22" radius

[dwRavenstar]

He sits, the day's last cigarette smoldering between his fingers, staring at the package. Tomorrow is the day he delivers the manuscript to his editor. Three years and a few thousand cups of coffee downed over endless hours of conversation with veteran and necomer railroad modelers have culminated in those several hundred pages, wrapped in brown paper on his kitchen table.

Stories and ideas, tips and shortcuts the like he had never encountered before, all organized and collated for the use of a hoped for reader. The editors would talk of prospective numbers, possible sales, cash flow and the bottom line but he will be thinking of that one guy, sitting in his train sanctuary, beaming with delight because he'd found the answer, discovered the tip, solved the riddle. His dream can be accomplished, his vision can become a reality. They had to publish his work, they must make the information available to those who weren't present when the conversations and arguments were ongoing. The wealth of information captured on those pages for now exists only in the minds and memories of the folks who'd been there and done that. The answers to questions that aren't yet found between covers, have yet to be featured in the magazines and would have remained locked in obscurity had he not accepted another cup of three mule coffee and vaguely muttered the phrase "is there any way to........."

The publishers would have to let him follow through. This stuff is important. This stuff has to be made available to those in need.

Sipping his now cold coffee, he logs on to his most recent forum of choice. There it is again, some poor sap with a question looking for a solution. I'm an author, he wants to say. Read my book and you will also know how, why and for just how little scratch your dream can blossom. Aw, screw it, he thinks. He wouldn't even have a clue to the answer if old Joe, mechanic and back in the day fireman for the now long past Pennsy had stopped with his shrewd smile and not told him the story of his eleventh layout, the one he and a couple of now passed buddies had tossed up in the back room of their HO locomotive repair shop.

After crushing his smoke in the ashtray he clicks the submit reply button and begins typing "Hey rockcrusher, that's a very good question and I hope I can give you an equally good answer."

What the hell he muses, better to give this guy a freebie while he can. Chances are the publishers will deep six the manuscript for a year till they can see a way to make it profitable and rockcrusher could have thrown up his arms in disgust and taken up birdwatching by then.

With any luck he'll still be railfanning when the manuscript is finally on the shelves, whenever that comes to pass.

(Just food for thought folks. How many of you have enough information and experience to help someone else but far less than it would take to fill even a pamphlet? Always ask, always work toward bettering your skills and ALWAYS have fun doing it. Hey, if I'm nuts for running model trains through a world I've created with my own ten thumbs then those folks who chase little white balls across the pasture in those goofy carts must be insane!!!!)

[:)] Nuff said.

dwRavenstar

[Anonymous]

Once again I am being made out the heavy in this dialog! Why is this? I gave Mr. jlcjrbal good advice and never said or even aluded to his not asking questions on this forum. I told him where I thought the best advice was located and I'm convinced this is still one of the best answers givin him! He appears to be just starting out. He needs lots of information! A book written by someone whom has decades of experiance, can communicate well, is proof read by the publishers, has ample photos and drawings on how to proceed, hurts him how?

[jlcjrbal]

You guys a re crazy!!!! You can never get enough info unless you ask, and sometimes it is the obvious questions that need to be asked over and over. I can not tell you how much I enjoy reading this forum and after dealing with the Brain Trust where I work... you guys make my evening, well the wife does most of the time LOL Joseph

[TurboOne]

Joseph, glad you are asking questions, keep asking. I learned a lot by asking simple questions that probably have been asked a thousand times. MOST folks here were very nice and answered my silly questions.

I own most of the MRR books for beginners, and sorry to say, I am not stuck in 1955. In the year 2005 there are so many new things to this hobby. DCC control, lights on the trains and along the track, wireless control, sound, and higher quality. MOST of the standby books don't cover the new stuff, as it wasn't even out when they wrote them. I have all the Atlas books, most of MRRs books, and some no name books, if and when they updated for DCC wiring, much is left out. Asking questions here save a lot of time for us newbies. [:)] I also own old 1960s MRR helpful books, but they even talk about using asbestos for mountains. The internet has everything. The knowledge of the posters here is great.

