So ...... What About Those BLI SD-40-2's?

[AntonioFP45]

Robert,

I recently heard a sound equipped BLI diesel on a club layout. I could hear the growling, though I stayed quiet and enjoyed the "overall sound".

I guess with me, my ear is tuned in to prototype and model railroad sounds, especially since I've owned Athearn BBs since the 70s.

If the growling on a BLI is from the motor than dropping in a Mashima should nullify that! If it's the trucks, then it gets more involved.

10-4!

[bogp40]

Turn the sound off and listen to the drive, Half of the SD40s I know make more noise than and old BB. Why refine the drive when the average person running with sound will not hear the growl. Maybe after break-in they may smooth out. No comparison to my Stewarts, Katos, Atlas or P2Ks.
Bob K.

[trainfan1221]

I have yet to see one in person, so I can't judge. I do agree that MR rarely gives negative reviews, and this one was somewhat negative. I do remember the MRC F7 being ripped apart, now that was a bad review! As for the new model, my take on it is this-we all pay a lot more for model locos in all scales, and therefore expect better quality. New standards have been long since established in the appearance and detail of engines and its not normal for a company to come out with an inferior looking (or running) model anymore. When you consider how highly detailed some N scale models are, then you can certainly expect a lot more in HO. I do not have much use for sound, its kinda neat bit I still feel its more of a gimmick in a model locomotive. It will never come close to capturing anyhting like the real thing. Especieally on a grade where trains really dig in and pull. I have alwats thought models like Athearn blue box locos were fine, at least the SD40-2. When I was in HO, these were far better than anything I owned, and even back then, starting to be really pricey.
Like I said, haven't seen the new one yet, was really impressed with the Kato models and would own them if I were still in HO (have the nscale versions). For the price, they should pay a little attention to detail.

[AntonioFP45]

Rexhea,

Contact Digitrax at: [e-mail]

IMPORTANT info like this is good to share so the company can analyze the product and make needed improvements.

Thanks!

[rexhea]

QUOTE: Originally posted by NZRMac

Rex has a bunch of BLI's too, he's running Digitrax on his layout, I wonder if he has a problem.

Ken.

Hi everyone!
I have the Digitrax 8 amp Chief. The only time I have a reset problem is if I have at least three BLI locos online, been running for a good while, and the Command Unit is hot.

One thing that I have noticed is that if I immediately turn track power off at the time of the short with the trottle control and hold the button down until I hear a Command Station beep, then the reset is almost instantaneous.

The biggest problem I have seen with reset is HEAT! Although Digitrax has installed a large heat sink for the power amplifiers, the case is completely closed off. To remedy this, I have cut off about a 1/2 inch of the case at the back (up to the screw holes) to allow heat to escape from the circuitry and I have installed a computer fan to move the air out. So far, I haven't had any more problems.

[:)] REX [:D]

[jfugate]

In doing some more digging, I found this chart on Tony's Train exchange:

http://www.tonystrains.com/technews/pshield-restart.htm

While the numbers seem high (lower numbers are worse), the basic pattern is there.

Digitrax boosters seem to have the most problem recovering from a short with sound decoders on the track, and it takes fewer sound decoders to "kill" a Digitrax system so it won't recover at all from a short. Lenz and NCE are less sensitive.

Still, there is a limited number of locos you can have on a DCC layout with sound and when you get a short, the booster may not recover if you have too many locos with sound.

Sobering indeed.

[NZRMac]

Rex has a bunch of BLI's too, he's running Digitrax on his layout, I wonder if he has a problem.

Ken.

[jfugate]

QUOTE: Originally posted by NZRMac

I've got three BLI loco's and two soundtraxx equipped loco's if I have a power short somewhere and have to reset it comes on straight away.

I have Lenz set 100 5amp system and some pretty dodgey wiring!!

Ken.

Maybe Digitrax and sound decoders don't play together well? In all the examples I've seen so far (Charlie Comstock and Bill Darnaby both use Digitrax, and they were the ones who've pointed out this problem), it's been trying to power on a Digitrax DCC system when the layout's got 2+ QSI equipped locos on it.

