Am I a Cheapskate?

[htgguy]

Had a rare chance to spend an hour or so in a not so local hobby shop yesterday. The nearest hobby shop for me is 90 miles and this one is farther so it was my first trip to it. They had a good, not great, selection of HO rolling stock and locos. Many of the cars were high end and spendy, for example Genesis. Not much less than $20.

My question is how many of you are comfortable spending $25 and up for a single HO freight car? As someone who has been blessed with the ability to spend a few dollars on this hobby and has space for a mid-sized layout, I wonder if my resistance to spending more than about $16 to $18 (preferably less) for a car is unusual. Of course there are a few "must have" cars for my layout that I will grit my teeth and spend the $25 to $30 on but I am not at all happy doing it.

Along the same line, two more questions. Where can I find a selection of Atheran kits to help me populate my layout in an affordable manner, and what mid priced lines of modern freight cars does everyone like? I have some Atlas, some Athearn RTR (no Genesis), and P1K and am very pleased with them. P2K kits (covered hoppers) I can build but they are not fun for me. I would appreciate any suggestions. I especially love modern boxcars, 50' and 60', midwest prototypes. Thanks in advance for any input.

[Morpar]

Since I am a cheapskate myself, I have no problem saying YES, you are a cheapskate! I personally think the prices for the current R-T-R stuff are WAY TOO HIGH!!! I have a problem spending more than $10 for a freight car myself. Yes, I too have a couple of expensive cars, but most of mine are Athearn blue box, followed by modified Tyco, then MDC. I think for the occasional car, over $10 is fine, but for the majority of my fleet, the cheaper stuff is just fine. I personally prefer to have more cars than better detailed cars for the norm.

The saving grace is that my LHS doesn't raise the prices from what he paid for stuff. I could go in there Monday and pick up an Athearn 86" flatcar for under $5 (and I have too)! He has a decent stock of older Athearn and MDC that is still for sale reasonably. I am not really up to date on the modern stuff, so his selection is fine with me. The new stuff he has is going for the new prices. You might also watch E-bay, I have gotten some good deals by buying groups of cars, then selling or trading what I don't want. Good luck.

[egmurphy]

I'm in N, but I think twice in spending more that $15. $20 is kind of my upper limit. My target range is $10-12.

I'm also happy to buy used cars if I can find them and if they are what I'm looking for. That also helps bring down my average cost/car.


I prefer the term "frugal" to "cheap".


Regards

Ed

[dano99a]

My name is Dano and I am a cheapskate. Call me silly, but I probably waste more time trying to find the best deal. I'm pretty darn good at remembering prices from shop to shop be online or one of the many LHS's here in columbus. But I will say this:

RTR stuff is priced for rich people. Kits are better and cheaper, I like the Athrean blue boxes but they are disappearing. I find a savings in buying used stuff and then go back into them and super detail them (replace grab irons and such). Kit bashing helps with structures and all. So, there is NOTHING wrong with being a cheapo'... if there is a shorter path of less or the least resistance your bound to find me on it somewhere along the line. [:)]

Don't get me wrong, I do put my fair share of $$$ into the hobby but, I am particular about what I put my money into.

Happy modeling

[Anonymous]

Occasionally, i will buy some items for my layout. I saved up money from doing odd jobs around my dad's office to help buy my DCC system. I am very lucky to recieve generous gifts of train-related items from relatives. I am careful with my money, and will think carefully before buying something. The concept of a money-wise 13-year-old may seem strange, but i am not your average teenager.

[bcammack]

Me, too. [:)] All I can say is, "Thank God for Industrial Rail and Captain Blaster at blwnscale.com!"

[tatans]

Cheapskate? skinflint? miser? these are terms applied to people that leave 50 cent tips on $25 meals, or try to cheat every salesperson they deal with, a far cry from a person who will buy a kit and bash it to ultra-realism for $8.00, conversely, if you have far too much money and believe everyone else is in the same economic position as you(we aren't) don't admonish someone who can only afford $8.00 kits, they are not cheapskates. living within your means is not a crime yet, and it takes restraint and upbringing not to purchase every expensive thing you see even if you can afford to. you will have exactly(if not more) enjoyment remaking an old oiltank car into a firefighting unit. remember, when someone calls you a cheapskate, it is NOT a compliment !