When people write their postings it is hard to tell if they are answering like a teacher, or attacking. The hard part of computers is there is no body language to help you gauge if the person talking is helping or hurting. Maybe when we all post, we need to reread what we typed and see if we come across as unwelcome. I always have felt very welcomed here and because of that, I have cleaned a garage out, built benchwork, laid track, and have some trains running. I have DCC that is growing, and can even do minor repair to my trains. All because of this forum. Thanks guys. [:)] [:)] [:)]

For those of you that haven't seen them, I have been to a few hobby shops in my travels that don't have track. I get different reasons why, but it seems to be common. I went to a shop in Las Vegas, and he had 2 #6 switches. 1 left, 1 right. I bought them, but I don't know how a person survives without inventory.

I hope Joseph you keep asking questions, knowing that you get all kinds of answers. The knowledge here is great, and we all love trains, some just may come across different than when they speak in person. [:)] If you are just getting started, check out http://www.thortrains.net/index.html as a great source for more info.

Take care all, and lets play nice. We all like or love trains. [8D] [8D] [8D]

Tim

[jrbernier]

22" radius sectional track is available, and 'Ribbonrail' makes nifty metal templates for alighing the curves.
'Roadbed' track is available from several manufacturers - I have some Bachmann EZ Track with 22" radius curves on my 'L' shaped workstation.

Jim Bernier

[Anonymous]

People have "relying solely on books" for hundreds of years. There weren't any "severe limitations" that I remember then or now from reading a book. The internet hasn't made books obsolete yet.

jlcljbar, take DeSchane's and Don Gibson's advice and go buy a few books. Maybe an Atlas track plans beginners book, a wiring beginners book and a scenery book. Then go to the various track manufacturers web sites and see what they have to offer. Then maybe go visit a hobby shop and at least look at what you're trying to buy (they probably have many catalogs that would help you too). You may even see a better or different way to solve your radius problem.

Don Gibson is right. Everybody makes track approximately that radius, if not exactly that radius.

If you're uncomfortable with flex track, use sections.

Nobody's discouraging him from asking questions. There are just some questions new guys can solve themselves by having the book in front of them, or maybe going shopping. I wired my first layout with the above mentioned Atlas wiring book right in front of me, and got my trackplan from one of their beginner's HO trackplan books, and I haven't looked back.

j, you'd probably save $100 by investing $50 in how-to-manuals.


m

[Anonymous]

look around 22" radius is out there. I have it on my Eastern RR

[DSchmitt]

I have seen curve templates for sale in hobby shops. I don't remember who made them.

[Leon Silverman]

Relying solely on books have severe limitations:
One problem with looking in books is understanding the question. You have to understand the topic sufficiently to know what book to look in or even what subject to look under.
You have to have access to that book when you have the question.
Whether a book is written for "beginners" or "professionals" it is limited by the fact that it usually has only one explanation. If you cannot understand that explanation, your stuck. I once took a course in automatic controls that was taught by the author of the course's text. If you asked the profesor to explain something from the book, he simply repeated the term you couldn't understand to begin with.
I retaught myself engineering math after being out of school for almost ten years by consulting two different math texts and Schaum's Outlines. This provided me with three sources of explanation of the same information.
Posing a question on this forum usually offers a lot more than three explanations at no extra cost since the participant has already paid for his internet access.
Any book, no matter how complete, can contain only a limited amount of information. The information available on the internet in general, not just this forum, is nearly infinite.
Nobody should be discouraged from asking a question here. There may be some stupid or ill informed answers offered, but there's no guarantee any one book is going to provide all the answers. It might provide just enough information to still get a person in over their heads. A little bit of knowlege is a dangerous thing. That maybe all a beginner' book may provide.

