More questions

[Anonymous]

Hm, I have a lot of questions still.

1) What exactly is the function of a coal dealer? Supplying the town population with coal? Or a large factory?
And for a correct setting, how long did they stay in business? After Petroleum was widely used?

2) Oil burning. I dont know whether the locomotives burned, wood, coal or oil.
Since there was a large logging industry that the SP&S served it seems that they would burn wood. But seeing photographs of the locomotives It looks like their tender is fitted for oil burning....

3) Sidings and yards. Ive seen layouts where the sidings and yards have had weeds added to them, the rails are weathered and they generally look ill-maintained. I asked a friend of mine and he said that it made it look realistic. My thought was that sidings serving industrys would be busy and well kept.
Wich is correct?

4) Constructing a train. How many cars could steam switchers pull? Specificlly a
0-6-0. And the frieght trains like a 4-8-2.


Thanks for any answers.
At this point I can only answer basic questions such as wiring, tracklaying, scenery and kit construction. [:I]

[Anonymous]

You got the first question right. My house used to have a coal burning steam boiler. It was converted to natural gas sometime in the late 30s and the house still has a steam boiler. The coal door is still on the side of the house and there used to be a coal bin. A stoker would automatically add coal to the boiler.
I once worked with a old fella that still burned coal in his furnace and the only day he would take off would be coal delivery day. His house was very smokey and dark from the coal.


Most early steam locomotives burned wood because it was readily available. Once coal became widely distributed and the technology to apply it to locomotives, it was the fuel of choice. It burns hotter, evenly and longer than wood.
When oil was discovered and the means to process it into fuel, mostly western railroads converted to oil because there were a lot of oil fields in the southwest and was cheaper than buying coal from the east. Coal hauling railroads in the east like B&O and N&W stayed with coal.

Depending how much traffic a spur or siding sees, weather and surrounding vegetation, there will be weeds more or less. It's takes resources to keep weeds in check. Railroads have a weed spraying program as part of their M.O.W. department. Maybe some industries do not want to spend money on weed killer for such maintenance. Cutting them down with a tractor once in a while is more cost effective.

How many cars can a 0-6-0 pull? Only a few at a time I guess. I don't know for sure. I do know not as many as an 0-8-0. There are variables like the weight of the cars and if the yard was on any kind of grade, how well the engine burned fuel and the grade of fuel.

[Anonymous]

My mother worked for a coal dealer and they were still selling and delivering coal for home use into the late 60's. Most of their coal was the Pochantas Coal from the N&W mines.

Although plentiful, wood had a low BTU rating compared to oil or the Rosebud coal found the the SP&S territory. Even the Rosebud coal was so bad that railroads in that area changed to oil.

Rick

[Anonymous]

Well, our local coal merchant is still going - we get weekly deliveries to feed our one remaining usable coal fire (house has gas-fired central heating, but the fire is more interesting - we just turn the radiator off and use it instead). There must be quite a few people still buying as the coalyard seems to be doing ok as a business. I'd say that you could have a small coal merchant still running today, though they'd probably get their supplies by road now. I suspect they'd be more common in rural areas too, as many people have coal-burning fires as a backup to their modern heating system - we've used ours as such in the rare event of a boiler breakdown, until the repairs could be made. I just wish we got decent coal - ours seems similar to the stuff they ran Polish steam locos on, we get loads of smoke and soot (thankfully not in the house, as there's a good draw on the chimney) and it's very dusty - not proper Welsh coal at all!

[Leon Silverman]

JCtrain,
3. Taking the time to remove weeds is not profitable unless the tracks become so overgrown that they interfere with operations. Industrial tracks are usually overgrown with weeds because the tracks are laid directly on the ground. Mainline tracks are raised up on ballast. This effectly shades the ground under the tracks so no weed can grow due to lack of sunlite.
4. In actuality, the 0-6-0 steamer can probably pull more cars than the 4-8-2 engine.
The switcher is going to have all of its weight supported by the drivers, which are relatively small in diameter in comparison to the 4-8-2 (montain engine). For a given boiler pressure, this generates more tractive effort. The mountain engine has to overcome the added drag from the pilot and trailing wheels which also support part of the engine's weight . The mountain engine also has to drag along a larger tender which also reduces the amount of cars this engine can pull.
When looking at model engines, the pilot and trailing wheels support only a minimal amount of weight (necessary for tracking). Most of the model's weight is supported by the drivers. Consequently, since the mountain engine is longer and usually weighs more than an 0-6-0 switcher, it will outpull the switcher on a model railroad, unless you are comparing a plastic mountain with a solid metal switcher.

[tatans]

I would assume you never got a piece of coal in your Christmas stocking (ask your Grandfather) I lived in a city with large railyards and vast stockpiles of coal on the edge of town, people used to "borrow" it, but only once, this coal burned far too hot and usuallly melted or bent the grates, I still love the smell of coal burning on a 35 below morning.

[Anonymous]

*Brain explodes from wealth of information*

Thank you Gsetter, jesionowski, Railroading_Brit, Leon Silverman and Tatans.