[agaga]

Second to all the above comments. The hobby is being priced out of the range of the average , younger (new) model railroader. in turn this may reduce the growth of the hobby which ultimately will decrease the demand for both the higher priced models and
the blue boxes. Look at the trend for membership in the NMRA. Look at the recent sales (special inventory reductions } for higher priced models.

[Anonymous]

BLW rules for N!!!!! Discount Trains Online has also saved me $100s. I model N and dont go above $15 for rolling stock unless its something really nice or a passenger car. I loved the detail on the new MT autoracks, but nearly died when I saw the $32 pricetag at my LHS.
My job now is making things a little easier, but it is still quite expensive. Work and Christmas got me 4 nice kato BNSF diesels though

[dragenrider]

If you are a cheapskate, then so am I! I think charging above $15.00 for a RTR kit is piracy [oX)] ! I will not spend $25.00 on a car. In my mind that equals over $100.00 for four measly cars (tax, remember). Here's one way of looking at it--how many hours of work do I have to put in to bring home $100.00 after taxes?

Nope, not me! I'll scrounge train shows, hobby shop closets and Ebay and I will pick up all the Athearn BB, Accurail, and Roundhouse/MDC stuff I can find. Superb detail is not important to me. Solid build and good quality vs. value is!


I'll get off my soapbox now! [soapbox] As you can tell, frugality is important to me, even in my hobby. [2c]

[egmurphy]

QUOTE: The hobby is being priced out of the range of the average , younger (new) model railroader.

I hear that a lot but I'm not convinced it's necessarily true. No doubt there's a lot of high priced equipment out there these days. And I don't doubt that prices on a lot of stuff is high. If you want the best locos, the most detailed rolling stock, the latest electronics, dcc, sound, etc, it's no doubt pricey.

But I didn't have that stuff when I started out in the hobby years ago, and I don't think that every modeler who starts now has to have it either. Nothing wrong with starting with more popularly priced equipment, kits (if available), regular old sectional track and manual switches, and a few toggle switches if you want block control. Scratch build structures, they don't have to be perfect. Scenery can be done relatively inexpensively. How about purchasing used equipment and either upgrading, reconditioning, adding detail if you want, or just running as is?

It's easy to let "wants" get to be "needs", but I think you can start and build a layout on a budget. An empire costs more, but we're talking about starting out. As modelers get older, and earn more, they have more money available for newer, better or just plain more stuff.

Obviously, jmho. Your mileage may vary.

Regards

Ed

[grayfox1119]

I think what we may be seeing here is the "I want it NOW" generation speaking. It takes "time" to build something worthwhile, step by step, one piece at a time. Take pride with every new thing you save up for, or build. Things were pricey for me back in 1949 when I was 10 too. I wondered how I ever was going to build a layout when all I could earn was $2 a week cutting grass...and that was only during the growing season. All the guys my age can tell you, Lionel accessories back in 1949 were FAR from cheap, and cars? It would take me weeks to afford ONE car.
Of course no one likes to spend $20 to $25 on a freight car today, so you shop around and do the best you can with the money you have. And over time, you will build your line. Patience.........

[Anonymous]

QUOTE: Originally posted by htgguy
Am I a Cheapskate?

Nah, more likely you're a a "discerning buyer."

[htgguy]

Thanks for all the replies. I don't feel as alone as I did. Sometimes when reading message boards and hearing about people who are anxiously awaiting 4 of the newest loco @ $100 per or who are pulling 25-40 car unit trains of grain hoppers or coal gons that cost $20 and up each, I have wondered if I belong in this hobby with my as it was stated "frugal" taste. I see others share this outlook.

Now, can anyone tell me if Athearn kits are really hard for dealers to get or if they just don't want to stock inexpensive alternatives in order to drive sales of the RTR stuff? I have a hard time finding an easy to browse selection of inexpensive kits. Also, any comments on the Accurail line of kits? I have seen them in some of the magazines at a reasonable price.