[Don Gibson]

QUOTE: In my search for this size track I have found none. I am not quite sure how to go about getting 22" or even larger."

EVERYBODY MAKES 22" R SECTIONAL TRACK.- BACHMANN, KATO, LIFE LIKE, PECO, ATLAS, TRU SCALE, MODEL POWER.

Because it fits on a 4x8 plywood sheet.

WHERE ARE YOU LOOKING? any LOCAL HOBBY SHOP that sells trains has it.
WHAT are you going to do when you search for something that's hard to find? ??.

[Anonymous]

DuShane has his opinion and so do others. There is more than one way to skin a cat and this fourm provides many ideas. Reading books and magazines is good and helpful, but they still are only the writers opinion. jlcjrbal , keep asking questions on this forum. Others will learn too from the answers

[dwRavenstar]

That's not Calculus, it's simple Algebra.
"were trying to help" looked more like you were sending him on his way and offering nothing. The jist of my advice was to establi***he placement of the track, how he gets there is his own business. As far as the calculations I hardly think that having the dimensions handed to him already figured is going to cause any cerebral difficulties.

He can ignore or accept either, both or neither of our thoughts.

Your effort has certainly displayed the risk to a respondent that a posted request for information or help might create. As I'd said, listen to all or none but follow your own head into the task. I really fail to comprehend how a question from a fellow modeller can be so quickly denegrated into a platform for an attack. Guess it's like everything else in life, you gotta consider the source.

Dave

[Anonymous]

Dave (dwRavenstar), I really was trying to help Mr. jlcjrbal! What are you doing?

Calculus to figure how long to make a section of track! Pre soldering flex-track together before bending! The first is un-necessary and overkill, the second won't work! Come on, were trying to help Mr. jlcjrbal, not make his head explode!

Mr. jlcjrbal, this is an example of what I mean by all the variing opinions!

[dwRavenstar]

jlcjrbal

Though I have indeed never written a book on the subject I have jotted notes in the margins several times.
If I were you (a condition contrary to fact and therefore requiring the past subjective tense) I would drill a small hole at the one inch mark of a wooden yardstick and another at the twenty-three inch mark of same. Establi***he end points of your radius (keeping in mind that the measurement for a full 180 degrees is 44 inches from rail center to center) and mark the origin of the circle at the appropriate point. Place a small nail or some other stable point through the yardstick at the one inch hole you'd drilled and use it to pin the yardstick to your origin point. Put a pencil or some other marking device through the second hole and with a sweeping motion scribe the center line of your arc between the end points you'd established. Lay your cork roadbed along that scribed line and lay the soldered pieces of flex track using that as your guide.

The circumference of the circle will yield the length of your flex track assembly. Calculate that measurement using the formula {diameter X Pi} with Pi established as 3.14159. A twenty-two inch radius circle has a diameter of forty-four inches and a circumference of 138.22 inches. Your flex track assembly for a half circle would measure roughly 69 inches. For other than a half circle you calculate assembly length by finding the percentage of the circle you require (desired degrees/360) and multiplying that result against 138.22 inches.

BTW I believe the cover of the textbook I learned this from during my electronics engineering studies was green. No undue offense intended DeSchane but often times those who write books on a subject have done reference in other sources and pass it along to their readers with their own voice.

Use the forum as a reference tool but always remember that the knowledge offered has it's source rooted either in books the respondent has researched or from instruction that a person of experience has shared with someone else who'd had the same question. That said, some of what you're told will be opinion and you have to use your own head when it comes to putting it into practice.

