Solution to poor pulling steam engines.

[Virginian]

I guess I'm with orsonroy. Mine pulls fine, and so do my 2-8-8-2's. Sorry, but I can't imagine a diesel being a cure for anything steam.

[selector]

As an historical and topical aside, my father worked in mines high in the Andes in Peru from'57 - '66. For the first three years, we only saw steamers (2-8-0's and Garratts). The Company finally began purchasing mid-sized diesels in 1960, and the word came that the first-ever diesel would be coming up the Rimac River and on up to 15,000 feet pulling a train of about 10 cars.

When the train finally came around a small mountain and ran through what was the highest golf course in the world at that time, a large group of us wathced the diesel come around the bend first, and it was thrilling. But, it's noise was kind of odd...sounded more like a steamer.

Sure enough, pushing up from the rear was a Consolidation.

Turns out the diesel was 'breathing' at a sea-level setting, and had not been modified for altitude running....at least that's what I recall the explanation was. Sounds like horse pucky to me.

[Anonymous]

I've read that in prototype situations, diesels used as helpers would be placed ahead of or well behind the steam locos to avoid sucking smoke into air intakes.

Wayne

[Leon Silverman]

A "super power" engine is not necessarily a super puller. The "super power" merely indicated that the engine could pull a given size train faster (due to the boliers' higher horsepower capability) than an older design with the same number of driving wheels. The four wheel trailing truck supported a larger firebox which increased the steaming rate of this desing of that of a mountain or mikado type engine.
Be that as it may, upon checking the product reviews associated with this website, you engnie is, indeed, a lightweight puller when compared to other engines of similar configuration and engine weight. The reviewer suggested that the pulling capacity of the engine might improve once the blackening wore off of the driving wheel treads.
I would offer another possible solution, assuming it is impractical to add any weight to the engine: Either entirely remove the pilot and trailing wheel assemblies, or at least remove any springs pressing down on them, and see how the engine pulls. If there is an improvement, it means that there is too much spring pressure on these wheels. This excess spring pressure reduces the weight carried by the driving wheel and thus the traction generated. If you canot weaken the spring pressure and the assemblies will not stay on track under their own weight, try adding some weight directly to these assemblies. They should not need a lot of pressure to stay on the rails.

[rrgrassi]

After reading all this, I noticed one statement on traction tires. How would you add traction tires to a steamer that does not have the notched wheels for traction?

[cacole]

A member of the Cochise & Western Model Railroad Club took the shells off of two Proto 2000 chassis and put boxcars over them to use as inconspicuous booster engines for his Rivarossi 2-6-6-6.

Except for the fuel tanks and trucks, you can't tell that these two box cars are actually locomotives.

[orsonroy]

Funny, my P2K Berks will lug almost 30 cars up a 2.25% grade. That's more than enough for me, since my maximum train length (as dictated by my passing sidings) is only 20 cars!

You have to build your layout to suit the performance curves of your engines. You can't expect mainline length trains on logging road grades. If you want to run long trains behind a single steamer, you'll either have to reduce the grades, add a second steamer to doublehead, or add a diesel mechanism in the tender to give the engine more pulling power.

And 12 cars up a 3% grade sound REALLY close to what a real Berkshire could pull up that sort of grade. Superpower steam was designed to run fast on the flat, not pull drag freights through the mountains.

[Anonymous]

Otherwise, I find traction tires greatly improve pulling, too.

[dehusman]

Get an RSC2 diesel model, take off the hood. Redo the frame to fit inside the tender shell. Put the truck sideframes from the old tender trucks onto the RSC2 trucks.

Tun the engine. You will get all the same pulling power with no unsightly diesel on the train.

Dave H.

[twhite]

When SP was converting from steam to diesel, combinations were pretty common. You could usually see a Cab-forward with an F-series A-B-B-A combination, with either the diesel or the steamer running as helper. A lot of railroads used these combinations during the transition period of the early '50's, it made for great train watching. As to your Berk--I've heard this complaint from several modelers who own them--they're not strong pullers. With poor pulling brass locomotives, it's often a matter of both weight AND balance--sometimes the loco is weighted too much toward the firebox, giving the lead drivers nothing to 'grip'. This might be the case with the Berk--too much weight toward the back of the locomotive. I don't know how difficult they are to dis-assemble, but if you can possibly add a little weight to the front of the boiler, you might increase your pulling power considerably. Steamers have to be able to 'dig in' to the track with their lead drivers, otherwise they'll just spin. LL steamers seem to have a common problem this way--I have a USRA 2-8-8-2, and it's not nearly the puller I thought it was going to be--and there's no place to add more weight in the boiler. I usually have to either double-head with it, or relegate it to pusher service. Too bad, too, like your Berk, it's a really beautifully detailed loco.
Tom

[Anonymous]

The LL Berkshire can manage about 12 cars up a 3% on DCC. But not much better.

Prototype words such as "superpower" does not necessarily translate to steam in HO.

I have a BLI M1a that outperforms that model on a 3%.

I see no problems double heading or triple heading or even doubling the hill by taking half the train up and coming back for the other half.

[Anonymous]

I've seen a photo of an early GP unit running with a steamer - think it was on the Western Pacific. Photo was in "GM's Geeps, The general purpose diesels" (Kalmbach). It did happen, there are also photos of similar events on the ATSF and B&O. Not sure how common it was though - 3 photos in one book, but those could be there specifically because they're unusual. Hope this is of interest!

[turbine682]

I've run a GP7 behind a K4s on occasion

[Anonymous]

I have the new LL Berkshire and it is exquisite EXCEPT that it doesn't pull nearly enough cars, especially for a "superpower" steam engine. I had an idea. I asked if the C&O ever used a deisel along with a steam engine. Frank, our local walking railroad encyclopedia, said that it was not common but yes he had seen pictures of steam engines running with first generation deisels. The railroads frowned on this as it took two train crews instead of one. Still, wouldn't doubling heading two steam engines take two crews? Well I decided to run an RS1 with my new Berkshire (Kanawha) and they worked well together. The look did not bother me so this is for me an acceptable solution. Perhaps, if you have had a similar problem, this will be an acceptable solution for you.