[CP5415]

Athearn Kits are not hard to come by,
My LHS has about 100 of them instock right now & he's forever keeping the shelves stocked with new ones, that are available.

As for being cheap, you all are talking with someone who won't spend the $ for an Atlas or Kato locomotive.
I don't think I'm cheap, I just don't want to spend that kind of money on a locomotive that's all.
The $20= freight car is a bit to swallow as well but if it's a car that will fit with what I want for my layout then I'll fork out the bucks.

Gordon

[jwr_1986]

I by definition am not a cheapskate. I'm willing to pay for quality but I can't stand when you pay alot for an item and it doesn't work as expected. I'm on a very limited budget (Student) so 25 a car is very pricey but if there is something I really want I'll budget for it. I also own no credit cards so I can't go into debt because of the hobby.

Jesse

[Morpar]

During the early stages of the Horizon takeover of Athearn, my LHS did have supply issues with Athearn. That has all changed now. He is able to get the newest R-T-R and the old Blue Box line as they are produced. I know when I was in there Friday after the dentist he had just gotten a shipment in of Blue Box and had not had the time to put them out yet. The only issue thus far seems to be when are certain items going to be produced. The supply chain seemed to get emptied out during the takeover, and it is going to take a while for everything to get back to "normal". I haven't tried the Accurail line, so I can't comment on them.

As an aside, I managed to pick up 50" Detail West boxcar for $5.75 on one of my last trips to the LHS. Some of his P2K kits are between $8-9, and there was a Walther's Airslide hopper for $6-something. All hope is not lost, just can't buy the newest stuff!

[jrbernier]

I hate the idea of super high priced freight cars, but if the car is correct and of high quality - I may but it. I just spent $32 for a Kadee Milw PS-2 covered hopper. At least I got it for about $10 off the MSRP.
I used to have about 300-400 Athearn/MDC type kits that I had painted/detailed/decaled/weathered. They looked very good(for 20-30 years ago), but were not correct all the time. Better, more accurate cars became available. Most of those old cars have been sold off, and I have been building high-end cars like Intermountain/P2K/Red Caboose. These cars are accurate and I now have about 100 cars that are correct for my layout. I have even been kit-bashing/upgrading some older cars with new roof walks and detail parts if they will result in a fairly accurate model.
The prices are higher(and some times all you can get is RTR), but the average income level is much higher as well. We keep thinking about the 1770 price for an Athearn 'BB' and now we want cars that are better, but still think in those 1970 'BB' dollars......

Jim Bernier

[Anonymous]

QUOTE: Originally posted by Morpar

Since I am a cheapskate myself, I have no problem saying YES, you are a cheapskate! I personally think the prices for the current R-T-R stuff are WAY TOO HIGH!!! I have a problem spending more than $10 for a freight car myself. Yes, I too have a couple of expensive cars, but most of mine are Athearn blue box, followed by modified Tyco, then MDC. I think for the occasional car, over $10 is fine, but for the majority of my fleet, the cheaper stuff is just fine. I personally prefer to have more cars than better detailed cars for the norm.

The saving grace is that my LHS doesn't raise the prices from what he paid for stuff. I could go in there Monday and pick up an Athearn 86" flatcar for under $5 (and I have too)! He has a decent stock of older Athearn and MDC that is still for sale reasonably. I am not really up to date on the modern stuff, so his selection is fine with me. The new stuff he has is going for the new prices. You might also watch E-bay, I have gotten some good deals by buying groups of cars, then selling or trading what I don't want. Good luck.

I'm with Morpar. Sounds like exactly what I do.

[Anonymous]

My approach to freight cars is similar to how I handle scenery.

I begin by putting a large number of 'passable-looking' BB and similarly-priced freight cars on my pike to have somewhat long trains. Then, as the money becomes available, I'll buy one or two of the higher-priced precision-detailed cars to replace the older ones. Just like I add more detail to my structures (vents, gutters, interior lighting etc.) a little at a time.

Maybe in 15-20 years I'll have a world-class layout. But I want to enjoy running trains today.