Maybe Charlie needs to bring his QSI locos over to my place ... I use Lenz power boosters too. Perhaps they are more forgiving.

This certainly bears more study.

[NZRMac]

I've got three BLI loco's and two soundtraxx equipped loco's if I have a power short somewhere and have to reset it comes on straight away.

I have Lenz set 100 5amp system and some pretty dodgey wiring!!

Ken.

[jfugate]

Speaking of QSI decoders, the larger current draw these decoders take when you power up a layout is turning into a real problem.

My friend Charlie Comstock has two of the BLI cab forwards, and 4 Soundtraxx units on his layout. In a recent op session someone shorted a turnout and his Digitrax power booster went "beep beep beep" like it does when you have a short on the layout.

However, he could not power the layout back up because the booster kept seeing the huge current draw from the sound units and would power back down again because it figured the short still existed. After a lot of hassle to remove all the track power, Charlie was finally able to get the layout to power back up.

Charlie has stated he will buy no more QSI equipped units untul they get this problem resolved. He's not impressed.

Bill Darnaby did an experiment and found 1 QSI loco on his Digitrax system did not generate enough current draw to prevent the booster from recovering when the track was shorted, but TWO QSI decoder equipped locos did prevent the layout from coming back up. Bill also found the same effect from 7 Soundtraxx decoders on the layout.

So 7 Soundtraxx decoders seems to equal 2 QSI decoders ... and they're DCC layout killers if your DCC layout goes down with a short.

I see this as a serious problem and what amounts to a DCC design flaw in these sound decoders. It looks like you won't be able to run many of them at a time on a larger layout ... or you just pray nobody shorts anything. Bad, BAD, BAD !

[csxns]

Yes back in the 70s,SCL and the Clinchfield did welcome respectful fans had lots of fun in Bostic yard.

[AntonioFP45]

4884Bigboy

Go to the BLI website, click on the BLI sound sample of the SD40-2.. Listen carefully to the diesel.

Then go to the Soundtraxx link I posted above, and listen closely to the sound of that diesel. (Try to ignore the horn and bell). You should notice the difference right away. [;)]

If indeed the BLI/QSI recording is the sound of an EMD 645, then either it was a non-turbo unit like a GP38 or SD38, or the microphone used didn't do a good job of picking up the turbocharger's sound.

Oh, as for the reference in my teen years, I also spent oodles of time around and on locomotives in my young adult years as well, which included cab rides.......That was so cool! I was able to take loads of photos and make tape recordings.

( Back in the 70s, SCL railroaders often welcomed respectful railfans. Too bad that in this era of lawsuits and terrorism, that's gone forever. )

[Anonymous]

QUOTE: Originally posted by AntonioFP45

QUOTE: Originally posted by 4884bigboy

I agree, TrainBoy. I honestly don't think they look that bad. And, from what I've heard, it's the GP9 that has the incorrect sound. The BLI SD40-2 does have the correct decoder.

Hello 4884BigBoy,

No disrespect intended but I have to disagree with you. As a teen I spent many hours around prototype EMD Geeps and Switchers. I took photos and made tape recordings back in the late 70s-early 80s.

The HO GP9's sound is very close to the prototype. The BLI SD40-2, while it sounds "dynamic" and clear, lacks the distinctive Turbo Charger sound that's the trademark signature of most 645 diesel equipped EMDs.

Antonio,

No disrespect to you either, but me being a teen, I've also spent a fair share of time around SD40-2s and GP9s (the local shortline has a few). The SD40-2s have the turbo charged whine, while the GP9s have more of the classic "567 Chant". I don't know about you, but I think the QSI decoder whines more than it chants.

[AntonioFP45]

Hey guys

Regarding the turbo whine of the EMD 645 diesel.

Try this link: http://www.soundtraxx.com/dcc/sound.html

This is the sound samples page from Soundtraxx. When you get to the page, on the diesel sound samples click on sound sample #825227, the one with the M3 horn. Try not to listen to the bell or horn, concentrate on the sound of the diesel itself. You will hear that distinctive turbocharger whine that's being referred to .

