking for a job!).

I don't think either SD or Kalmbach is wrong here. There just needs to be a little clearer communicating of what exactly is inside each book.

[Bob Hayes]

Don,
I guess you don't get out too often. Every train store I can remember being in, in California, shink wraps ALL their books. They do this mostly to keep dirty fingerprints off them. Most will remove the wrapping if a customer asks. How many times have you bought a new book that had dog eared pages and dirty smudges on the pages? And I agree with SD. The book should have said something to the effect that it is a compilation of articles already published. I recently purchased "Freight Yards" based on the article in MR a few months earlier. Good article, losy book. Nowhere, on the outside covers, does it say anything about being a compilation of published articles. Now I agree that having all the articles in one place is nice, but publishing a book that appears to contain new material, but doesn't(some of which dates from the 1950's) is not what I want to pay $18.95 + tax for. And sitting in the LHS reading a book from cover to cover to find out if there is anything new in it, isn't going to make the LHS owner very happy either. And if your LHS is 90 miles away, running home to jump on this forum to find out if the book in question is any good, and then driving 180 miles back to buy it if it is, doesn't make sense either.
Bob Hayes

[davekelly]

Mark,

Philadelphia? I went to college in Philadelphia, but that was long long ago. Was in Amarillo just this past weekend as that's where my reserve unit drills. Bummer I missed ya!

Things in Lubbock are going ok. Still looking for a job, but the weather is good and I'm gettin' lots of stuff down around the house that I've been ignoring for quite some time!

Dave

[Pruitt]

Dave -

Yes, but just for a few weeks. Every now and then I come down from Philadelphia to provide engineering support in the Bell V-22 factory here.

What goes on in Lubbock?

[davekelly]

Brunton,

You in Amarillo? I'm in Lubbock!

[Pruitt]

QUOTE: Originally posted by Don Gibson

I have never seen a Kalmback book shrink-wrapped...

I have. The hobby shop in Amarillo, TX does just that on some of the books they sell. Or maybe I'm hallucinating?

Some members of this forum are pretty crusty, myself included at times, I'm sure. Sometimes some of them cross the line (again, myself included, perhaps) from crusty to intolerant boor. I guess when that happens we should all just have a laugh at the person's churlishness and move on.

[Don Gibson]

QUOTE: " ... SD40-2W was not insulting to Kalmbach. He did not go off on a rant here like many people do when they buy something and find out it is not what they expected. He merely said he thought ... " - roadtrp

... and I guess he didn't use the word "Deception".

[Roadtrp]

<<I agree with D. Gibson, crying after the fact for one's lack of planning and foresight is a waste of energy. >>

If everyone on these forums stopped complaining about something that went wrong that they probably could have prevented there would be hardly any forum at all. SD40-2W was not insulting to Kalmbach. He did not go off on a rant here like many people do when they buy something and find out it is not what they expected. He merely said he thought that Kalmbach should indicate that it is reprinted material on the front or back cover. Kalmbach apparently agrees, because Terry said in his post that they do just that.

So SD40-2W apparently missed the notice. Big deal. Is he the first guy on earth not to notice the fine print on a product? When Terry responded SD graciously thanked him for his response. He certainly did not exhibit "gross immaturity". Don claiming that SD had to be lying about shrink wrap because he had never seen it himself was really a cheap shot. There are a lot of things that Don has never seen and I have never seen. Does that mean they don't exist and that it is justified to call someone a liar? I think not.

I know that Don is a long time member here, and I know that he has more modeling skill in his little finger than I have in my entire body. But that still doesn't give him the right to treat someone like he treated SD40-2W.

[sigh] [sigh]

[dwRavenstar]

Sounds like someone made a decision and is less than satisfied with the end result.
No, the decision wasn't the purchase of the book; it was that of making an impulse purchase instead of coming home, getting in the forum and asking if anyone were familiar with the publication and what true value was inside the covers. Once that decision had been made, especially when faced with the reported shrink wrapping, the cost of the upcoming education was black and white. If even one reprinted article was new to the purchaser then the cost of the book was the cost of that one article.

I agree with D. Gibson, crying after the fact for one's lack of planning and foresight is a waste of energy.

Looking at the bigger picture it's refreshing to see that Kalmbach is making past information available to newcomers who don't have past issues to look through as a source for reference material. The response from and comments re MR's editorial staff reinforces my belief that they are hobby-ists (sp?) at heart and not just businessmen looking to hawk their wares.

'nuff said

Dave (dwRavenstar)

[Roadtrp]

Never mind Don. I think he forgot his Ex-Lax last night and is a little cranky today.