Dave (dwRavenstar)

[Anonymous]

Dear Mr. jlcjrbal,
Although there are good people on this forum, whom always seem to be willing to help beginners, from my point of view, you should be attempting to educate yourself about this hobby through the use of books and other reading materials. The questions you've asked are common and very good questions! However, they are better answered by experts whom have gone to the trouble of writing books on these subjects. Go to your hobby shop and look for one of the many books written for beginners. Since there are many, page through a few and see if one stands out as making more sense to you on how to proceed. Kalmbach Publishing (the publisher of Model Railroader Magazine) is a great publisher of these types of books! An on going and current article taking place in Model Railroader Mag. now, is addressed at beginners and will also be very helpful! It is entitled; "The Turtle Creek Central Extension".

The problem with asking these types of questions on this forum is, for every person whom answers your question, you will likely get a different opinion on how to proceed. Since few (if any) of these people have ever written an article for beginners, their ability to express themselves and convey their thoughts to you will be questionable! You are better off taking your information from a single source, someone whom knows enough about the subject, but, also knows how to communicate his thoughts and ideas to you in book form! After you have experiance, you can experiment with different modeling ideas.

I say the above, not intending to step on anyone’s ego! I think if you all think about it, you will agree there are better places for Mr. jlcjrbal to get this formative information and that he can get all this information and considerably more in the many books on the subject!

[IRONROOSTER]

The secret to using sectional track is to make sure the joints are lined up correctly and you don't get a kink . The easiest way to check this is to put your eye down at track level and sight through the joint. It should look like a smooth curve through the joint. When deciding where to lay the track you can use the track itself as a template or cut some cardboard templates. Remember that radius is measured to the centerline of the track.
Enjoy
Paul

[jlcjrbal]

So just buy a few peices to give yourselve a guide or I just thaught of getting a peice of cardboard and just cutting out a 22 or 24' circle to help with the curve. I want to mske it asy so when I am ready fro my benchwork I can just go with it.. Joseph

[CP5415]

I used several pieces of Atlas 22" radius sectional track soldered together to make a 22" radius curve out of flextrack.

Gordon

[jlcjrbal]

Is there a special guide to ensure a 22 or 24' radius??

[Anonymous]

Joseph,
Atlas, Bachmann, Lifelike and Kato all make 22" radius sectional track with built in roadbed, available at many on line suppliers and in many hobby shops. At least Atlas (and probably several others) also sell 22" radius sectional track without the roadbed, which should also be available on line and in the hobby shops. In your area, I would suggest that you try M.B. Klein, AKA Model Train Stuff to fill your need. You can check them out online at http://www.modeltrainstuff.com or at http://www.mbklein.com then navigate the menus on the left to find your track.

The other option you have is to use flexible track (on cork or foam roadbed, if desired). This allows an infinite number of possibilities for your track plan. You can bend it to almost any radius you could ever model on your layout (down to about 15" radius for some brands). Flex track is available from Atlas, Model Power and Peco, at least, I'm sure other suppliers offer it, too.

Most of the above options are available in code 83 and code 100 track, and even some in code 70. The exception to this is the "roadbed" track, which is generally only offered in one rail size per manufacturer.

[jlcjrbal]

Sorry HO scale

[cefinkjr]

Order 22" radius, as ericsp suggested, or... buy flex track and curve it yourself. One word of caution however: you'll get a much smoother curve if you solder enough pieces of flex track for the entire curve together before bending them. Otherwise, the last couple of inches either side of each joint won't have the same curvature as the rest of the curve -- those last couple of inches just don't want to bend and rail joiners alone aren't strong enough to force the rail to bend. The worst case scenario (if you don't solder the joints before hand) is a nasty kink at the joint and you'll have lots of derailments there.

Try it. You'll like it. [:)]
Chuck

[ericsp]

If you are modeling HO scale, it should be easy, you must be modeling in N scale. I guess N scale would be more difficult. Order online or have the hobby shop that you go to order it. Use Walther's website to findout what companies make it.

[jlcjrbal]

In my search for this size track I have found none. I am not quite sure how to go about getting 22" or even larger. I do know I can not do it with 18" track. I know this is a pretty easy question but I just need a little direction.. Joseph

PS I am modeling HO