Ok, still a few questions. Was Rosebud Coal a type of coal? Or was it coal in the northwest that a company found?

And since Im aiming for the transition period from steam to diesel my steam enginse should all be modified to oil burning?
(wich wont be too hard, as tenders are easy to change)

As for the 0-6-0 my model is a Bachmann and I dont know what exactly it is....It looks nice so Im guessing the Spectrum series, anyway it cant pull anything! Only five of my SP&S boxcars! So I was wondering what the prototype switcher would pull on average operations.
(Good info though there Leon)

Last thing, how would I transition track from a roadbeded mainline to a ground siding?

Thanks again!

[Anonymous]

Whoa gsetter, upon closer inspection of that picture it shows three tiny men.
Whats up with that?
heheh, it looks funny though.

[howmus]

Actually I see 4 little men in his picture (one is on top of the boiler, 3 at the bottom). I think those are the little men that run around the pipes and hit them in the middle of the night. Hence explaining the "Bang, Bang, Bang, tap, tap, Bang!" that you get with a coal fired steam boiler in buildings.......... [}:)]

[Anonymous]

QUOTE: Originally posted by JCtrain

Whoa gsetter, upon closer inspection of that picture it shows three tiny men.
Whats up with that?
heheh, it looks funny though.

QUOTE: Actually I see 4 little men in his picture (one is on top of the boiler, 3 at the bottom). I think those are the little men that run around the pipes and hit them in the middle of the night. Hence explaining the "Bang, Bang, Bang, tap, tap, Bang!" that you get with a coal fired steam boiler in buildings..........

I see 5 little people! that is a crazy pic!

[howmus]

csxmu, you are indeed right! I missed the guy on the ladder looking at the fire. That should be one noisy boiler system... LOL

[Anonymous]

QUOTE:
I see 5 little people! that is a crazy pic!
--------------------

Well, there are five little people that I saw, too. Don't forget about the one big person holding the shovel, though, for a total of six!

[DSchmitt]

Rosebud coal
Not sure of the answer. There is a Rosebud Coal Company (dating from 1889) that owns a number of mines. One mine is named Rosebud but its not clear whether the name is a type of coal or just a brand name. There are earlier reference to Rosebud coal.

Steam diesel transition era. Coal burning railroads continied to burn coal to the end of steam.

[Anonymous]

Thanks for the answers.

[Anonymous]

(Bump to first page)

While riding the Amtrak line to Seattle every other week to visit my parents.
I noticed the yards along the way are covered in a really fine type of sand looking material, it covers everything and all you can see is the rail tops.
What is this stuff?

[Bikerdad]

QUOTE: 2) Oil burning. I dont know whether the locomotives burned, wood, coal or oil.
Since there was a large logging industry that the SP&S served it seems that they would burn wood. But seeing photographs of the locomotives It looks like their tender is fitted for oil burning....

Oil burning steam locomotives supplanted coal because of the availability of oil vs. the transportation costs of coal for some railroads, the higher maintenance costs of coal burners, and the higher BTU density of oil. Railroads that didn't go to oil generally had readily available coal, enough so to outweigh the oil's advantages.

By the time oil burners became prevalent, most locomotives used in logging were converted to oil. Wood, while readily available, had two disadvantages, one already noted. As stated above, wood has a fairly low BTU density, especially for softwoods. More of a concern though for logging railroads was the spark problem. Lumber companies didn't appreciate watching their inventory go up in flames because of Sparky the Loco. [:o)]

[tpatrick]

I have to repectfully disagree with Leon about the pulling power of an 0-6-0 vs.a 4-8-2. Pennsy had typical examples of each. Their B6sb 0-6-0 weighed 180,300 lbs (all on the drivers, of course) and was rated at 36,140 lbs tractive effort. Their M-1 4-8-2 weighed 383,100 lbs with 273,500 on the drivers. TE was 64,550 lbs. I expect the engine with the greater TE would pull more, even given the added friction of the lead and trailing wheels. My source for the numbers was "Pennsy Steam A to T," by Paul Carleton.

[Virginian]

Rosebud is a type of coal.
We had a house with an automatic stoker and shaker boiler system that worked great well into the '60's. There were no fumes or smoke in the house.
Most railroads that used oil in their locos had converted long before transition, so yes, all of them should be the same.
Model engines often cannot duplicate the pulling force of their prototypes, as noted above. The scale size often does not permit them to weigh enough, and hence some manufacturers provide (d) traction tires.
Transition down with a very gradual slope. I use cut paper for shims myself.

[tpatrick]

I should have read your question more carefully, because I think you were more interested in models than 1 to 1 scale. I don't have an 0-6-0, but my P2K 0-8-0 handles about eight cars up a 2 per cent grade. My P2K 2-8-4 can haul 30 cars, but with a lot of wheel slip. I have a pair of 4-8-2s, one BLI and the other brass, that can run the same 30 cars up the hill with no slip at all. In HO a lot depends on whether the engine is metal or weighted plastic. You lose a lot with plastic.