That's the same whine I used to hear from those hulking Amtrak SDP40fs back in the 70s when I used to hang around Tampa Union Station. Though, the horns the SDPs used were the SL4T (later K5LA). Wonderful memories for me!

Hope this helps!

[CPPedler]

I thought I would wait awhile before I answered this subject , I bought the HELM version at the Springfield Show back in January. I have run it on my DCC layout on its own and not in a consist. It seems to perform well both on the main line with plenty of muscle and switching with good fine control and slow running . It does need very clean track though. As for the sound , I was quite surprised at the level of the output at the factory setting, so much that I had to turn it down considerably . It sounds to me like what it should sound like, as I don't live in the States I have nothing to compare it with , I think there is some turbo whine but not quite enough. Turning to the visual side of it , I think the hand rails are a bit on the heavy side as are the hinges on the battery boxes and the hood doors, the grills could be finer. The trucks look O.K. but not as detailed as I would have expected.
Overall its not a bad model and as someone else has remarked you are really paying for the sound system but Broadway should be looking for finer detail .
Today I ran it on a friends DC layout and once we had figured out how to work the horn and bell it ran well and hauled forty boxcars quite easily.
Would I by another Broadway diesel ?? I await the AC6000 with anticipation, I only hope that the detail is finer and that the ditch lights can be made operate correctly , also the correct sound of the big G.E. loco's,we shall have to wait and see!!!! CPPedler

[mustanggt]

I got the issue last week and read the review... I thought It was fair. They noted several flaws, but the soft (chunky) detailing was the only one that I thought stood out. In my opinion, the shell is equal to Athearns.

[Anonymous]

How do the Atlas 8-40CW's QSI perform on DC powered track ?

[NZRMac]

I thought I was in for one of those "I wish I hadn't bought this" feelings when I saw MR were doing a review on the BLI SD40-2's. But it wasn't that bad.

Mayby things could be better but I really don't care if the grab irons look to big, these loco's pull my coal hoppers (12 each) around my layout (which I have to keep super clean or they will stall/jerk) and they look fantastic.

I love my SD's wouldn't go back now.

Just my thoughts!!!

Ken.

[jacon12]

I don't know much about the prototype so maybe someone can tell me that does. Are the grabirons and siderails this big on the real engine..

The sound reminds me of my P2k GP-9i..
http://www.broadway-limited.com/ho_102.mp3
except the Gp's bell is much slower.
Jacon

[AntonioFP45]

QUOTE: Originally posted by gbailey

Actually, as MR reviews go, it was fairly negative ... and should have been MORE negative, IMHO. You have to read between the lines with MR reviews. MR should take some lessons from CU to do a better job of making fair but honest reports.

I have quit "listening" to the MR report verbage and concentrate on the stats/graphs.
I know many folk who have given up on MR's reports altogether. If they don't improve them, they are going to lose more subscriptions. They have lost mine.

GBailey,

Wow! More negative? What about the unit was more negative? Sorry to read that you no longer subscribe to MR. I've switched to RMC, but I find myself missing MR.

But your point should be well taken.

Regardless whether positive or negative, straightforward and honest feedback is always good to read. Persons thinking about purchasing the product in question would likely appreciate reading the "Pros and Con" of it.

I've always thought that MR roduct reviews were rather impartial. I'll pay more close attention.

[;)]

[Anonymous]

Actually, as MR reviews go, it was fairly negative ... and should have been MORE negative, IMHO. You have to read between the lines with MR reviews. MR should take some lessons from CU to do a better job of making fair but honest reports.

I have quit "listening" to the MR report verbage and concentrate on the stats/graphs.
I know many folk who have given up on MR's reports altogether. If they don't improve them, they are going to lose more subscriptions. They have lost mine.

[AntonioFP45]

QUOTE: Originally posted by 4884bigboy

I agree, TrainBoy. I honestly don't think they look that bad. And, from what I've heard, it's the GP9 that has the incorrect sound. The BLI SD40-2 does have the correct decoder.

Hello 4884BigBoy,

No disrespect intended but I have to disagree with you. As a teen I spent many hours around prototype EMD Geeps and Switchers. I took photos and made tape recordings back in the late 70s-early 80s.

