OKay, so what do I have to do to remotor this thing? (Tested at 1.2 A)

[SpaceMouse]

I just got my 0-6-0 switcher and it has an open motor. I want to change it to a can so I can stick a decoder in it. But I don't even know the basic stuff like where do I find a can motor and what does it take to attatch a motor that isn't made for a specific frame.

Where do I start?

[TurboOne]

In a can of course. [8D][8D]

couldn't resist chip, being up this early I am way too silly.

Walthers catalog has some listed. Also on their website. Lastly my LHS has them in stock, can't remember if you had one close by.

As far as putting them in, I defer to smarter minds.

Tim

[SpaceMouse]

QUOTE: Originally posted by TurboOne


Walthers catalog has some listed. Also on their website. Lastly my LHS has them in stock, can't remember if you had one close by.

As far as putting them in, I defer to smarter minds.

Tim

The only ones I saw in Walthers were $50. There has to be a better alternative.

My LHS has doodley. I could get a stick or two fo flex track if I wanted Atlas 100 but that is about it.

[TurboOne]

Chip, found a motor for 31, swear I saw one at LHS for $20 something. If I get chance to stop today, I will and let you know.

http://walthers.com/exec/search?quick=motors

Top item is motor.

Take care,

Tim (did you at least laugh at pun?)

[SpaceMouse]

QUOTE: Originally posted by TurboOne

Tim (did you at least laugh at pun?)

OF course.

[ndbprr]

You don't need to change the motor if it is a high quality one. The only restricton would be the amperage it draws under stall. If it is a five pole motor or skew wound it should be fine.

[SpaceMouse]

QUOTE: Originally posted by ndbprr

You don't need to change the motor if it is a high quality one. The only restricton would be the amperage it draws under stall. If it is a five pole motor or skew wound it should be fine.

OKay, this went right over my head. I don't know what you are talking about with 5 pole and skew wound. The motor I have has a metal frame that bolts with a metal screw that mounts to the metal chassis.

The motor consists of a wound armature (I need spell check) on a shaft. Aslo on this shaft are a worm gear and the pick-ups. There are two electrical leads a blue one that runs from a bru***o the frame of the motor and a second that runs from the other brush and is unnattatched. I don't fully understand the DCC circuit, but I'm gueesing I can't use this as is.

[rrinker]

Look at the armature, where allt he coils of fine wire are. If they go parallel to the frame of the motor, it's not skew-wound. Also, count how many sections there are. It will be an odd number, either 3, 5, or 7, most likely 3 or 5. The more poles, the smoother it will run. Skew winding also makes it smoother. A 5 pole skew wound open-frame motor is as good as anything.

What you really need to do is check the current draw. If it's 1.5 amps or less, you probaby don't have to remotor it. My father in law has a bunch of Athearn blue-box types that for now, he is not going to remotor. Quality remotor kits are NOT cheap - often more than the original price of the Blue Box loco itself. The TCS decoders seem to drive the stock motors very nicely with their 'dither' drive.

--Randy

[SpaceMouse]

Okay, it has 5 poles. It runs parallel so it is not skew wound.

I have a multi-meter, how can I check the draw before I mess with the instalations?

[rrinker]

Does it have a range that's in DC amps, not milliamps (ma)? Because the mA range is generally not sufficient for most HO motors. My meter has a 10 amp range - usually involves plugging the one lead into a different pin on the meter as well.

I forget what you said you have for a DC power pack - you do have something better than the one that came with the Hogwart's set, right? The key is is had to be able to supply enough power to remain at 12v output while heavily loaded down (such as when the motor stalls, which is what we are going to do here). Or just crank it wide open. It's only really a problem if the voltage sags under load to a very low level.

Put the meter (set to amps) in series with one of the track power leads:

PP------Meter------track------PP

Run the loco - read current - this is the operating current. Now with the throttle wide open grab the loco and stop the wheels if you can - or if you can run it with the boiler shell off, grab the sides of the motor to stop it from turning. Read the meter - don't hold it stalled for a long time. That's your stall current. If it's 1.5-2.0 amps or less, there are tons of decoders that can handle it. Also per some anecdotal evidence from the Digitrax group, even those locos that stall above 2.0 amps can generally be used, provided you don't allow it to stall (unless it has traction tires, very few locos will actually stall, they usually slip).

--Randy

[SpaceMouse]

The motor is not installed so how about this

PP--meter--redlead

blue lead --PP

By the way, Tech II 1400

To hold it I'm thinking just snug wiht vice-grips.

