Entry Level Product in Model RR (trainsets?)

[simon1966]

The discussion about the benfit of having entry level trainsets to get people into the hobby is bubbling along in a few threads right now, so I thought I would chime in with a topic rather than put the same opinion in more than one place.

A common theme is that train sets are generally poor quality and not deserving of consideration if you plan to move forward in the hobby. I was rather fortunate in that when I came back in a few years ago, Atlas has a realy good set, with Tru Track, a decent basic controller and full specification loco and rolling stock. Everything from that set is in use still. They don't make it any more, which is unfortunate, but it was quite a bit more expensive than any other set on the market at the time.

I was in Hobby Lobby last night, and I think it is fair to say, that Hobby Lobby is a mass marketer that does cater to the entry level trainset buyer. Not only were there the usual "low end" LifeLike sets, but sets with P1K locos. I also noted that Model Power now sell train sets. They were offering decent looking starter sets in HO and N, with their all metal locomotives. The larger HO set was far more comprehensive than the usual simple set. What intrigued me was that they are packaging it in an unusual way. It is in a large square pillar shaped box with display windows on all sides. Anyway, I felt it was an impressive, modern, attractive looking package that would attract the attention of kids. It certainly seems that it is possible to get a slightly better entry level set without looking too hard.

Bachmann has of course just released the beginner DCC set for a little over $100 with a DCC loco and controller. This has been in very strog evidence at all the train shows I have been to this year in the St. Louis area (3 since Christmas [:D][:D] ) These were flying off the vendors tables, particularly at the "World's Greatest Hobby Show attended by 30k in STL !!!

Anyway, my point is that the "entry level" market looks to me to be reasonably vibrant right now.

[dknelson]

I still see train sets for sale, and often not cheap ones, where even on visual inspection I can see that wheels are missing from freight cars or trucks have come loose. The quality control at some firms, including some with good names in the scale field, is sad.
Years ago Atlas had what I thought was a good idea -- a "train set" type collection of their section HO track. There may have been a power supply included as well, I just can't remember. If you have the basic track and power out of the way, a good hobby dealer can usually suggest better quality cars and locomotives as separate purchases than will be found in a train set. That is more true today than it was 10 years ago since now there is so much good quality ready to run. For a raw beginner even a shake the box Athearn kit might have been a bit daunting.
At least these days the ready to run stuff comes with Kadee or Kadee compatible couplers. I am convinced that horn hook couplers (and poor quality wheel sets) have cost this hobby dearly in terms of people who got their feet wet with a train set and gave it up in disgust.
Dave Nelson

[Anonymous]

so you're saying that a train set isn't necessairly a bad way to go? As long as you get a decent quality set? Any recommendations? :)

[cwclark]

I still believe that starter train sets are not as good as purchasing your first layout in pieces....mainly because the locomotives, rolling stock, and especially the power pack are not as good of quality as individual pieces ...I've never seen an MRC pack as part of any toy train starter set and the detailing of the locomotives and the rolling stock is still not as good as say an athearn genesis or atlas equipment...I guess if you are starting out it's ok, but if you really mean business in the hobby than the toy train sets are not the way to go...Chuck

[Anonymous]

It's hardly a surprise that the Bachmann DCC sets are selling very quickly on both sides of the Pacific! These are great value, and, I think, the first entry level DCC sets at entry level prices. But, there is no rollingstock (not a real loss, as trainset rollingstock is usually poor, and never what you really want), and I think that there is no track - which should mean that there is no brass or steel track to throw away later! Perhaps it is time for Peco to pack a starter track set, to get beginners off on the right track!

Cheers,

Allan Lees (in Oz)

[Anonymous]

cmajor,

Train set have come a long way in quality and bang for the buck. A Proto 1K set is a good idea, as well as some of the Bachman stes for that matter.

When I started out a number of years ago after leaving Acitive Duty and returning home, I was convinced into buying a Blue Box Athearn Engine (SanteFe GP-38-2) a few cars and one Caboose. I bought the entry level track which was really poor and a bad decision on my part. All of the rollin stock was hook horn stuff with marginal wheel sets, but I didn't know the difference.

Due to my childrens lack of desire to work/play with the trains, the layout got shove to the workshop and gathered dust.

Leap forward to 2000 and I buy a MR magazine and see what's going on out there. Oh My! Things have changed! I bought a few Athean F-3's and a couple of Proto 2000 locos, some new Box kits and had some fun building things again.

Skip a track or two and it's late 2004 and my Grand son turns 1 year old, discovers Thomas the Tank Engine, and it's Off we go to the train store! More kits, more locos in the P2K catolog, and our First Digital Sound unit. Because of the enjoyment of the Little Man, Papa is making the JUMP to a full DCC track and new layout.

With the help of forums like this I am doing more for myself then I ever thought I was capable of!

So my suggestion is to buy what you like and can afford and then build from there.