[:P]

[mcouvillion]

Michael,

The compilation of related articles into a single book saves YOU the time and effort, if you are willing to expend it, of pouring over several years of back issues to find an article that might help you. Personally, I don't look forward to an evening running through several years of back issues to find an article that I remember seeing (usually a couple of years earlier than I had remembered). But the books need to plainly state that they are reprints of similar articles, not new issues.

This topic reminds me of the MAD Magazines I used to read as a kid. My neighbor always bought every issue. I had figured out that most of the stuff was taken from earlier issues and there might be one new piece (article?) per issue. So I would read his copies and rarely bought my own. When there was enough new stuff to justify a purchase, I would get it. I still can't believe more folks didn't catch on to what was going on.

Mark C.

[Don Gibson]

SD-40-2W

Get off of it.

Kalmback's books are a collection of article's regarding a similar subject. They bring 'newbie's up to date on ariticles they may have missed, not being subcribers, and save other's the neccesity of saving back issues - forever - and looking at old prices.

I have never seen a Kalmback book shrink-wrapped therfor I think your excuse self-serving. Why didn't you just return it or exchanged it at the place you bought it?, instead of exhibiting such a fine example of gross immaturity here, for all to see.

Too simple?

[Anonymous]

Great points brought up in this thread. I have several older books / booklets (both editions of Thorne's electronics book, the museum guide, the historical guide, Armstrong, Dave Frary) and only the Frary one duplicated photos and materials from MR articles, but even that contained mostly fresh material. I fully understand the business decision to re-purpose materials from the magazine, and as others have noted, its even quite useful to many purchasers. However, I'd like to see (and likely purchase) more publications that provide mostly fresh information. The booklet being advertised about the Golden Era seems interesting but I've been skeptical that it has fresh information; I look forward to having a look at it at my LHS and making my purchase decision.

Michel, your LHS is going to the trouble and expense of shrink-wrapping these titles presumably because they are paranoid about alleged freeloaders. This is a very negative perception of their customers and they, not MR, are the reason why you were not able to inspect the contents prior to purchase. I for one would not purchase such booklets sight unseen.

Terry's response is admirable and causes me to comment that since the early 60s I have repeatedly observed that MR and its parent company have always been very ethical. However, since Russ Larson was promoted from the editorship, MR's communication with, and responsiveness to its audience has in my opinion improved very noticeably (not to say that it was some big problem to start with).

[SD40-2W]

QUOTE: Originally posted by MReditor

Michel,
Thanks for the excellent question. After reading it, I took a look at the books on my shelf, and all of them which are reprinted MR articles say so on the cover or on the back. I think that's a good idea. I don't have all of the books, though, so it's possible that a few of them don't. I'll make sure the staff of our books department, which compiles those books, sees your post.
It's also unusual for a shop to wrap the books in plastic. We don't plan on (or recommend) that. (After all, as the saying goes, you can't judge a book by its cover.)
If you've already taken your book back for a refund, that's fine. If you haven't, e-mail or call me and we'll sort this out.
Best wishes, and sorry we disappointed you.
Thanks for reading MR,
Terry

Thanks Terry for your input,

I would like to add that all the Kalmback books I bought over the years seemed to have been writen as original editions to be published as such.

Books by Andy Sperandeo (Wiring), P. J. Thorne (Electronic), John Armstong (planning), Linn Wescott (Benchwork , Track planning), Jeff Wilson (Painting), Don Mitchell (Track plans) were not to my knowledge reprints of MRR Magazine articles and are not identified as such. In the case of Scenery Tips and Techniques (Handbook # 26) that might be different.

With this in mind, I bought Realistic Animation... in total confidence not even thinking that reprints even existed. END OF FILE

Now friends, I am on my way to Radio Shack to buy some 276-1152 as suggested page 50 of my new book.

Michel in the wonderfull north

[cwclark]

I have problems with the books that don't really explain things...i've purchased a couple of publications that just show pictures and not How it was done...guess they think i'm physic or something...chuck

[MidlandPacific]

QUOTE: Wow. Way cool that Terry's gonna check this out! All of you know there are some out there that would delete a thread that was critical of the host.

I have to agree: my lifetime experience with MR/Kalmbach customer service has been overwhelmingly positive. I don't think I've ever complained about anything, but I have written inquiring emails, and I've always received a friendly, same-day response that answered the question, and when I asked a modeling-related question, I usually got a lengthy reply that had obviously been written by someone who had not only researched the response, but had an evident interest in the subject. And a lot of them have come (even when I directed the question to one of the anonymous "[e-mail]" addresses) from Andy Sperandeo.

[davekelly]

Wow. Way cool that Terry's gonna check this out! All of you know there are some out there that would delete a thread that was critical of the host.