The HO GP9's sound is very close to the prototype. The BLI SD40-2, while it sounds "dynamic" and clear, lacks the distinctive Turbo Charger sound that's the trademark signature of most 645 diesel equipped EMDs.

LGBF7,

Actually, Soundtraxx did get the 645 EMD sound correct. Just go to their website and listen to the sound samples of the EMD Dash 2s. The Turbo's whine is quite noticeable. [8D][;)]

Now, if they would just hurry up and bring out the Tsunami!.........................[:p]

[Anonymous]

I agree, TrainBoy. I honestly don't think they look that bad. And, from what I've heard, it's the GP9 that has the incorrect sound. The BLI SD40-2 does have the correct decoder.

[trainboyH16-44]

What is with people bashing them? The MR review says they're good, and I saw one in person, and I say that they look almost as good as a Kato. The MR review says that they can pull sixtysomething cars on straight and level track, about the same as Katos SD90, but people say they're weak. WHAT IS WITH ALL YOU PEOPLE?
Trainboy

[Anonymous]

In a nutshell, They SUCK!!!!
Way over priced, poor detailing, and all the sounds of a GP-9!!!!!!!!!!!!!!1
Like someone else said, they look like the old AHM SD-40's of 20 years ago.
They should have a price of no more than $39.95. Even at that, I still wouldn't buy one!
gtirr

[Anonymous]

Prototype diesels dont hunt up and down do to govenors, but due to the engineer changing thottle notches, from idle thru run 8. Railroads are very strict about speeding and even 1mph over can be grounds for termination. The only time a govenor holds back a diesel's rpm is in run 8 and it will just stay right at the high rpm, it wont flucituate. I agree EMD's thru the sd-40 series have a pronounced turbo wine, once the sd50/60 series came out the turbo wine, while pronounced is different from the older units, espicaly at idle. I hope somebody gets the turbo wine correct, nothing like a quartet of sd40-2's cresting boseman pass on the MRL in full roar!! Cheers Mike

[trainboyH16-44]

Yeah, the 38s weren't turbocharged.
Trainboy

[AntonioFP45]

Forgot to mention,

regarding BLI's "Diesel" engine or sounds on their EMD locomotives.

Prototype EMD:

Switchers: SW-1 through 9, NW-2, TR-2,
Carbody Units: FT, F3 thru F9, BL2, E3 thru E9.
Hood Units: GP7 thru GP35, SD7 thru SD35,

These all use the famous 567 series diesel. Basically they sound the same with minor variations due to governors, generators, etc. E units came with two 567 diesels under the carbody.

EMD SW1500, GP and SD 38, 39, 40, 40X, 45, and Dash 2s use the 645 series diesel. Again, minor variations due to some mechanical components, especially the Tunnel Motors, but the BASIC EMD turbo charged whine is the same! Oh BTW, the 38 series was non-turbo.

So in a nutshell BLI just has to be consistent with the prime mover sounds. I listened to the sound sample of the new switcher. Defintely a 567, hands down! The E7 by far, sounds the best as you can hear the dual 567s.

I must admit that on the BLI SD40-2, the turbo whine is not well pronounced. The engine almost sounds like a 567 rather than a 645. Unless, the recording came from a GP or SD38. I doubt it though, as the air aspirated 567 has a louder and slightly lower toned exhaust sound than a non-turbo 645 diesel engine.

As for the horns, we can't nit pick too much as they will vary according to the railroad.
Check out the thread above I posted on horns and click on the link.

Peace!

[selector]

I just contacted BLI about my Hudson that suddenly stopped running. I cleaned the wheels and contacts (broke a tine), attempted a reset, and checked the power source to make sure I had power to the track. Loco would not move or squeek. Then I realized that I had neglected to send in the warranty card due "30 days after purchase." Gulp.

I contacted them by e-mail this afternoon, and two hours later had a reply. Send it in, they said, with $7.00 return postage, and send in the warranty. It's not too late.

I guess every manufacturer has their warranty issues, but I am pleased to say that BLI stands by their product, were quick to get back, and were flexible about my non-conformance with their registration policy of 30 days. And, I really like that Hudson. Now, if I could just afford a K-4....