Chris

[IRONROOSTER]

My wife started me on the hobby (although she didn't realize it) when she bought me a Tyco train set. It may not have been the best, but it ran and got me started. I didn't know it wasn't good stuff. I was having fun, bought some Atlas building kits, some MDC old time car kits. Got some Atlas brass track sections and snap switches. Built a layout on a 4x8 sheet of plywood. What can I say, 33 years later I'm still in the hobby still having fun. Still have the Tyco stuff, even though I have switched to S scale.
Enjoy
Paul

[selector]

This is interesting. Good thread, Simon 1966.

As a 52-year old, I came to computers relatively late in life. As everyone eventually does with computers, I began to look for discussion groups (ta-daaaah!) like this one to educate myself. It was at this forum that I learned to avoid so many mistakes...after all, I had to accept much of what I read at face value. If most contributors urged avoiding a particular product, I ignored that advice with a great deal of temerity, let me tell you. And, I was usuually wrong.

With all younger people wired into hand-held communication devices, anyone can get onto the internet with radio laptops while awaiting a bus, and browse groups such as this one. They'll learn what others say is good or bad about a given product that they may be considering. Think of how quickly word will spread that Brand X turnouts are crap, and put it out of business. Has to be good for everyone, and especially the hobby. So, in time, the ability to sell cheap stuff to an uneducated Public will diminish. My youngest is still in university, and she is really dialed-in. Can't get much past her!

As for train sets, my other passion is astronomy. The Magazines all urge the newbie NOT to buy the department store 600 power wonders that sell for only $130 for Christmas. Why do they do it? Well, like many trains sets, they are money traps, wretched performers, and give the hobby a bad name by association.

I don't know why the manufacturers get themselves into this cycle of garbage begetting disgruntled, disappointed, and otherwise driven-off potentially loyal fans.

Maybe they should consider more valuable sets as loss leaders (they can always write off marketing costs against corporate taxes) and sell good ones at margin, if any profit at all. I really think that such far-sighted action would hook and retain many more hobbyists. Or, they should, as a group policy, insist that retailers inform the Public that the manufacturers association's policy is to sell a decent loco first, with some modestly priced track to get the new enthusiast up and ....well,...addicted! Thereafter, they will be able to add a nice set of rolling stock, better track and turnouts, or whatever as their wallets can afford. I wonder how many potential customers would balk if the friendly LHS quietly pointed out the wisdom of the just-described approach, and urged the customer to go slow, but with better quality. I mean, if that LHS had NO garbage sets in the store, how hard would it be?

[3railguy]

I became fascinated by N scale a couple months ago but wasn't sure if my passion was serious enough to spend $300 on a quality engine, rolling stock, track and transformer. So I bought a $50 starter set to see if I really like N scale enough to spend serious money. Well, I fell in love with N scale. The starter set runs OK in circles and allows me to slowly add quality equipment and eventually replace it all with quality equipment and expand. The starter set will eventually become a shelf queen for the office. The Life Like Floor track and transformer will eventually be hung on my wall at work so I can set it on my desk and run a train during lunch hour.

[Anonymous]

QUOTE: Originally posted by allan01

Perhaps it is time for Peco to pack a starter track set, to get beginners off on the right track!

They already do. They offer a pack in both HO and N scale that gets you a loop of settrack, two switches, enough track for a couple of sidings and buffer stops. Can't find the reference numbers for them at the moment though I've seen them in the stores over here. Not sure how many they sell over here as Hornby have a good line in sets - you get a decent loco, stock etc, their standard track (not too shabby, Peco-compatible) and an ok power pack - it's not massively powerful but it'll run pretty much anything and is reasonably precise. Hornby also have add-on packs intended to result in their "Trakmat" (sic) layout - 6x4 board, twin loops, assorted sidings.

Are the Walthers Trainline sets still out there? They looked pretty good, adding Kadees should be easy enough to do and those GP9Ms aren't bad locos considering how cheap they are.

[simon1966]

QUOTE: Originally posted by cmajor

so you're saying that a train set isn't necessairly a bad way to go? As long as you get a decent quality set? Any recommendations? :)

The Atlas set I started with was in retrospect a great buy. The S-2 switcher is one of my favorite loco's and is now converted to DCC with an NCE decoder built specailly for the Atlas S series. The caboose and 2 freight cars are the regular Atlas high quality and they are all 3 still in use on my layout. The powerpack is a jump throttle on my Digitrax Zephyr and the track is part of my test track. So for me this was a great start. But, you can't get this set anymore. Knowing what I know now, if I were starting today, I would give the P1K sets a good look and probably the Model power, but would most likely try and get an MRC powerpack and separate loco's and freight cars. Atlas makes a Tru Track starter pack, which would be a good entry level track system.

[CP5415]

Last I saw, the Athearn sets came with an Athearn labeled MRC power pack in the box.
In my opinion, this would be the best set to start off with.

Gordon