While I don't have my books handy, I"m pretty sure at least one of them states that they are a reprint of past articles. I like 'em all anyways.

[MRTerry]

Michel,
Thanks for the excellent question. After reading it, I took a look at the books on my shelf, and all of them which are reprinted MR articles say so on the cover or on the back. I think that's a good idea. I don't have all of the books, though, so it's possible that a few of them don't. I'll make sure the staff of our books department, which compiles those books, sees your post.
It's also unusual for a shop to wrap the books in plastic. We don't plan on (or recommend) that. (After all, as the saying goes, you can't judge a book by its cover.)
If you've already taken your book back for a refund, that's fine. If you haven't, e-mail or call me and we'll sort this out.
Best wishes, and sorry we disappointed you.
Thanks for reading MR,
Terry

[siberianmo]

I could write a book about the MRR books I've purchased that contain so much in terms of reprints from other sources. BUT - having all of this info in one place and in most instances, updated, does have some advantages.

You have a great point about disclosure. Great idea and one can only wonder whether the folks at Kalmbach would respond favorably to this idea.

See ya![tup]

[jsoderq]

Once again do your homework! A quick qurestion here would have told you all you wanted to know about the book. Don't blame the publisher for your mistake.

[lyctus]

I like the format of Kalmbach's books and the compilations from previous magazines bring all the articles on one subject together in a single reference. Many magazine publishers do this and I think it is legitimate. Sure, they cost, but at least you guys buy them at a reasonable cost! Try picking them up at my LHS where they have been sent to distributors in Australia who pay freight, take a margin,send 'em to the LHS who reasonably as well take a margin and pay more freight ! When you buy them, you really want them, and you value them. I've got Track Planning, Scenery,How To Wire,etc.etc. which are over twenty years old, and I still refer to them. A good investment I think.

[randybc2003]

I agree that the statement should be on the front cover. I have known that their books are a compilation of articles from their magazine. This goes all the way back to "101 Track Plans", "Railroad that Grows", and "Primer" and Structure books. This presents a large collection of information, etc to the newcomer who doesn't have a collection of mags to draw on.
My real complaint is they seem to be "simplifying" their articles. T. Koster's book on operation and design doesnt hold a candle to B. Chubs. Likewise I miss the scrachbuilding articles as found in "Bridges & Buildings", and "Planning from reality" is a weak shadow of J. Armstrongs "Track Planning for Realistic Operation".
It is a magazine, and suupposed to address the newcommer as well as the veteran. What I wonder is how long a subject has to be dormant before they "recycle" it. Sometimes the new materials add real interest, other times the article seems like comparing water (new) to cream (old). Their articles on "Western" scenery reflect this in particular.
Still, we don'[t want to frighten away the newcommer with too much detail.
But I reserve the right to gripe.!!! [(-D]

[ereimer]

my LHS doesn't have the books in plastic wrap , so you can see what you're buying . i think it's a bit much for a store to be asking you to pay $20+ for something you can't even look at first .

sorry you wasted your money

[IRONROOSTER]

I agree that you should know up front. MR has been doing this for years. I don't object, some I have bought just to have all the like articles together, most I pass on because I have all the issues. (My collection is solid back to 1960 and I'm only missing six back thru 1950.)
I always check their books out before I buy just to see if that's the case.

Enjoy
Paul

[Anonymous]

Two things:

1) I like that they create books from the material in MR - it's a much handier form to have it in, especially if you don't have the MR articles.

2) They should plaster "From the pages of Model Railroader Magazine" on the front cover thanks to people buying on the internet, etc. these days. It's not like 15 years ago when you'd only buy a book like this in the hobby shop.

I'm a Model Railroader book recovering addict. I love their books, and have to resist buying them!

[jrbernier]

Michel,

Most all of the Kalmbach soft cover books contain material from the past issues of MR. IIRC, the original scenery and wiring books may have been 'new' information. At least Kalmbach has updated many of the soft cover books through the years or replaced them with new ones.

Jim

[SD40-2W]

Hi all.

I wanted to know more about electronics applications to our hobby so the last time I went to my favorite LHS I bought Kalmbach's Realistic Animation, Lighting & Sound.

When I returned home, I realized that the content of the book seemed very familiar. After a while I understood why.

In the inside front cover, you can read the following notice: "the material in this book has previously appeared as articles in Model Railroad Magazine".

Since I have been a long time Model Railroader Magazine reader, useless to say that I was deceived. I sure did not need to pay for this duplication of information .

Not being the type of person who will destroy the plastic wrapping to read a book before buying, I think the notice should have been printed in evidence whether on the front or the rear cover of the book.

But maybe I am missing someting here.

Michel in the wonderfull north.