[Anonymous]

That'll work fine Chip. Anything under 1.5A or so should be safe with modern decoders. Make sure you also check the no load current at WOT (wide open throttle). If your stall is under 1.5A, it will likely be under 1A.

As for the DCC wiring, you'll need to unsolder the blue jumper from the frame so that the brushes are only connected to the decoder wires and nowhere else. Once you can verify that the brushes are isolated (use that handy meter to check the resistance to the frame, motor frame, etc. when it's in the engine. Anything other than inifnite ohms and you need to keep working), wire up the decoder and you should be good to go. If yo urun into any problems, just post a pic and we'll all be happy to help :-)

-dave

[Don Gibson]

MOUSE:
Before you end up with motor's that don't fit ,ie: waste money, why don' t you contact some of the people that DO this sort of thing? Some are listed in the back paged of MR.. Let your fingers do the walking - so to speak.

If you are thinking of remotoring / regearing the Hogwarts (!) I'm going to estimate $150.- $200 - more than a NEW one - (2) assuming it can even be done.

Better to buy a new BLI 4-6-2 and paint it red. At least you wont have to buy a decoder.

[Don Gibson]

QUOTE: Originally posted by SpaceMouse

I just got my 0-6-0 switcher and it has an open motor. I want to change it to a can ... Where do I start?

http://www.nwsl.com/Brochure%20Pages/broch%20160009%20Motor.htm

[rrinker]

I don't think I'd grab the MOVING part with vice-grips to stall it out, if you mean to use the vice-grips on the stationary part to make a handle, sure. You should be able to grab and stall it out by hand, using a metal tool could damage something.
I'm going out on a limb here, but I think you will end up finding the stall current is well within the limits of a typical HO (and some Z) decoders. Heck, those Athearn Tan Can motors are fine...

--Randy

[SpaceMouse]

Okay, I put the meter to it and wounder up. The digital needle peaked at 1.2.

So I take the bkue wire off the motor and connect the decoder to it without letting it touch the frame. IS there anything else I should worry about?












i

[MisterBeasley]

Is stall current the only thing to worry about with these old motors? How about normal running (sustained) current? Looking at DCC systems, the Zephyr (according to other posts) handles 2.5 amps, which I'd assume is the sustained capability. The stall current limit is for the decoders, but if you're running multiple locomotives and consists, what kind of current limits should you expect per engine?

[Anonymous]

You're heading in the right direction Chip. Did you check the no-load-at-12V current? It should be pretty reasonable (<=1A) if my guesses hold true. The next step is adding the decoder.

This may be redundant, but I'd rather err on the side of caution:
The blue wire will end up going away. A gray wire from the decoder (motor -) will go to the "blue" brush contact, and an orange wire will go to the other brush contact (motor +). Don't put extra stuff betwen the decoder and the places it conncts to unless you really need to. It keeps things nice and tidy and reduces the chances for problems later [:)]
The decoder's black wire will go to the contact for the left rail (imagine sitting in the cab driving the train for this part) and the red wire goes to the right rail contact. You'll probably want to put the loco on a piece of track and probe around with your meter to find out for sure which is which, if it's anything like some of the steamers I've worked on.

Other than that, it's a piece of cake, just solder the wires and drop it on the track. [:D]

-dave

[bogp40]

You said that the frame of the motor screws to the chassis/ frame of the engine. You will have to check that the motor is isolated to decoder. The motor frame may already be isolated- and is for mounting purposes. If you are remotoring, is the worm arrangement the same at the gearcase- if not you could bind, strip or run very rough.

[rrinker]

Unles sit runs poorly, I wouldn't bother remotoring it. The current draw is well within limits for regular HO decoders.
As for isolation - you need to make sure that you can touch the lead of your meter (set for continuity, or a resistence setting - if you don;t have one of those nifty 'beep' continuity settings) to the motor terminal, and th eother lead to the chassis, and get no continuity. Repeat for the other motor bru***erminal. Also check for continuity between the pickup wipers on the other set of drivers and each motor brush. If all of these show up as an open circuit (no shorts), you are good to go. A lot of motors like that have a short wire lead soldered from one bru***erminal to the motor frame. That is what needs to be eliminated, if it exists. If it cannot be removed, then you need to put tape between the motor and frame, and use a nylon or plastic screw to mount the motor. And hope the gears are not all metal. Thats where it gets tricky, as the extra thickness of the insulating tape could interfere with proper gear alignment. Hopefully, you won't have to go that far.

--Randy