[Anonymous]

I lean toward Ken's approach - at present, transition-era freight cars on my layout are mostly Athearn BB, as those were the first cars I encountered in HO, so I bought quite a few due to the low prices. Now, I'm more inclined to spend larger amounts for higher-quality - slowly replacing the Athearn cars (which still look good in a long train, I just plan to buy a few high-quality ones so they don't stick out alongside newer locos). I'll still buy BB though, as there are some cars there that nobody else has - still keeping my eyes open for one of their 4-truck heavy duty flatcars for example, I know it's not a specific prototype but it should look good parked in the "workshop" area I plan to build in a future extension. Kadee's boxcars and hoppers are truly amazing models and work out around the same price as a fair to middling UK outline wagon - when prices are compared you're lucky to get anything for much less than £10 new these days (works out around $20 at current rates). My point here is that while prices are climbing, modelling US prototypes in HO still represents great value for money compared to prices in the rest of the world.

[htgguy]

Thanks again for all the input. Apparently the blue box kits are still out there, just waiting for me to find them. Since it is 90 miles to the nearest hobby shop, any input into a good place to buy them online? I have ordered from Standard Hobby and Trainworld in the past and been very pleased with the results from both of them. Any others I should be trying?

[Anonymous]

$15 is usually my limit for both N and HO.

[Anonymous]

heheh, the titile of this thread made me laugh.

Anyway all my railroading endevours are financed by myself so I rarely spend more than $10 for any type of car. My local hobby shop (2miles away, lucky me (^_^)
has a large selection of Accurail sets wich I really like, good quality and made in the US!

Modelling the SP&S has made it hard to only put out about $10 per car. So I bought a very expensive passenger car, once! And it just sits there...looking nice as i couldnt afford to buy two...

[Anonymous]

QUOTE: Originally posted by JCtrain



Anyway all my railroading endevours are financed by myself

That quote would have sounded very odd had I not mentioned that im 15yrs old.....

[Morpar]

Only 2 miles from the LHS would NOT be lucky for me! I would be even more broke, and I would need to get a part-time job there! Of course, my wife would probably leave me then, so....... anyone want to start a hobby shop north of Frankfort, Indiana??!!

[Anonymous]

I am very fortunate to live on the Gulf Coast of Fl. (retirement capitol of the world). As the Seniors pass away, their kids discard their elders model trains. Usually, they go directly to an LHS and get "best offer" from the strore owner. The owner, in turn, passes the savings on in the form of a "bargain table." I have found many quality items from power packs to rare cars, locos, etc. at huge savings. Garage sales are another good scource for some great finds in model railroading. I'm not the adventurist type to search out garage and yard sales but if one is close by, I'll "go for it." Anytime you may visit Florida, by all means drop by the nearest LHS. You will be amazed at some of the castaway items found there and delighted with the savings. Mind you, these items are sold "as is." Best of luck.

[JohnT14808]

I'm with Ted....garage sales, estate sales, and local train shows. As long as it fits in with my layout and it isn't TOO cheesy, kiddy looking, I'll buy a second hand car instead of spending the big bucks for a RTR from the catalog.... Besides, with a little weathering and detailing, that cheap car could pass for a $25 rig........

[Anonymous]

NO! You're like me, just not willing to spend a days wages on something you don't absolutely have to have! Not having that plastic boxcar tomorrow won't kill you, but that money could also go into your gas tank to take you to work. Is that cheaper? Cheap is when you won't even spend the money on your hobby at all.

[Jetrock]

My idea of a "ready-to-run freight car" is a used one selling for $2-5 at a local train show! Sure, I'll replace the wheels with Intermountains and the couplers with Kadees (if it hasn't already) but heck, I have to do that with most of the kits I buy anyhow.

There are things to spend money on--locomotives, for instance--if you have to. Freight cars can be bought on the cheap if you're willing to do a little bit of work--and can run well if you spend a couple more bucks on good wheelsets and couplers.

I'm a cheapskate, but not to the point of diminishing return--I may order the cheapest thing on the menu, but I'll leave a 25% tip. Because the next time I go there I'll probably get great service!